Alterations - Same subject different thread (by accident)

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Posted By: Kevin

"Kevin- I'm sure it is possible for many altered cards to go undetected, but you make it seem like nearly every card out there is tampered with. Collectors might as well just throw in the towel. Frankly, I don't think it's true."
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I am a collector first and deep commitment the hobby. Most cards are not altered and reside in the correct holders if graded. Based on experience I estimate about 15% in slabs have been altered. Don't throw in the towel but do have a general idea what your getting for your buck. The end is not near but the subject is as important as any other.

Many have a specific specialty; mine just happens to be identifying alterations and is what I can offer the hobby and (maybe) this forum. Before and after pics are appropriate for the alterations I've been showing. Details and more targeted step by step explanations could only hurt the hobby in an open forum...sorry. Not bragging at all, "awareness" is what I am offering at this time.

As for Jim, I've only met him briefly once. Sure, we will talk soon in detail but at least his comments on this subject are accepted for what they are. Not saying I'm a card doctor regardless of the reason, would be hypocritical, it's the unfortunate part of getting to know the subject at hand. It would be like WonkaTicket stating he's is not confrontational .

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"Kevin's 2005 SMR article about 1991 Desert Shield forgeries is quite impressive. It would be even more impressive if all of the info had not already been published a decade earlier in Beckett. What we have here is a hobby novice playing with bleach and trying to talk a big game. Only a buffoon like Crandall would take this Saucier clown seriously."

Frank Alston, that entire post was simply uncalled for. I'm embarrassed for you and feel it's a shame you find the need to express those horrid comments in writing. Adam Smith you are not far behind. I'm no big shot and don't plan on being one. Both of you are obviously the bigger men...literally.

That SMR article was a request by PSA to go beyond what had been written in Beckett and reintroduce the subject to new collectors. Both are different. Dare I say I've written several others? Please show us what either of you have written so that we may all enjoy the benefits of your educational topics. I'm certain we will not be disappointed.

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"I'd also really like to hear him ring in on some of these misprints that show up on ebay or even here, and let people know if he thinks they are natural misprints or doctored, and why."

This is exactly what I can do and would be more than happy to share what little I know.

In person, I can go into more detail. Poor King (cmoking) once got a 2-hour class on card trimming.

Have a good evening!


Kevin Saucier

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Posted By: John

Kevin,

My apologies, I’m really not trying to be confrontational at all. Its just it seems every week for the past months we have been presented with lots of speculation and innuendo about the hobby being destroyed, trimmed altered etc. Were all a bit tired of the constant conspiracy theory stuff, or at least I am.

While most of this stuff is all news worthy, most of it if not all of the things that are brought to light are done so in a very cloak and dagger manner with very little fact or proof behind them. This makes it hard to believe or do anything about it. Also certain individuals have made it their personal soapbox agenda, which further ruined any good intentions behind the cause of cleaning up our beloved hobby.

I understand all to well the fact it wouldn’t be prudent to go into step by step detail on altered cards and how there done. I also appreciate your inputs on bad cards being highlighted by yourself. But unless your superman, you cant be with all of us all the time.

How then do you suggest we protect ourselves from this epidemic you speak of?

What things should we be on the lookout for?

What are the common tell tale signs of altered cards?

Are there things we can do to help us spot altered cards?

Have you taken steps to offer your services to grading companies?

These are just some of the things others and I are asking for your input on. If you can’t give us guidance on some of the above, and all we can talk about are broad statements and photos, all you have succeeded in doing is making collectors paranoid.

Just one collector’s opinion. Balls in your court Kevin.....

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Posted By: barrysloate

Kevin- to continue what John said I think the responsible approach is not to only post about potential card alterations and nothing else. Your last post was more balanced, and you agree that most cards out there are good, and that some aren't. Likewise, we agree it is possible to alter cards in many ways that are very difficult to detect. But no reason to scare the bejesus out of everyone with every post.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Well said Kevin--we will see who apologizes and who is ready to listen.

Barry, Noone said everything in and out of slabs is altered--noone knows. 15% is probably a good guess. My point in asking about your auction is you don't really know what has been trimmed/reshaped etc. If as Kevin said these guys and I think Kevin is saying himself(but only for fun and not for resale).

I think you are right on one score Barry and that our only hope lies with the grading companies. Maybe they need to hire a card doctor as I think Kevin believes so he can show them how doctors get doctored cards by the grading companies.

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Posted By: leon

Do you think the 15% figure you used is across the board. I would argue that the percentage would go up for higher graded cards than lower graded ones, as that is where more money is. We all know about the price of T206 commons, for example. A 5 might be $75 and an 8 might be $3,000......if I get that little teeny corner wear out of one corner my $75 turns into $3000.....if I have a vg card and I get the little corner wear out of a corner it becomes a vg-ex (4) and I have made $25. It seems very simple that higher end cards (especially holdered ones) would have more problems....or am I off base? Kindest regards and thanks for hanging in there with us..Hopefully we can meet someday.....leon

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Posted By: barrysloate

Jim- I agree that it is possible one or more cards in my auction have been touched up and tampered with. However, if I can't detect, and neither can the grading services, and the cards get graded anyway, what am I supposed to do? Be suspicious of every card ever consigned to me? Close down the auction because every card is a potential time bomb? At some point I have to just say here is the auction, and that's it. People are free to make their own decisions at that point. At least I go to the trouble of getting nearly every card graded. That is the best I can do.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Barry,

I agree with what you say and despite others efforts to put words in my mouth I believe you are a 100% honest guy.

I also think its likely that you have cards in your auction that have been tampered with and the buyers of your cards won't be able to tell. Very few people could--maybe Baker, Grade, Rez--perhaps Kevin--and almost certainly the two or three most famous doctors.

What should you do?--nothing--have your auction. You are to be commended for having everything graded.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I appreciate what you are saying with one exception: It is likely that I have cards in my auction that have been tampered with.

How do you know? Would you be able to identify them for me? Because if you can, I would like to withdraw them and return them to my consignors (or if they are mine relist them on ebay as "despite being graded, these cards are altered.")

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Barry,

I know you would and it speaks to your tremendous character but the truth is that noone on this board could identify them--the expertise is not there. Perhaps Kevin could (out of the holder) but only he could answer that.

Jim

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Posted By: John

Jim,

“the truth is that no one on this board could identify them--the expertise is not there.”

And Jim you know this how??? There are some pretty bright people here Jim, perhaps the reason they/we beat you up is that you constantly insult them in your underhand way. Also do you make this stuff up as you go along, do you have any proof to have of the accusations/innuendos you make???

“I also think its likely that you have cards in your auction that have been tampered with and the buyers of your cards won't be able to tell.”

Yeah Barry’s auction most likely does, according to you everything has been tampered with, how could Barry have any cards that aren’t????

As for Kevin he should be wearing a cape if I meet him, from the way it sounds he’s the only one who can help us all?? He has the floor and I'm interested in his responses and ideas. Perhaps when he comes back you can let him run the floor, vs. turning it into the Crandell show. We’ve all seen it at this point Jim nothing personal.

You know Jim; I couldn’t help notice on the dinner thread you had a rough agenda, perhaps you can add balloon animals and pratfalls to the list? I feel clowns should always get back to their roots. Yep I attacked you there Jim, time to put on your whoa as me show. I do so enjoy them, although my wife says I’m getting blood all over the good furniture by reading them. I feel the only good way to get an idea of Crandell’s suffering at the hands of us Net 54 heathens is by self mortification, well better go strap on my ol’ trusty cilice.

You know Jim if I didn’t already know you would love the attention way too much, I would have T-shirts made for all the members here for the National that say

“I attacked poor innocent Jim Crandell. And all I got was this lousy T-Shirt!”


Barry, now that Jim has personally vouched for you character I feel a bit more comfortable bidding in your auction…. although it is a bit on the armpit side for my tastes.

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Posted By: Dave

Kevin should probably elaborate on some of the techniques card doctors use to modify and shape tobacco cards if he is as familiar with them as he says. I see no reason to continually post cryptic messages alluding to card altering. It does nothing more than inflame peoples tempers and make the poster ( in this case Kevin) look suspiciously like a crook. i perform my own conservation work on cards I own, and just about anyone can learn quite a bit by visitng a local museum. Heck you can even go to the Library of Congresses website and they cover some basic conservation techniques. Notice I use the word conservation because I don't believe it is the same as card doctoring. Those of you who don't think you can spot fakes well ought to give yourself a liitle more credit. I believe Leon stated earlier at some point that the financial investment and subsequent gain to be had by doctoring mid-grade and low grade cards is just not there, and he is right. you would have to have to mass produce doctored cards in these grades to make any money at all. My opinion is that the cards that are near mint or higher are the ones that should be suspect. I don't buy cards in those grades at all anymore. I did back in the late 80's from known and trusted collectors or dealers that were local to me.
Frankly, if Kevin is trying to help the hobby or collectors on this board he ought to disclose everything he knows to be true about the docotring "industry". Some may not like that idea , but somebody sometime has to shine some light down in this sewer. otherwise, I would say keep your comments to yourself, I don't want to read about how good someone thinks he is at faking other people out anymore. it's depressing for collectors who just like to have fun and collect, and don't invest for future profits.

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Posted By: Mike

Jim, since we haven't met, and never will, nor will you meet most of us on here, it is somewhat presumptuous of you to assume that we are incapable of identifying altered or manicured cards. I fly under the radar, always have, and always will. But do know how that makes you appear, and sound ? I own thousands of cards. Have been in the hobby for 47 years. So please don't lump us all in the same category. I am quite comfortable with my abilities.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Mike,

I say this only because restoration techniques have advance so significantly in recent years and even the best graders are having a lot of trouble identifying them. If you are on top of all this then I take it back.

Dave,

I think Kevin is writing a book. It is depressing but hopefully out of this will come a solution.

John,

You are an unusual guy to say the least--you say you want to be part of a solution and I did everything possible to arrange the dinner so you can attend but you would rather take potshots at me from outside. By all means continue if it makes you happy.

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Posted By: John

Jim,

“You are an unusual guy to say the least--you say you want to be part of a solution and I did everything possible to arrange the dinner so you can attend but you would rather take potshots at me from outside. By all means continue if it makes you happy.”

It is true I did at first want to give you the benefit of the doubt, I also thought you had some good points regarding hobby issues. I also offered to attend this so-called dinner/pizza party.

I unfortunately was called out of town on business, which now I think was a blessing in disguise. Not only do I think the meeting would have been for the most part a waste of time, but after watching you conduct yourself on the board the next few weeks after this meeting. I was personally glad I was not associated with you and your actions in any way.

I’ve said it before Jim and I’ll say it again, if this hobby needs cleaning up and it needs this so called front man to head the project. You are the last person to do the job; nobody including me can take you seriously at this point.

You and your attitude alone have alienated you, you have no one but yourself to blame for the “potshots”. Its all most any of us can do when it comes to you Jim. Having an adult conversation with an antagonistic self-centered child such as yourself frankly is a waste of time and energy. As long as you continue to make underhanded comments towards everyone and play the martyr expect what you get, and don’t be so surprised all the time.

Lets also not play stupid here ok? You know why you get picked on, and you continue to come here every few days and fan the flames to continue and or prolong your pathetic little show.

I don’t hate you Jim, if anything I pity you. I hope you continue to get the attention you so badly crave, it really seems at this point like you need it.

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Posted By: Kevin

"Do you think the 15% figure you used is across the board."

Based only on what I've inspected, 15%-20% is about the average across the board. High end as well as low. If you are looking for posts on other subjects there are many experts here that do far better than I could ever dream of.

"Perhaps Kevin could (out of the holder) but only he could answer that."

Out of the holder is best by far but in the holder is what I examine most. It's sometimes a tough call with tight fitting cards. So far so good though.

"he ought to disclose everything he knows to be true about the doctoring "industry"."

Yeah right, that's not gonna' happen. Conservation work..good one. I regress I am a conservationist! I know nothing about the doctoring "industry."

Barry, your auctions are perfect. Has there been conservation work done to those cards...yes, no, maybe? They would need to be inspected and not a grading company (under one minute) inspection. Getting cards graded at least eliminates most of the worry and keeps it above suspicion. I think that's the best you can do. Actually what else could you do?

John, as mentioned before, most grading companies could care less. I do tell everything to a single top-level grader plus give him "the scary cards" for the company archives. They are very appreciative and I am glad to help. When I discover something new, he is the first (and only) to know the step-by-step process.

Let's face it most of you already know what to look for and can spot basic alterations. On the tougher stuff, I just render an opinion based on experience and grouping together objective findings, however subtle. With the quality conservation work (like that?) being done, much of the identification is personal perception based on the knowledge level of the person examining the card. I am forever a student of the hobby...one can never learn too much.


Kevin

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Posted By: JimCrandell

No problem John.

You are not interested in hobby issues--do whatever you like.

I never volunteered to lead--no time--but I will try to contribute and out of this have come a few who also want to contribute.

other than that-carry on--not going to stoop to your level.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Great points Kevin!!

I particularly agree with the 15% altered--high, medium or low.
People on here seem to think they are immune from this because they do not collect high grade cards when the problem is just as acute in mid-grade and low-grade. Maybe now that you are saying it instead of me, they will listen? Ha!

Its nice that you are sharing your work with the best grader in the hobby--of course I know who you are talking about. I am not surprised to hear that he is very open as I consider him to be an extremely knowledgeable guy and a good friend.

I know that you will not pass on the real juicy parts of what you have learned to this board or your book for that matter but I would urge you nto pass along as much as you can to all collectors in a public forum.

You are right--at the most sophisticated end collectors can do nothing and graders are not keeping up--for the high end, medium grade and low end.

I have a call into you--thanks for sharing.

Jim

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Posted By: John

Thanks Kevin, for your input and response.

“Let's face it most of you already know what to look for and can spot basic alterations.”

This may not be true I’m sure all of us would appreciate a rough refresher course, and perhaps there are some here that would find the info useful. Perhaps we can form a rough list of questions you could answer, along the lines of the basic ones I posted.

Kevin do you have anything or care to add any input on these questions. If not that’s fine, just looking to learn from you as we have been told you are wealth of knowledge. And with you last response while appreciated it really hasn’t taught me anything I didn’t already kind of know.

Kevin….

How then do you suggest we protect ourselves from this epidemic you speak of?

What things should we be on the lookout for?

What are the common tell tale signs of altered cards?

Are there things we can do to help us spot altered cards?

Have you taken steps to offer your services to grading companies?

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Posted By: John

Jim, your right I have no love for this hobby, I don’t care as much as YOU do. I haven’t been collecting these cards since I was 10yrs old, I didn’t spend days dreaming on page 93 of the #3 Beckett price guide as a kid. I didn’t spend almost every waking hour pouring through antique shops and flea markets for cards as a kid.

Your absolutely right Jim, I hope this hobby goes down the drains; it’s my master plan. I have no love or passion about this crap!

You know something Jim, go pound sand. I wish I had a picture of you so I could really STOOP to bum you out.

Since I don’t and you act like a baby and are the true definition of an Internet troll. This pic will have to do.



And look Jim; you got more attention…yeah Jim! Perhaps you can go have that daily Affirmation now. “Because I’m good enough, and gosh darn it people like me!”

Who's taking the 3 O'clock feeding anyway...Leon, Barry, Joe anyone???

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Posted By: Dave

....by the way there is a difference between conservation work , and doctoring. Perhaps the only nuance being hypothetical profits that can be made from the latter. So now there is to be a book published about this subject by Kevin ? What's new here....? Nothing...guys who claim to have the knowledge and expertise Kevin does have been taking advantage of baseball card collectors since I was a kid. I didn't think it was a big deal back then when I heard people talking about the re-colored borders on some 70's Topps cards.
If Kevin is not willing to disclose any of the information he has gleened in his years of experience then once again I would ask...."why bother posting" human nature being what it is, after such posts people will be curious and will want more facts. Accusations start flying around, and name calling begins. if you are writing a book...you have many of us interested now after your postings, and replies to subsequent posts.
I look forward to reading the book that you are writing Kevin, can you give this audience a time frame on when it will be published ?

by the way, one way to conserve your tobacco cards for future viewing pleasure is to clean any and all tobacco or nicotine type staining off of them. Every Polar Bear card I own has been soaked in OXY clean and gently cleaned with cotton swabs or sponge swabs; and then has been rinsed in distilled water.It makes a big difference believe me. I do not consider this cleaning, "card doctoring" as PSA graded all of the cards I have sent them that have had this done to them.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Wonka,

You are the one that is acting like a child here--look at you--how ridiculous--grow up.

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Posted By: T206Collector

...a T-shirt?

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Posted By: Kevin

Hiding in plain sight alteration.

As you are aware a pinhole, regardless of he card condition, will be given a grade of 1. In the card below a tack was placed through the card and twisted, opening up a two nice sized holes.

Filler was used as well as several other techniques and steps to both fill the holes and disguise their existence. Because the holes were filled in a colored area, a heavy scuff was created to hide the filler. The alteration is now hiding behind another alteration. The back is completely undetectable...really. I know you may think "there are the holes" but the indents are not them .

When looking for a filled hole use a halogen light as well as a fluorescent black-light (50+ watts) to pick up on any starches or bonding compounds used in the mix. Also look for light that may shine through the now thinned cardstock area.

When a hole is filled is not uncommon to have one side look great and the other needing work. It’s very difficult to make both sides look perfect. Don’t always think that worn, scuffed or other flaws are there by accident. It’s always an area of concern.

This card was shown to two graders, one "very well known." The quality of work was such that the alteration within the alteration was not detectible and it also remained opaque. As told...it would have received a grade of 2 or 3. Not much but enough to raise the value considerably if this was an ultra high-end card.



Now take an alterated card, put it in the hands of a $10 hr post-teen with little or no experience and an under-a-minute per card time frame to work and you have yourself a new business.


Enjoy!

Kevin Saucier

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Posted By: Chad

Just Holy Toledo. I'm staying on Mr. Wonka's good side. That is all.

--Chad

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Posted By: JimCrandell

T206,

Hope yoy saw Kevin's staement that the percentage of alteration is consistent among grades(high, medium,low)

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Posted By: Cobby33

Too bad the current administration didn't utilize such dogged enthusiasm in finding WMD's as we are, in trying to find altered cards.

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Posted By: John

Dave good stuff on that Oxy Clean, I wish I would have known that I used Orange Glo and all my cards shine way too much and are bit stained, but they do have a pleasant orange smell.

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Posted By: Dave

Jim....please let Kevin stand behind his own statements. I don't think anyone needs you massaging his shoulders. Kevin is a big boy. Unless he signs your checks how about giving it a rest.

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Posted By: T206Collector

...and I stand by my allegiance to SGC, including their guarantee. If someone ever finds one of my cards to be altered, SGC will make it right. That's the best anyone can hope for.

Given that you only collect PSA 8 cards, I appreciate you standing up for my right to collect unaltered SGC A through 80 graded cards. You are really out to protect us little people.

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Posted By: John

Kevin,

That last post I found very informative, thanks for posting. That kind of post will always be welcomed with open arms. IMO.

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Posted By: Kevin

"I do not consider this cleaning, "card doctoring" as PSA graded all of the cards I have sent them that have had this done to them."

You have to be kidding? That's called bleaching! Your hypocrisy knows no bounds LOL.

I do conservation work as well since I've never made a penny from any altered card..ever. Actually I have lost plenty of money between destructive testing, destroying results, giving them to company archives and creating errors for your enduring comments.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Thanks T206,

I knew you would see the light one day.

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Posted By: Dave

"that's called bleaching"

only by you apparently

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Posted By: andy becker

kevin,
i want to say thanks for the information you have shared with us for the last few weeks. while the information has been a bit disturbing, it is information that needs to see the light of day. so again, THANKS from me personally.

regards
andy

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Posted By: Richard

""that's called bleaching" - only by you apparently"

I would call that bleaching as well.

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Posted By: Todd Schultz

bleaching indeed

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Posted By: jay wolt

"Based only on what I've inspected, 15%-20% is about the average across the board. High end as well as low. If you are looking for posts on other subjects there are many experts here that do far better than I could ever dream of."

Kevin - Just a bit curious, you're 15% estimate that you give.
Is that a broad base of taking a pile of cards at random.
Or just the problematic ones that are sent to you're attention.
Like the one's King send you for examination based on some doubts
he already had? ...jay

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Posted By: John

Kevin,

All joking aside I would like when you get a chance some input on the questions I've posted. I'm following the consensus here that you’re a wealth of knowledge. Not asking you to prove it or anything, just curious if you could shed some light on the topics you’ve roughly brought up.

Anxiously waiting your input. As others are....

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Posted By: Kevin

How then do you suggest we protect ourselves from this epidemic you speak of?

No epidemic but it is getting worse. IMO there is just a lack of qualified graders and the volume of cards being graded is too high. It's a weak link that is being taken advantage of. I now consider raw cards a high risk to purchse. I dunno how to fix it.

What things should we be on the lookout for?

Wow, there are many red flags. Cardstock that is too white or too dark is the first thing that catches my eye. Many times alterations are done to hide other alterations.

What are the common tell tale signs of altered cards?

Anything in a PRO or CSA holder. I'm also leary of some auction houses...too much money involved. Corruption and money are common denominators.

Are there things we can do to help us spot altered cards?

For now, take all the information written about alterations (tid bits from here and there) print them out and make a notebook. You would be surprised on what you could learn when this information is in a common place.

Have you taken steps to offer your services to grading companies?

I have. PSA pretty much ignores the subject, besides I don't think they can afford me LOL. SGC probably doesn't need much assistance at the moment. Mike Baker soaks it up like a sponge and I learn from him as well. Helps that I live in SoCal too.

Maybe not all the asnwers you were looking for but I didn't want to leave you hanging.

_________________

Jay you are somewhat correct about that 15% thing. I posted about it on another thread.

Al, forgot to mention....awesome magazine last month. Your work just keeps getting better.

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Posted By: John

Kevin,

Thanks for responding and not leaving me hanging etc. I do appreciate the response, truly do.

At the risk of sounding ungrateful, I have to say your answers seem to be a bit lack luster, or seem to have precious meat on the bone if you will. Cardstock too white or too dark, PRO/CSA most likely trimmed, print tid bits and make a notebook etc.

All of those answers yet again seem very vague and broad to say the least. I can only assume or draw conclusions to why this might be.

1.)The obvious it’s late your tired and don’t want to type a long drawn out response, fair and rightfully so.
2.)You somehow feel divulging any details will unleash armature card doctors on the hobby in someway shape or form.
3.)You don’t want to give out all of your juicy information in a free forum when there is a book in the works, which I assume is book for profit not non-profit. Fair and just business decision.

I’m reading your posts. I’m even reading the posts of people posting about your posts and how knowledgeable and capable you are regarding the topics at hand.

So here’s my problem. And there’s a very good chance I’m in the minority here but I don’t seem to be getting much out of them. I mean I get the basic premises behind the posts, but I don’t find myself learning anything to better my hobby experience or protect me from uneducated mistakes.

Short of there are crooks who will try and take your money by using unscrupulous methods, which I think I and others are completely aware of.

Kevin, I don’t doubt your knowledge or your sincerity please I hope you understand that.
It’s also not really complaint per say, I’m more just wondering if this is ever going to develop beyond what’s currently transpiring?? Perhaps into something truly educational for us all?

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Posted By: George Dreher

I agree that anything in a PRO holder is probably a piece of garbage, but CSA holders graded during the company's first couple of years have crossed over nicely for me. They have the same grading scale as ASA and the PQ grades crossover to the same number at PSA. Anything in a CSA holder from 1998 onward is questionable.

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Posted By: Dazed

Any chance of creating a poison pill here? Already I realise I would never consider buying a Pre-War card in NM or higher no matter what holder it's in. I find myself looking back at my old auction catalogues and seeing wavy borders and fish-hook corners on all those Mint 9 beauties. It's maddening! I have to believe that the PSA 8 Wagner has perfect vintage looking edges whether they're trimmed or not. Someone's got to say it - what if it really is possible to trim a card in such a way that it's impossible to determine when it was done? Would that really surprise any of us? Hell, we can map the human genetic code! I remember someone saying long ago, that when there is enough money in forged or altered sports memorabilia, it may attract the attention of the really master criminal. If PSA is trying to downplay this, maybe thay aren't so dumb after all. Mr. Crandell, - is crusading against this supposed to protect what you have in your collection? Fifty years from now your children may be saying "Dad sure collected a lot of plastic crap!"

Yours truly,
Dazed & Confused

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Dazed,

No--my interests bwould be best served if I was just quiet about it. It is interesting that everyone tries to ascribe an ulterior motive other than doing something for the hobby.

Like everyone, I think the vast majority of cards I own are legit--but the law of averages would say that I own some altered cards--

Jim

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Posted By: T206Collector

....even Kevin agrees that PSA "ignores the subject" while SGC "doesn't need much assistance at the moment." If you would just have all of your cards reviewed by SGC, you could ferret out many of those alterations.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

i am glad he used Baker's name. Mike is not only the best grader in the hobby but he is open and willing to learn....and Kevin has plenty to teach--may have some further observations after I speak with Dr. Kevin(as he calls himself) today.

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Posted By: Dave

points posted above. I think the reason we don't get any detailed information is probably #3. Why give it away for free when you can float it out there on this forum and get an idea of how much $$ can be made by writing a book about the subject.
I eagerly await this tome's publication Kevin !! If it is simialr to your articles then it should be quite a read indeed.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Dave,

Kevin will not be disclosing the real inside stuff of what he knows in the book either.

Jim

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Posted By: Dave

As long as you know the "real inside stuff". That's all that matters Crandell.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Just repeating what he already said buddy.

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Posted By: barrysloate

If Kevin is writing a book why would he leave out the best stuff? Isn't that the point of a research book, to be an exhaustive study on a particular topic. Why would I want to read it if I thought the most important points were intentionally omitted?