How scarce are top grade S74 Silks?

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Posted By: Steve Parmentier

I am trying to get a feel for how many nice S74 silks are out there in high grade, particularly major HOF'ers. Neither PSA nor SGC grades these fragile silks - only GAI grades them. I don't know of any published population numbers. I was fortunate to pick up a Mathewson, colored - sent it to GAI, got NM "7". Also picked up a Walter Johnson, colored GAI "6.5" Mike Baker at GAI told me very rare - in the single digit population in those high grades. Anyone have for sale nice S74's (colored or black/white with backing)? Thanks, Steve.

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Posted By: andy becker

hi steve,
congrats on the matty grade!
silks are inherently very, very tough in high grade.....as they were issued folded down the middle to fit in tobacco packages.
colored silks are a bit easier, imo, as they do not have the paper backing and can be "ironed" out. the white silks with paper backs are exceedingly tough in high. very very few are out there without the fold.
i consider a silk with the fold to be excellent condition. better is unfolded....worse have fraying or other issues.
hope this helps, please feel free to email me to discuss silks or post on the board and i (and others) will respond.
andy

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Posted By: John S

Steve,

Great post. Silks definitely do not garner the respect that they deserve. The player images appear almost 3D and the clarity is incredible. I do not know how scarce they are but they are not common. I wish that I could help you out but I am putting together a small collection as well. Best of luck.

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Posted By: Aaron Seefeldt

About 10 years ago a fellow dealer approached me at a show because I had a handful of S74s (both colored and white w/backs). He asked me to come to his table and see a group of whites he had (all with the paper backing attached).

A quick note: white silks come with 3 different backs - Old Mill, Turkey Red, and Red Sun. The Red Suns are much more difficult than the other 2. All are in black print on the back of the cardboardish backing.

Back to my story. When he showed me his silks I almost had a heart attack. There were at least 75 of them and 80% of them had Red Sun backs. And to my astonishment, not one of them had the well documented "crease". All the big HOFers in the set were there and mostly with Red Sun backs. The highlight was the Cobb. Spotless, creaseless, no fraying of the fabric on top, you get the idea. It actually shined from the silk. The dealer told me that an older fellow had brought them into his store.

I bought the whole group. If I told you what I paid you would probably vomit. I sold them at shows, usually a couple at a time. The last 20 or 30 I had left I consigned to Mastro. I thought for sure they would go for alot. Well, they fizzled. So be it with auctions.

They are out there somewhere... deep in collections. They are rare but not as rare as some other issues.

A word of advice, only buy the whites with the backing attached.

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Posted By: joe

Hello, I have 11 silks graded by GAI.

(6) color silks, (1) Cobb HOF vg 3, others (2) ex5, (1)fair 1.5,(1) vg-ex 4, (1) ex-mt 6

(5) white silks with backs, (1) Cobb ex 5, others (1) ex 5, (1) vg-ex 4, (1) ex-mt and (1) ex-mt no fold.

All Detroit Players 2 HOF both Cobb.

Joe

Ty Cobb, Spikes flying!

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

IMO, the whites without backs are like Zeenuts w/o coupons.

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Posted By: John S

Joe,

Could you post a scan of your graded Cobb S74-2? I am considering sending a few of mine to GAI and would like to see the presentation.

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Posted By: joe

Here are both Cobb's. I'm not that happy with the way they slab the color silks, a little sloppy.

Joe



Ty Cobb, Spikes flying!

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Posted By: andy becker

couple points.....
1. white silks with the paper backs come in FOUR different tobacco brands....with one variation of back design.
-the two most common are old mill and turkey red.
-turkey red with frame
-red sun are very scarce
-and helmar...in the 10+ years that i have collected silks i have only heard of two helmar silks.

2. aaron brings up an excellent point with the unfolded red suns. it is my experience that red sun silks with blue ink fronts are all unfolded and red sun silks with red (maroon) ink fronts are all folded.

aaron, do you remember if the red sun hoard you owned fit that pattern?

3. white silks with backs are mostly printed (the back that is) in black ink. the exception is a turkey red with frame back, those backs are printed in blue ink.

and i agree with john, silks do not command the respect that they deserve. nice examples are truly gorgeous....they have great depth and clarity of photo.

edited to add that beckett grades silks and they look a bit nicer, imo, than gai.
and that i wish sgc would grade silks, they did at one point as i own one (which i bought already graded).

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Posted By: joe

This is the one that came back graded with no fold identification.

By the way none are for sale.

Joe





Ty Cobb, Spikes flying!

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Posted By: John S

Ugh!!! That colored S74 in the GAI holder really takes away from the silk. I think I will leave mine ungraded. The white looks decent however.

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Posted By: paulstratton

Here is one of mine. So you can "iron" the folds out of these?

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Posted By: Patrick McMenemy

A few years back I put together this group. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find any others in different colors for a few years. They have either had condition problems or insane prices.





Patrick

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Posted By: andy becker

patrick,
that group is awesome!

paul,
i'm really not sure about the ironing. but, if it is possible....it would only be possible with the s74-2 (colored) as the s74-1 (white) reacts the same as any cardboard card would when folded.....big ole' crease.

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Posted By: Anonymous

Two notes of caution about the white silks with no backs. If you iron directly (no cloth between iron and silk) or with a too hot iron, the silks (apparently synthetic) will melt and the picture will also transfer to the ironing board cover or whatever fabric with which it is in contact.

Edited to say that I tested on a non-HOF.

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Posted By: Larry

Very Underated, underpriced and beautiful issue, why they cannot be graded in oversized slabs when PSA grades a ticket stub is beyond me...
Those S74's are beautiful, rarer than T205's and unique..Love the Colors!

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Posted By: Aaron Seefeldt

Come to think of it Andy, I only remember the Red Suns that were in that group having the blue print on front.