e102 Wagner fielding question

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Posted By: Brian McQueen

I was just wondering about other’s take on this card. From everything that I’ve heard, this card has a reputation for being very difficult. Do you think it is something that is common to this particular pose (ie…the e101 and e92 fielding poses also being scarce)? I know that fielding poses in e92, etc..command a significant premium over their “batting pose” counterparts from the same set. Or is the e102 Wagner fielding simply a card that, as it’s own entity, is very difficult to come by for whatever reason?

The second part of my question is this… the last e102 Wagner fielding card to be sold was in a 10 holder and went for slightly under $1500. By contrast, cards of Wagner in the same grade, but different sets that are much easier to find (ie..e90-2, m116 etc...) tend to go for twice this amount. Is there a reason for such a large difference in values? Are portraits of Wagner more desireable than his batting/throwing poses found in e98, e95, e92, etc?

Thanks much,
Brian
redmaccie@hotmail.com

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Posted By: peter ullman

i'm not familiar with the scarcity rationale for the e102 fielding card...other than I've heard it's tough! I believe any honus portraits resembling the pose on the t206 command a higher price...they're more desired!

pete ullman

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Posted By: Richard

Brian -

The E102 Wagner Fielding is actually a very common card. Whoever tells you otherwise is a goof

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Posted By: Andrew Parks

I completed the E102 set and had 50% of the T205 set finished at one time. My theory on the difficult variations in those sets are because of unfavorable poses. I think the cards were printed, people looked at them, and said, "That's an awful shot of [so and so]..." and then new cards were printed. For example, the four tough cards - variations - in the E102 set are:
Wagner Throwing, Doyle with Bat, Schmidt, and Miller Fielding

These four cards are not near as nice looking as their counterparts:
Wagner batting, Doyle throwing, Smith, and Miller Batting

Now let's look at the T205 cards:

Collins mouth open (one of the all-time worst pictures ever), Bresnahan mouth open, Wilkes one ear, Harmon one ear, Chase one ear and so on...are awful pictures of the player, as well...

The second card made of these players are much nicer looking. I don't believe this explains ALL difficult cards in sets, but that's my theory on some of the rare cards in the E102 and T205 sets.

I could be way off...but I wonder what others think...or KNOW!

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Posted By: Frank Wakefieldf

I think Andrew's idea is sound. And I'm a goof, 'cause I think the Wagner throwing is found less often than Wagner batting in E102.

One aspect of the price differences you mentioned is that you're comparing E102, a fairly unpopular set, with other sets. I think most collectors don't have any E102s. And that is considering all baseball card collectors. As for collectors who collect the pre-war stuff, most of those don't have E102s. And of the folks that do have E102s, they only have one or two of them as type cards. Some strikes against the set are that E cards are generally more worn, less pretty or slabbable; E102s are anonymous, no catchy brand name; Mathewson has an ugly pose; 2 Wagners to chase instead of 1; and they aren't up for sale with the frequency of other cards, such as that glorious white border tobacco card set.

Of the many E card sets, E102 is one of the few I will half-heartedly chase or look for on eBay. And that is mainly because years ago I bought a Wagner batting, Lajoie, and Collins all at the same time, my first E102 purchases. Instantly, I had a start at the set. And I've not taken that big of a step toward completing them since...

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Posted By: Richard

Brian -

My serious answer:

1) I believe that the Wagner batting and throwing poses sell for ballpark the same in the majority of the sets aside from E102 (E92 Dockman, Crofts, E101, E90). If one sells for more than the other at any given time in any of the non-102 sets, I think it is due to someone just preferring one pose over the other rather than something specific to rarity.

Regarding the E102 fielding, it is supposedly the last or one of the last cards people always need to finish off the e102 set. Andrew listed the 4 tough cards in the set which bring the total to 29 cards (even though the set is advertised as being a 25 card set). It may have to do with these cards being ugly, or perhaps being late editions to sell more product. We may never know. Something to consider is that if these cards were on a sheet, 29 is not easily divisble. 5x5=25. 4x7=28. etc.

2) I think that the batting/fielding wagner poses, in general, are a little surpressed because the front images are found in so many different sets. The portrait Wagner will always sell for a premium due to its t206 brother. Plus, all of the Wagner portrait cards are slightly different, from color background to cropping to size of card, etc.

ps - I think you got a good deal

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Posted By: JimB

I just think that E102 does not rank that highly in popularity among E sets. THere never seems to be a lack of demand for E90-1, E92, E93, E94, E95 or E98 Wagners. I personally think the batting pose Wagners in all of these sets are much more attractive than the portrait in E90-2. Values aside, I would rather have any of those batting pose Wagners than an E90-2.
JimB

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Posted By: Joe D.

We have different tastes in Wagners.

I much prefer any of the portraits (except maybe the m116) over any of his other cards... by a wide margin.

Part of that I am sure is because of the T206... but lately I seem to prefer portrait cards of most other players as well.

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Posted By: JimB

Joe,
That is definately a nice card. And a lot of people agree with you. The E90-2 seems to be extremely hot these days. I think I may be in the minority, but I almost always prefer action poses over portraits. It has always suprised me that portaits of T206s tend to be in a bit more demand as well.
JimB

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Posted By: Joe D.

last year I much preferred the action cards over the portrait cards.

this year, for some reason - I reversed that opinon.

next year - who knows? I may change my mind again.

its a great hobby!

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Posted By: quan

brian i also notice that the throwing/batting wagner poses go for about the same across the different sets. i've always thought the e92/e101/e102/e106/etc poses are cartoony and less popular, wagner looks more like the michelin man. however i feel their prices have really picked up the last few years so alot of collectors are warming up to them.

as for the e102 wagner throwing pricing...it's a tough card that is needed to complete the set, but since i see less and less set collectors people are fine picking up an e92 dockman instead if they want that pose so the e102 don't get the premium it truly deserves. i think "set rarities" are overrated as it only applies to a few set collectors. would most collectors want to spend 3k on an sgc50 e102 miller fielding? do they even know it's "rare" card?

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Posted By: B.C.Daniels

in Mastro will bring $16,654.88 with juice!

that's my guess!

BcD