Is this real T200?

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Posted By: peter ullman

I just won this on good ol' ebay this evening. I think it's real but am not positive. Can anyone help give me some peace of mind...atleast $50 worth?!?! Thanks!

pete in mn
Item number: 300009029314

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Posted By: steve f

Hi Pete,

Doesn't look good.

Originals; The edges tend to curl upward due to the albumin contracting with time (Similar to the OJs). The face is a heavy gloss but the stock is thin and delicate. The brittle top surface tends to craze rather than crease. There appears to be just two layers of paper stock on my examples.

I don't see these common traits in your card.

Your text layout and style matches the originals.

That left back corner has peeling on the surface as if it's a three-layer card as well.

Luckily, your seller has decent feedback.

Reading the ad, this guy is deceptive. "Original, but can't guarantee it -no refunds?! Note the space between the trainers elbow and the inside border "

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Posted By: jay behrens

Tough to tell. There are a lot of good things about the card, but also a fewe worrisome things. Holding it in my hand would tell me for sure. Nice card if it's legit.

Jay

Growing old is not optional, growing up is.

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Posted By: peter ullman

thanks steve...jay...i know these cards are prone to chipping so I assumed the edges are doing just that. the space between the trainers elbow and the border is definitely different...but...not enough for me to say fake yet! I didn't think these cards were reprinted...but maybe it's a lasered copy...or maybe it will be legit...who knows. I realize the verbage is somewhat deceptive and ordinarily I would never take the chance with a disclaimer like that. Maybe I can add it to my fake mayo and fake t3.

pete in mn

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Posted By: davidcycleback

The reprints I've seen of this issue are bad-- you'd identify them as reprints right away. I notice that the border in the eBay card appears to have glossy borders, which is consistant of the originals.

The originals are paper photographs and in person will have no printed dot pattern. Further, the fronts are shiny/glossy while the backs are not.

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Posted By: peter ullman

thanks david...i feel pretty good about this one!

pete ullman

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Pete,

IMO, I don't think it looks right. I have many of these and I've traded/sold many of these. It looks "thick". The stock for these is very, very thin. Also, there's something about the back scan that bugs me. The light creasing and layering of the paper looks wrong. Add to that the following statement in the item description:

This item is on consignment, therefor I can not guarantee this cards authenticity. Please know this before placing your bid as there will be no refunds granted.

I hope I'm wrong but I have a feeling I'm not.

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Posted By: peter ullman

baaaah...thanks for all the advice! I guess I'll have to wait and see.

pete in mn

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Posted By: John S

Pete,

I almost bit on this one but passed, hopefully your card is legit. Without holding it one can never be sure. I balked because of the multiple disclaimers by the seller. Let us know.

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Posted By: fkw

Tough one. The bad things are the surface wear on back looks like its made of card stock (like the reprints), and not thin brittle photo paper. The rounded corners are unusual too, they tend to chip and break off more than round. The good things are the chipping looks good to me.

Here is a link to a photo of a common reprint.
T200 Wash. reprint

Its a tough call, the reprints dont have any cropping differences that I can see.
The space between the elbow and border looks deceptively narrower on the PSA graded one because the photo darkened the last 1/8" or so on the left edge.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

I love it... not the card, I think it is not genuine.

What I love is that it is difficult to be sure while the card is slabbed. Full circle, slabbing the card results in uncertainty about authenticity.

A good way to avoid that is to buy cards, not slabs. But I'm cynical, biased, and unreasonable.

I do wish you well with that card.

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Posted By: ramram

It's a reprint. I ran across some just like this a couple of years ago. After asking the seller several questions, both he and I concluded that they were reprints (he pulled the auctions off of ebay). As mentioned, the reprints are a heavier card stock and are not glossy.

Rob M.

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Posted By: leon

With all due respect I don't think they are talking about the card in the PSA slab. You have to put the ebay number, in the first post, in an ebay search to find it. I thought the same thing as you at first....best regards...

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Thank you Leon... I lept at the chance to again speak out against slabbing...

That card on eBay looks suspicious to me, you'd need to hold it to be sure. You'd need a return policy.

So how does Activa, that image service make money if they offer that free???

Frank.

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Posted By: Anonymous

As others have stated, the corner wear and edge wear are not what you would find on a real Fatima. Fatimas are too thin for that.

This seller can't have it both ways. He states that the card is "an original" and "rare." He calls his auction "unique." He requires insurance for the BIDDER'S protection yet tries to indemnify himself from any responsibilty by claiming he can't "guarantee" authenticity or provide a refund. The entire listing is about guaranteeing HIS protection.

If he is telling the truth, the consigner could reimburse him if the item turns out to be fake. Ebay should not allow this. This clearly violates their policy.


EBAY AUTHENTICITY DISCLAIMER POLICY
Sellers may not disclaim knowledge of, or responsibility for, the authenticity or legality of the items offered in their listings.Sellers should take steps to ensure that their items are authentic before listing them on eBay. If a seller cannot verify the authenticity of an item, the seller is not permitted to list it.


LISTING
"Thank you for checking out this unique auction. Up for bid is an original 1913 Fatima Turkish Cigarettes Washington Americans Baseball Card.The picture is great, there are normal signs of wear around the edges and some water spotting.

This item is on consignment, therefor I can not guarantee this cards authenticity. Please know this before placing your bid as there will be no refunds granted.

This card will be shipped with extreme care and must be insured for your protection. This item is a rare piece of Americana! Photo was only cropped, no other altering."

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Posted By: davidcycleback

It doesn't matter if it's consignment or you're selling 'as is' or your cat is sick, if a seller represents a baseball card an original and it turns out to be reprint or forgery worth less money, he has to accept it back for refund. That's the way it is.

Humorous are eBay sellers who think they are immune from the law because they use disclaimers. They may be astonished when a judge tells them that saying 'I'm no expert' and 'no refunds' doesn't allow a seller to mail a Xerox copy instead of the advertized original 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle.

Particularly humorous is the common eBay (mis)usage of 'as is.' 'As is' doesn't mean 'I can deliver whatever I want and the buyer can't do anything about it it, because I said as is.' For example, if you advertise for sale a 1996 Nissan Maxima 'sold as is,' you are legally required to provide the buyer with a 1996 Nissan Maxima.

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Posted By: david bryan

Just in case there is any confusion I can clear up one thing. The card the original poster made is not the PSA card. The PSA card is one I sold on ebay recently and is 100% legit.

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Posted By: Kenneth A. Cohen

I have been reading this board for some time now. So first thanks to all who share their knowledge. This thread has hit on something near and dear to my heart. I have personally caused dozens of auctions to be de-listed for violation of the authenticity disclaimer policy. The classic ruse used to be - "since this card is not graded I am selling it as a reprint per Ebay policy." I don't seem to see this as much anymore - and maybe I can claim a small piece of the credit.

This guy's auction (the T200) was clearly in violation and had someone reported it, I believe it highly likely that it would have been de-listed. If everyone does this, it might decrease the use of, if not eliminate, this scummy business practice.

Pete, make sure you pay with a credit card!

Regards,

Ken

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Posted By: steve f

The alleged counterfeit card is not pictured in this thread above but on the eBay site. This photo above in the PSA 3 holder is the genuine article and sold by david bryan.

David,
I hope you don't mind that I used your prior auction as an authentic example. If so, I apologize.

Pete, Good luck with this sale.

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Posted By: Bob

I'm sorry to be a naysayer, Pete, but I think the card is a fake. About a year and a half ago several of these were floating around. Make sure to pay with a credit card, through Paypal using a credit card would be even better, because I am afraid you are going to have to return it and have the charge credited back to your account when you get it.