W517 colors

[Archive]

Posted By: steve f

Perhaps all colors are in equal abundance, but seems that the "purple" version is far less prevalent at auctions. Couldn't locate a reference in the more common W517 sources. Any 1930's or W517 collectors have an idea on the pops. of the various colors? These two I believe are green (possibly black) and purple.

tia,
Steve F

[Archive]

Posted By: fkw

Some may have more info, but IMO the toughest colors are red, purple, and the medium green. The most common are sepia, B&W, and dark blue. The tougher colors are attractive and command a premium over the more common colors.

[Archive]

Posted By: Adam J. Baxter

This list is based on my experience collecting these and what I've seen on Ebay and elsewhere-

Toughest: Red, Purple, Green and Light Green, Pink, Gray, Light/Neon Blue and I've heard of Orange, but have never seen one.

Easiest: Sepia, Dark Green, Blue, Dark Blue (Navy), B & W, Brown

The Standard Catalog does not currently list pricing tiers for the different colors. I imagine that it could be pretty tough try to catalog all the color variations since there are so many in-between shades. Also W517's with game captions on the borders like "Strike", etc. are difficult no matter what the color. I have a variety of different colors on my website if you want to check them out at:

http://imageevent.com/adambaxter/wcards;jsessionid=4en6m4zvm3.zebra_s

P.S.: I believe either Rhett or Rhys Yeakley have handled quite a few of these in the past and would probably have some better info for you.

[Archive]

Posted By: Brian

Hi

Since I am the man responsible for making the reprint set to this series and owning a truck load of these cards i would say that Sepia is the most common. To be honest, anything that is not sepia should carry a premuim, but the reds, oranges, greens,light blues, pink, grays and purples should carry a nice premium!

any other questions about this set feel free to email at bjbaseball27@hotmail.com

[Archive]

Posted By: steve f

Amazing the varieties of this strip...
Brian, It may be toughto tell, but is that first Babe Ruth above green or black?

[Archive]

Posted By: Brian

Judging from your scan and comparing it to my cards it appears to be green. The black and white is a lil easier to tell. The green color comes in like 3 different shades:Dark green,Green, and very light green. You have two nice cards there of ruth. The other Ruth appears to be sepia color at first glance, but then the purple hits you. How many other W517's do you own. Also I am in the process of getting these cards out of the "W" category in the card catelog. Thanks and any more questions feel free to email or ask.

[Archive]

Posted By: fkw

Out of the "W" category?? What other category would they fit in?

The W517's are 100% strip cards. Not Candy "E" or "R", Not Tobacco "T", Not Periodical 'M", Not Bakery or Food "D" or "F". What do you think they should be cataloged as???

Frank

[Archive]

Posted By: Zach Rice

I agree with Frank, they're W cards if you like it or not. Though they are not as crude as many they are still strip cards thus having the W designation.

[Archive]

Posted By: Brian

I know that but if you are 90% sure who the maker of the cards are and 100% sure what city they came out of then why would they be in with the W cards?? W cards are for strip cards, that is correct but the card catalog gives the W designation because the makers are unknown!I dont need emails asking me what I know because Its not 100%!

[Archive]

Posted By: jay behrens

It is known who made a number of the strip card sets and there is movement to get htem moved from the W catagory, so why should this set be any different. The definition is a generality. The first being the the cards were sold in strips. The fact that most it a manufacturer is unknown does not make a card a strip card. That would mean that all the E-unc cards should be reclassified as W-unc by your definition.

Share with us anyway. There is nothing 100% known about t206 sheets, but there is plenty of speculation that has been posted on the board.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

[Archive]

Posted By: warshawlaw

From Chicago and printed by the Exhibit Supply Company?

[Archive]

Posted By: identify7

Well Brian, perhaps you can help me with some information.

In my possession there are two w517s. One a Sewell is on cardstock as thin as a Cracker Jack, but exhibits toning typical of the issue. The second, an Alexander is on grey backed card stock.

Both cards are sepia and exhibit a dot matrix consistent with pre-war issues (ie. brown dots). I do not currently consider these examples regular issue cards, but perhaps advertising display cut outs. But I do not know.

Have you encountered variations in the stock on which these cards were printed?

[Archive]

Posted By: Adam J. Baxter

Back in the February 1978 issue of The Trader Speaks collector Rex Coile submitted an interesting article on the W517 series. He felt that this set was likely a candy issue and that it may have been connected to a product known as "Champion" or "Champions". Despite some of the interesting theories that Rex had, I still think that this set is right at home in the W category. Here are some things to consider:

1. They were distributed in strips of 3 cards, no full uncut sheet to has ever been found.

2. The printing and paper quality are consistent with most strip cards from the 1920's-1930's era

3. I have yet to encounter an example that is FACTORY CUT on all four sides. Every example both large or mini I have owned, handled, or seen for sale this past year have obviously been hand cut from a strip.

4. They have a solid connection to exhibit cards of the era, which were distributed through machines at carnivals, etc. It's pretty easy to imagine strips of W517's being sold in the same manner.

Unless new evidence appears showing the original distribution method and producer, my vote is that they stay in the W category.

[Archive]

Posted By: Zach Rice

Brian, you seem to have enough time to post reguarly so why don't you post a scan of your 1912 Boston Garters ? You claimed you couldnt because you were busy with business and wouldn't have the time to reply with them.

[Archive]

Posted By: identify7

It appears to me that the colors observed in the w517 set do not represent discreet press runs containing individual colors. It seems much more like a continuous printing process in which when the pigment was running low, more was poured in. The ink (I guess) may or may not match that of the ongoing process.

This “hey gimme another jug of ink Joe” approach results in numerous color blends. Of course, with this approach the lighter colors (such as yellow) are less common than the darker ones. Since black was one of the colors used, darker tints appear way more commonly than lighter ones.

I have no evidence that this approach was employed. It is a speculation based on my observation of the colors which exist and their apparent population.

[Archive]

Posted By: Brian

To start off I will respond to identify's question. I almost agree totally to what your theory is on the card colors. Remember these cards were printed during the depression so it is more likely that they could have just poured colors of ink in when one ran out. Why would you really care about your manufacturing process during that horrible time of the U.S.? Do you have scans of those two cards you are talking about? Are they photo size? I remember back in 1999 I think when Halper collection was sold there was an orginal picture(black and white) from which the ruth portait was made that sold with the ruth card for around $4,000. If this is the same card kinda card you are talking about. I havent seen many original photos, but could this be what you have?

And second, Adam you have some very information and the guy you are telling about was on the right track! I have done 10 years of reserach on this set and after 10 years here is what I have.

1. This set was manufactored in Philadelphia, Pa.(Many convos with workers and citizens from that era saying they remember the cards)

2. If these cards were printed in end of 1930 and or 1931, the Philadelphia A's won the World Series in 1930 against the Reds: That would explain why there is 12 Philadelphia Athletics in this set, by far the most of any team! That would make sense to why a Philadelphia company would produce cards.

3. These cards indeed came out of a box that was labled, Champion Draw.

4. The W designation is for strip cards, but this set was both because you had candy cards coming in strips of three. This is 100% fact because on the champion draw box explains what the stripes on the back of some cards meant to the purchaser. The stripe meant you get a free piece of candy! And most of the purchasers turned their cards in so that they could be redeemed at the store for more candy.

5. So hopefully by next year the American card catalog can have these titled "Champion Draw" (Strip Cards)

Thats what I know. Some is 100% and other info is about 90%, But depending on the college you went to, most of the time 95% was an A.

Brian

[Archive]

Posted By: fkw

Thanks for the new info Brian,

Was "Champion Draw" a candy? That would be one big box of candy!!

I knew about the colored strips at bottom of the backs of some cards. Do you happen to have a scan of the "Champion Draw" box info about turning in these redemption strips for candy? Ive heard the redemption for candy theory one time before in a thread earlier this year, but have never seen the info. Its interesting.

There are a few "W" cards that may be from Candy issues, but there is no proof (ie. W575-2, W574, W503, W555.

Frank

[Archive]

Posted By: Anson

I've seen lists that vary quite a bit. In the cases of a lot of the 517s, there just seem to be too few of any one player to get a good read on it.

[Archive]

Posted By: bill

hey first post
what's up with w-517 mini's
are they legit
are the worth more than the regular size
I saw in one of the old price guides they were worh 2x as the regulars

[Archive]

Posted By: fkw

Id buy every single mini you have at 2X! W517 Mini commons will usually sell for 4-6X more than the normal size cards, the HOFers maybe 3-4X. The Mini's are far rarer. They were issued 2 ways, in vertical strip like the normal sized ones, and also there is a 1929 4-in-1 Postcard back Exhibit that has the same images and when cut apart they look very similar and are often collected as part of the same set. The colors of some mini's (especially the cut Exhibit ones) are brighter as you will see with this red one. The 1929 Exhibit is now listed on page 139 in the 2006 SCD, this is the first year they are cataloged.

[Archive]

Posted By: jay behrens

I used to own a complete set minis in the red color. I had them at the big Labor Day show in SF in 1989 and no one had a clue what they were at the time.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

[Archive]

Posted By: Anonymous

Hi Brian,
Would you mind contacting us privately, we don't have an email address for you.
Thanks.

[Archive]

Posted By: Brad Green

Here's a picture showing the relative sizes of the 1929 Anonymous 4/1 Exhibit, the 1931 W517 Mini and the 1931 W517. As mentioned in another thread a while back, the cropping of the photos is different between the W517 and the W517 Mini.

The 1929 Anonymous 4/1 Exhibit has a postcard back (at least mine does), so you should be able to easily distinguish between the 1931 W517 Mini (which is blank-backed) and a cut-up 1929 Anonymous 4/1.

[Archive]

Posted By: identify7

The arguements which you offer for w517s being manufactured in Philadelphia are less than convincing.

Specifically:

"1. This set was manufactored in Philadelphia, Pa.(Many convos with workers and citizens from that era saying they remember the cards)

2. If these cards were printed in end of 1930 and or 1931, the Philadelphia A's won the World Series in 1930 against the Reds: That would explain why there is 12 Philadelphia Athletics in this set, by far the most of any team! That would make sense to why a Philadelphia company would produce cards".

Now, I will agree that the A's winning the pennant that year is a reason for including several of them in the set. But that occurance does not support identification of the manufacturers location. Additionally, the fact that citizens located in Philadelphia remember the cards, by itself, does not indicate anything. Do citizens of Toledo, St.Louis, Boston, etc. remember the cards?

Do you have substantiating evidence in support of your 100% certainty regarding the city of w517s manufacture?

[Archive]

Posted By: Zach Rice

.

[Archive]

Posted By: Zach Rice

Well all this W517 Mini talk paid off ! Today at a show I picked up 3 for 15 dollars and the guy has about 5 left I will pick up tommorow.



Edited to ad besides these being blank backed you can tell these are the W517 minis and not a cut up PC because you can see the dotted line on the top border of the Collins and the dotted line on the bottom border of the red tinted common. The PC does not have this line anywhere.

[Archive]

Posted By: Brian

Yes, I know that the cards were printed in Philadelphia. Just trust me, I dont feel like writing a whole page here but I saw it with my own eyes. Champion Draw Box told me everything. 10 years of research on this specific set has paid off.

Anyone with any questions can email me at bjbaseball27@hotmail.com