E96 Proof set debunked

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Posted By: Anonymous

Interesting thread I came upon at SGC. Apparently A Nap Lajoie card (among others) which was thought to be an E96 proof card actually came from the notebook which a scan is of below. Apparently only one of these notebooks exists in its complete state, the notebook is dated to 1913. Perhaps this is old news to some but an interesting find to me.

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Posted By: Darren

Little difference between this and those great ebay vintage graded cutouts IMO.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Here's something interesting: if you look at the picture of the Lajoie on the notebook cover there are two flourishes at either side of the card that appear to overlap slightly past the white border and into the red background. Wouldn't that show on a cut out? It may just be my eyesight but it does look like it goes past the border.

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Posted By: JK

Barry,

I think it does appear on the card. To me, there is no intrusion on the right side of the notebook card, only on the left. If you look at the cut out card, there is nothing on the right as I would expect. However, if you look to the very left of lajoie's shoulder/arm, there appears to be a very thin off-white line. I believe that is what causes the illusion of the intrusion on the notebook - the notebook cover does appear to be one color and a continuation of the flourishes, but I believe that is an illusion caused by the small scan (making it blend together).

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Posted By: barrysloate

Josh- you are correct that the intrusion is on the left side only, it just looks a little thicker on the notebook and very thin on the card. I do believe the card in the holder is a cut out and not a proof but I could probably see this better if I were holding the notebook in my hand.

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Posted By: JK

you may be right barry - just hard to tell for sure due to the scan and size - I agree having the notebook in hand would help. For what its worth, Im pretty sure I saw this notebook on ebay a few days ago - now I cant find it, but I also didnt look too hard.

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Posted By: JimB

THere are also similar "blank back E95s" that come from similar notebook covers.
JimB

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Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

Here is the auction referenced above by JK.

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Posted By: Max Weder

Here's the scan from the auction, which has a nice closeup of the images.

(and whoever buys it, please keep it whole...)



Max

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Posted By: Joe Jones

The auction is just for the notebook cover. Is there other covers or was there more than one page originally? I ask because other players, like Mathewson, are not shown on this particular cover.

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Posted By: fkw

For those that dont know, I have wrote on this about 4 times in the past 7 years....


That particular SGC "E96 Proof" (Notebook card) has been auctioned on eBay at least 4 times in the last 7 years. It has the old style flip and was graded about 10 years ago in the late 90's when no one really knew where these cards came from (SGC just guessed when they identified it). It is not a Proof, it is cut from the notebook, notice the left and bottom borders have a sliver of the orange background color (other scans from previous auctions of this exact card are clearer and the orange is easy to see). There are also at least 2 of these Notebook cards slabed as "proofs" in ASA slabs (another Lajoie and a Wagner). Even Lew Lipset wasnt quite sure where these cards came from, but he sure knew they were not proofs.
Lew Lipset's Baseball Card Encyclopedia Vol.2 (1984), on page 19, Lew wrote... "Thin, blank backed E95's and E96's are known and most likely these were cut from display posters. They should not be considered proofs."

I wrote the post on the SGC message board mainly because I submited the Mathewson and SGC wouldnt slab it for some reason. Yet they slab 1910W-Unc. Strip cards cut from a similar piece, E97 B&W cards also though by some to be notebook cover cards, Darby Chocolate cards, which to some is just the panel of a candy box.

IMO, they are cards, not cutouts, they have the exact look of a 1910 card of the era, and a blank back, and the biggest reason of all, 99% have been cutout by the kids of the time, and collected as cards (thats why the complete notebook is so rare). BTW the complete notebook's original owner was a little girl (homework Sep/Oct 1913), and mostlikly the reason it survived being chopped up in 1913.

I was the original owner of the complete notebook, but sold it off. The Lajoie on the complete notebook has the red color backbround slightly off registered, thats why the border looks thin. Here is a closeup.




Im sure you all have seen the one thats on eBay right now (if not and you planed to bid, sorry, its out of the bag now ) This example (with crease through the middle) was found in an antique store and is just the cover portion of the notebook, but the registration looks to be right on and much clearer than the complete notebook I once owned.

BTW there are 19 different notebook cards known (that I have seen in the last 7+ years).

Frank

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Posted By: fkw

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Posted By: fkw

PS. There is also a smaller notebook that I have seen (but dont have a picture of), that has an Evers and one other card on its cover. If I remember right it has a scorecard design to the front cover and the pages may also be scorecards.

Does anyone have a picture of it? It was on eBay about 4 years ago.

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Posted By: barrysloate

The big scan is very helpful and you can see how one could carefully trim a Lajoie to have four even borders with virtually no visible overlap.