Cap Anson, 1905 signed city clerks letter Please HELP

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Posted By: Karl Hillman

I have a 1906 signed document from the city of Clerks office, Signed by Cap Anson, and also on the back side of the Cap Anson as well.
any information please help.
thanks
anyone who knows his signature please email me for scans,
We did send item to get authenticed before, but its pointless, these services are poor, don't trust sending items of this value to a service like that, where kids are authenticing items. I perfer to get information from a vintage dealer, and not a 24 year old kid working for one of these services.
plmk
mail me at smallwonders1234@aol.com for scans
thanks
I don't know how to load photos on here.

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Posted By: leon

There are experts on this board that can probably help you with this. Good luck with it. If it's real it's probably worth a pretty penny.....best regards (if you send me a jpeg I can post the scan for you)....

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Posted By: Harry Wallace (HW)

From what I understand, many of these Anson/City documents exhibit secretarial signatures of Anson.

His signature is very distinct and any decent authenticator (Spence, Simon, Gutierrez, etc.) should be able to help you out.

Post a picture here and maybe we can help.

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Posted By: drc

I had an Anson City Clerk letter with two signatures I won in a Mastro auction, one on back and one on front. The front signature was secreterial and the back was genuine. It was a few years ago that I had it, but I beleive the real signature had his official city clerk dated ink stamp with it-- sort of like a notary's stamp-- while the secretarial did not. I saw another Anson signed City Clerk document with the same stamp next to his signature, so I assume the stamp was standard when his did such office filing signings.

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Posted By: Steve M.

looks like it may be difficult to get any Anson authenticated given the fact that his secretary may have signed for him and the fact that his signature changed significantly over the years.

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Posted By: Karl Hillman

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Posted By: leon

I didn't get this done yesterday.....here ya go..

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Posted By: drc

I'm no autograph expert, but I beleive the front one is secretarial and back one is Anson's real autograph. The letter is just like the one I won from Mastro, except with a different date and subject topic. Even with one Anson autograph, it's a valuable letter.

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Posted By: James Feagin

"We did send item to get authenticed before, but its pointless, these services are poor, don't trust sending items of this value to a service like that, where kids are authenticing items. I perfer to get information from a vintage dealer, and not a 24 year old kid working for one of these services."


I would assume from that statement the Anson Letter came back "not authentic", correct?

James

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Posted By: Anonymous

No I never sent it in yet,
I sent in a few other items, out of 10 items, they did 5 of them,
sugar ray robinson signed trucks, roberto clemente baseball, and other cheaper ones,
they swent back a jordan said the j was to big, and a mantle the k wasn't rght,
and they didn't pack anything right at all, all loose in the box. 3 weeks for a 5 day service
I get a $300 credit for the damages, to use them again, Right. that makes sense
Do you think these players know that they need to make there K and J the same way.

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Posted By: drc

With a letter like yours, with City Clerk date stamp, Anson's personal stationary and City Clerk seal, the only real question is whether the signatures are secretarial or Anson's. Unlike index cards and baseballs, Anson's personal Chicago City Clerk stationary isn't something that can bought at a dime store.

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Posted By: Rhys

I am big into autographs as many of you know, but do not usually try to authenticate items for other people as it gets sort of dicey. I have handled thousands of pre-war signatures and my personal opinion is that both Anson signatures are Secretarial. I could be proven wrong but that would be my opinion. Anson signed in a VERY choppy and dramatic up and down stroke as evidenced by the top two signatures which come to points on almost up and down stroke of the pen. I have seen very little variation in this from the decades spanning his playing days through his death, most true signatures look similar in the way he signed. Both your examples are flowing and hardly come to a stop anywhere. It would also not be uncommon for secretaries or those with government authority to sign for Anson on just about anything whether it had the stamp on it or not.

I just sold a similar Joshua L. Chamberlain Civil War era document which was secretarially signed but still desirable. It is a nice piece but as an autograph collector of this type of material for years, my opinion is that both are secretarial. I could be proven though as I am not an authenticator.

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Posted By: karl

This would mean that Topps used one not signed by anson also?
This is the same of the back side one of mine, of course I'm not saying Topps isn't good either, Upperdeck had a problem as well.
I just don't trust any of these places who decide what is authentic or not.
For the most part while one said its authentic another sys its not.
I have had many item sent in, even send a few in twice and they passed the second time, What does that tell you? ha ha I don't believe these places know any more than we do.

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Posted By: T206Collector

(1) With vintage autographs, it will always be an authenticator's best guess -- we can't ask Cap, and even if he were here today, even he might not know for sure;
(2) A vintage autograph only has as much value as the value of the authenticator in the market in which the autograph would be sold. I like James Spence, and all my autographed T206 cards are authenticated by James Spence. If it turns out he was a fraud, the value of my autographed T206 cards would be zero until I got another respected authenticator to authenticate them.

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Posted By: Anonymous

Thanks for your replies. I decide after all to send to a authenticator,
and used GLOBAL AUTHENTICATION.
Even thou I got unhappy news to a few items being questionable and no good.
This service was 100% in the way the deal with people. They explained in full there finding to why items were found authentic, and or questionable in great detail, leaving you without any questions, or doubts.
What I was most happy with was the professional matter they take in explaining to someone who is dumbfound to what they are doing. I've only deal with 2 people personally from this service.

Justin Priddy is the head authenticator who I said was 100% helpful in all matter with my items, in explaining why certain items I sent were questionable

Danny Fisher, who I already knew from going to show summitting cards for grading. Who is always helpful and friendly, in giving you great customoer service.

I was very happy with my service and have a great outlook with this company.

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Posted By: Anonymous

P.S.
Cap Anson was found to be a authentic signature on the back side. The front signature was found to not be Anson's.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

It has a real Anson sig; which side it is on is not as much an issue as it being real. Congrats.

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Posted By: Anonymous

Well at first I expect they were both his signature, on front and back, dual signature letter.
lol