REA v. Mastro

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Today all REA bidders received an email from REA apologizing for some having received catalogues that had a Mastro return address. REA again made very clear that it believes that its practices are polar from those employed at Mastro:

"It would be hard to communicate exactly how disturbing we find this
particular error. Robert Edward Auctions has absolutely no affiliation
with Mastro Auctions whatsoever. We are very different companies with
very different policies. Robert Edward Auctions would hate to have
anyone be confused about this."

This statement follows REA's note at the beginning of its catalogue in which it clearly notes that unlike other auction houses it does: not have its employees bid on items; not allow consignors to bid on their own items; not purchase items to be sold at its auctions; it does not alter cards in any manner; it has never broken a card out of a holder for resubmission purposes.

Clearly, at least to me, some of this directly refers to Mastro and Doug Allen's comments on this board about what Mastro does to some cards it receives for sale at auction.

At leat to me, I'm impressed with REA's practices. I think that REA's "Honest Auto Bid" combined with its stated lack of conficts, refusal to alter or crack cards, and lower Buyer's Premium really does indicate that it is doing things the right way. Will Mastro at least agree to stop altering cards in any way and adopt the same bidding system? Or does it not make a difference? Is REA going to be rewarded in any way for its honesty and (in my opinion) better business practices? Or does whoever gets the better consignments get the most business, period?

I can tell you that I've stopped bidding at all auction houses but 4 at this point.

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Posted By: leon

I firmly believe that cards trump almost everything else. Everyone can say what they want to, but for the most part, if the auction/venue has cards that folks need they will bid. There are definitely some people that won't bid due to their "moral" belief, but the majority will. Personally, I don't have an issue with Mastro's stated policies or REA's stated policies. I think they are both fine auction houses. I believe I have placed ceiling bids in both auctions that were not bumped to the top. Also, I don't think any auction house is perfect...contrary to what some believe. I bid in almost every auction that has cards I want.....This is a very debatable subject and I am sure there are many views contrary to mine.


*My guess is that the prices realized in each auction will be indicative of the card and not the venue.

regards

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Posted By: Frank Evanov

I too will only bid with 4 auction houses...Mastro and REA are 2 of them. Leon is right, so to avoid temptation I don't peruse catalogs or websites of those "other guys." It usually works.

Frank

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Posted By: Jim Clarke

Yup.. I agree with the above mentioned. The cards will bring in the prices most of the time. Smaller auction companies might get over looked where you can make small finds. I think it is wise to get all auction company catalogs to find what you are looking for. I would even go out of my way and bid from Mr. Mint himself if he had something I REALLY wanted.

Since I love card collecting so much, I can no way sell items privately. It's hard to do trades even for me. I will say that if I was an auction house, I would stay far away from the board because you will never win in the public opinion poll. Plus I would ban all the bidders that speak up and talk negative and stir the pot without trying to fix it privately first. Then we'll see more people pipe down before going public. Now I know that is the WRONG thing to do, but it sure would feel good. Then all the people that say they will never bid with a company again will NEVER BID WITH THEM AGAIN.

JC

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Jim, for the same reason the BPs keep rising is the same reason that will never happen - $$$$. And as Frank and I can attest, with REA and Mastro in our 4 houses that we bid with we're not missing that much.

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Posted By: peter chao

So did REA or Mastro have the better auction.

Peter

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Posted By: barrysloate

Better by what measure?

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Posted By: peter chao

Barry,

So what do you think, which auction had the rarest cards.

Peter

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Posted By: Jason L

that is a great question.
How do you measure the success of an auction?
aside from the obvious Total dollars bid/realized, what other metrics are measured to guage an auction's success/health?
# of bidders
# of bids
# of items
Median dollar amount realized per lot?
# of categories
Avg # of bids per lot

????

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Posted By: MVSNYC

for me it's pretty simple...

mastro's = high grade
REA = rarity

that is not to say that REA doesn't have high grade cards (i bought the lot of 3 PSA 9oc T206's)...and of course i am not suggesting that mastro's doesn't have rare cards...but pound for pound, REA stands out with ultra rare cards, and mastro's with many many high grade pieces...

i like doug & i like robert, and i bid in both auctions, at the end of the day, they are BOTH winners (i.e. outstanding catalogs, great service, and record breaking sales)...

it's like asking who is better, ferrari or bentley?

both high caliber companies, two different purposes...vanilla/chocolate

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Posted By: barrysloate

REA specializes in historical artifacts that relate to the early years of the game.

Mastro has more high end cards and set registry stuff.

Each auction house has its own personality. It depends on what you collect. Both were successful and had very good results.

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Posted By: jay wolt

"Each auction house has its own personality. It depends on what you collect"

Barry that's an interesting take but not sure I agree.
As the auction houses really don't pick & choose the high $
cards & memorabilia they offer.
We as buyers certainly choose where to bid, but I suppose
both Auction houses would be happy to have any high $ lot
pertaining to sports in their auction.
Both REA & Mastro would take a Cap Anson batting trophy, a Musial jersey
or a T206 Plank. So perhaps next April when they go head to head
again the lots may differ as REA may have more cards & Mastro more
memorabilia.

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Posted By: Bob

Immediately after the auction in REA closed I was puzzled by what seemed to be a bid situation in which the bid on the item I was bidding on semed to jump straight to my maximum "honest-auto bid." I emailed REA and Rob Lifson immediately emailed me back with the info which satisfied me and explained how it happened. I thought that quick and thorough response was indicative of REA's striving for professionalism and insured that I would bid again in their auctions, so 2 thumbs up to REA for their great customer service.
tbob

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Posted By: T206Collector

...I enjoyed my experience with both equally. They both offered what I was looking for (a T206 Plank), and I got one from Mastro on Friday night so I did not bid on the one in REA on Saturday night.

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Posted By: boxingcardman

Got my consignment payment already from REA. That's one "metric" that really counts to me...

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Posted By: Joe D.

REA's catalog is something I really enjoy going though.

They seem to consistently have the stuff that I marvel at most.


Don't get me wrong - Mastro has very cool stuff....
but REA seems to have the stuff that makes me go 'wow'.

Can't way to receive my lone pickup.


I agree with Barry... they each seem to have their own personality.
REA's niche seems to be right in my wheelhouse.

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Posted By: MVSNYC

Joe D-

"...my wheelhouse". cool analogy...

when are we doing dinner or drinks again?

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I have yet to ever win anything from Mastro, but REA's service was very fast. I made my payment and they had to have shipped it out on the same day. Fed Ex tracking the whole way.

And I agree with Barry that REA specializes in the early history and artifacts of the game moreso than Mastro, but this years REA offerings was much more heavy on cards than I can ever remember. According to most of my memorabilia friends the offerings this year in both auctions were less than they've come to expect.

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Posted By: leon

I think both give great service. I messed up a bid in Mastro and Doug helped me (I was high bidder and still was high bidder but messed up a max). I had a question in REA and Rob helped me. Both had great items...I bid in both quite a few times. This time I won a few things in REA and was only bridesmaid in Mastro. I am sure I will bid in both again. .I do have to be honest and say that the the fact Mastro sets up at the National and is more social does give me a little nod toward them for some things. I have consigned to both before and probably will again. When I was at the National last year the fact that Mastro was there is the reason they got a decent 5 figure consignment from me. If this hobby is a little about camaraderie then Mastro gets the nod. I don't want to dis Rob either....No one is more polite and professional, or quicker to call back and/or respond, than he is.......regards

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Posted By: barrysloate

Jay- I disagree. I believe consignors of rare and historical material go to Rob primarily. I think people with PSA 8 and 9 cards go to Mastro first. Go through REA's catalog and count the number of 19th century memorabilia lots. Then go to the Mastro catalog and do the same. The numbers will be starkly different, and it is no coincidence.

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Posted By: Dylan

While i agree with the statement above that both auctions houses will take a highly prized piece of memorabilia or card for consignment perhaps REA has developed relationships with certain memorbilia collectors, while mastro has with registry collectors. Who knows? While I may prefer some of REA's business practices I can't help but be impressed by the amount of auctions with high quality material Mastro puts out.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I think Rob knows the early history of baseball (pre-1870) better than any auctioneer, and by a wide margin. And I think sophisticated 19th century collectors know that.

It has nothing to do with business models. In that respect Mastro Auctions is state of the art. But in the niche of pre-league baseball, Rob has a better grasp of the history than anyone else. I like to think of myself as pretty high up that food chain, but Rob is my mentor (although he does call me for information when he is writing up early lots).

I repeat, each auction house has its own personality.

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Posted By: Steve Murray

Received my Mastro item Wednesday after the auction closed.

Received my REA item today and my check hasn't even cleared yet.

While I love both items the REA e107 Powers is by far the finest SGC 20 you will ever see.

I was ver pleased with both auction houses.

P.S. I'm using my PCCollector login because I ran out of picture storage on jacklitsch.

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Posted By: ScottIngold

REA is tops in my book. Followed by Mastro and Goodwin. I havent bid in any of Barry' yet but i will next time. That is my list of who i trust with my $'s.

But as for a favorite.....REA hands down. All of the above mentioned as well as personal.
Example: The tax on my invoice was off by well over 500.00 or so. Rob calls and leaves a message and adds that the package still went out and to remit a check at my convieance (sp ? Barry ?) Thats service and that means something to me who only spends in the 10k range on these auctions.
I would understand if i was a big shot. But having that kind of repore being a little shot means something in my book.

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Posted By: Andrew

REA may offer a bit more selection of rarity and Mastro more of high grade, but do you think such collectors stay away from either auction? That is, I wonder what percentage only browse and/or bid with one house and not the other? Some might say zero percent because if you browse, you're likely to bid. However, I browse various auction houses, but only bid with a few. So unless you have ethical concerns about either company, I wonder from a bidder perspective how important it is that either REA or Mastro have a niche?

For the scoresheet:
Customer Service = REA (mainly applies to Rob, others who answer phones are no better/worse than Mastro)

Shipping accomodation = REA
Selection = Mastro
Consigner fees = REA
Turnaround payment/shipping = same
Auctions per year = Mastro (I prefer two, the offerings don't seem to suffer because of it)
Higher hammer price = same so far, but I'm sure this is the core of the debate



"Take your life in your own hands and what happens? A terrible thing: no one to blame." -- Erica Jong

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Posted By: Alan

I agree with Barry. One thing that you have to remember is that Mastro has a huge staff & REA is just Rob & maybe a few others (?) so you might tend to get personal service more from REA. However, as Leon pointed out, REA doesn't set up at the National. I wish they would too.

Now, I was extremely impressed that Bill Mastro himself took the time to come to my car in the parking lot during a show to look at my stuff for possible consignment. And, even though it wasn't "Mastro worthy", he never degrated me or my collectibles.

Another thing to keep in mind is that REA concentrates more or less on baseball cards & memorabilia whereas Mastro has thicker sections for all sports cards & memorabilia.

These are the two best sports auction houses in the business, so arguments will be endless...

Alan

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Posted By: Dylan

I received SCP's auction catalog last year but didn't bid on any items. It looked like they put out a high quality catalog. How do you guys feel they match up to REA and Mastro?

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Posted By: Scot Reader

I know I am going to get myself in trouble here but isn't there an at least imperfect analogy between PSA/Mastro and SGC/REA?

Selection = Mastro/PSA
Customer Friendliness = REA/SGC
Accuracy = REA/SGC
Fees = REA/SGC
Hammer Price = Mastro/PSA

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Posted By: Wesley

Both REA and Mastro have comparable sale prices. I only wish Rob held more than one auction each year.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Scott- "convenience" and also try "rapport"

And also thanks for the kind words and support.

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Posted By: barrysloate

To Scot Reader- Mastro had the entire Carter collection graded by SGC, so there goes your theory.

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Posted By: T206Collector

Scot can obviously speak for himself, but he wasn't saying Mastro only uses PSA and REA only uses SGC. He was saying there was an analogy to be drawn -- PSA is to SGC as Mastro is to REA.

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Posted By: barrysloate

You're right Paul, I read it too quickly.

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Posted By: Mike

Interesting that the Carter cards went to SGC. Did they both bid on the collection? Could it be the Carter Collection went to SGC because the cards did not need pregrading work or they would have gone to PSA?

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Posted By: Richard Masson

My opinion is that Carter's collection went to SGC because they are more respected in vintage cards and they added pedigree (as they did with Nagy) to the labels. I don't think PSA and SGC bid for the business.

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Posted By: peter chao

Richard,

PSA added pedigree for the PSA 8 Gretzky/McNall Wagner, have you ever seen a stated company policy by a major grading company about adding this type of information.

Peter

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Posted By: Jeff Prizner

Pedigree Service
A service that will allow collectors to personalize their labels. For example, the "John Doe Collection" may appear on the PSA label. This will be offered on a case by case basis, reserved for “special” cards and/or sets that must meet certain high-end or rare criteria. Pedigree requests must be pre-approved prior to submission. Final approval is at PSA’s sole discretion. Please contact Customer Service for details and instructions.

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

'Do you always send out goods before you receive payment?


Julie Vognar

'Rumor has it that you very seldom stiff auction houses.'

Rob Lifson

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Posted By: Al S.

Now that the REA auction is over I want to give my opinion on REA v Mastro . REA has just finished my consignment lots 1218 -1224. For personal reasons I decided to put up large parts of my collection. I contacted REA for this item because of Robs expertise in the field of pins. I can tell you as for an auction house for this item I chose the right one. All my questions were answered rapidly and 99% of the time by Rob Himself. Having left out a picture of the back of the item in the catalog a quick phone call and there in the internet auction were pictures of the backs! The question was asked at the top of the thread would REA be rewarded for honest auto bid,policy changes,etc etc I think in the long run the answer will be YES. I think REA should consider running 2 auctions a year, the wait time is a bit long and in my opinion is losing consignments. As for Mastro auctions having sold and won items many times in Bills auction I think both auctions do a great job in promotion and in the distribution of catalogs. Many of us are like kids on christmas morning waiting for that catalog in the mail! Lets face it the bottom line is both companies are in business to try and bring the best items they can to the market place and in doing so some toes may get stepped on along the way! But as collectors just think what they have brought out to the market place in terms of items! I dont think there is a collection out there that hasnt benifited from these companies. I definetely would want both on my side as I continue to sell my collection! In closing I think its the company that is willing to make the hard adjustments and changes as the market constantly changes that will come out on top.