Collecting Exclusive Series of the T206 Set

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Recently I posted that I "completed" my 2nd set of T206 cards. This one I
considered done with 520 cards. But, this time I enhanced this collection
with 35 of the different back permutations. I still need 5 to have all 40.

Furthermore, to encourage a greater challenge doing this set, I exclusively
collected cards in their respective Series. That is, we know that the first
Series of 150 Subjects actually comprises 156 different cards. Of these, I
had to dismiss Wagner, Plank, and Magie. So, my goal was to acquire the re-
maing 153 cards, preferably with Piedmont 150 backs. However, this is quite
a difficult task, so of course there are a mixture of some Sovereign 150 and
some Sweet Caporal 150 backs. But, the majority of this Series in this set
is Piedmont.

I still need about two dozen to accomplish this mission of all Piedmont.

And, of course we know that in the 460 Series there are only 40 cards that
are exclusive to this Series. So, that was fairly easy to acquire. However,
trying to maintain a single Tobacco brand is not so easy. But, the most I
have acquired are either Sovereign 460 or American Beauty 460. Just because
these are printed in Green ink.

And, all the remaining 327 cards in this set have a variety of 350 Subjects
backs.

So, I am wondering if anyone else on this Forum has attempted to collect
this set exclusively by Series breakdown (as identified in Bill Heitman's book),
or with respect to certain Tobacco brands, or in any other fashion ?

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Posted By: JimB

Ted,
This is an interesting idea. With my set, my goal was simply to get one of every front and along the way get as much back diversity as possible. So I was able to get at least one of each of the different brands and some more variations by series, factory, etc. but I have not added the total because my main interest was different brands and different colors (not factories and districts, etc.). I still would like to get a Lenox brown and Old Mill brown, though I have multiple black versions of each. Having the different brand backs makes for a more interesting look when I brouse through my T206 notebook and see so much diversity in the backs.

But I have thought it would be interesting to try to get a complete "set" of certain brands like EPDG or AB or whatever and get one of every front possible with a certain back. An EPDG set may only have 150 cards (a guess off the top of my head), but it would be very cool. But I have not actually pursued that yet.
JimB

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Posted By: Marc S.

<<But I have thought it would be interesting to try to get a complete "set" of certain brands like EPDG or AB or whatever and get one of every front possible with a certain back. An EPDG set may only have 150 cards (a guess off the top of my head), but it would be very cool. But I have not actually pursued that yet.
JimB>>

Jim: I thought I heard a couple of years ago of some collectors who were doing such set collecting. I'm not sure who precisely they were - but I took it to be more than a rumour. Anyone know for sure?

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Posted By: Tom Botticelli

Hi All,

I have been collecting the T206 for ten years, and my goal was to collect all the fronts, but with cards that have the American Beauty, Carolina Brights, Broad Leaf, Uzit, Hindu (Red and Brown), Lenox and Drum backs. Needless to say I am still working on it although I have sold a couple of difficult backs in the past month. Because this is such a difficult task and time consuming I have decided to only collect the Brown Hindu backs for now. I am currently up to 128, but I do have some duplicates, so about 100 to go (Always need help - I know shameless plug).

I know of two other collectors trying to complete the Carolina Brights and Totstoi sets. I find this way of collecting the T206 set interesting and it helps me at least to stay focused. I am sure their are more collectors who collect all of one particular brand.

Thanks,

Tom

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Posted By: scot reader

Hi Ted,

You wrote: And, of course we know that in the 460 Series there are only 40 cards that are exclusive to this Series. So, that was fairly easy to acquire. However, trying to maintain a single Tobacco brand is not so easy. But, the most I have acquired are either Sovereign 460 or American Beauty 460. Just because these are printed in Green ink.>>

I think there are actually 48 subjects that are exclusive to the 460 series. The additional eight are:

Abbaticchio (Blue Sleeves)
Kleinow (Boston)
Latham
Overall (Hands at Waist)
Schaefer (Washington)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)
Tannehill (Chicago No "L")
Tinker (Bat On)

Were you able to find any of these eight with a 350 back? If so, which ones?

Thanks.

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Posted By: Scott Gross

Great idea:

Glad you brought this topic up. I have been thinking of trying the "150 Subject" sub-set (minus big 3, of course). Quite doable within my interest and budget guidlines.

However, I've searched (and searched, and searched) the net54 posts, and can't find that thread that lists t206's by Backs (and Subject Numbers). If someone has that thread saved, and could link it to this post, that would be great. It could be a nice re-reference to those also thinking about starting an "Exclusive Series" sub-set.

Thanks, Scott

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Posted By: robert a

Hi everyone.

Ted, that's an interesting way to collect the set and it sounds like fun.
It's funny how one's method for collecting this set can change over time and sometime we just fall into our collecting habits.

For years (before I found this board), I only collected hall of famers with backs other than piedmont, sweet cap., polar bear, and sovereign. Then I decided to go for a complete player set with each back represented. After I finish the player set, who knows which way I'll go with it.

Thanks for your info.

Rob

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Guy's,
I've been working on a "super rare" backs set for a while, focusing on American Beauty's, BroadLeaf's, Carolina Brights, Drum, Hindu, Lenox, Piedmont 42's and Uzit's. I will occasionally fill in with a Tolstoi or EDPG, when necessary, but would prefer to build the set with as few of the others as possible. I've built a set before, minus the Big 3-4, but wanted an new, nearly impossible mission. Good luck to all Brian

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Posted By: William Heitman

WOW. This is just what I had in mind when I wrote that crazy little book!! Absolutely great.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Scot Reader

Here are the backs on my cards that you listed:

Abbaticchio (blue sleeve)....Sov 460
Kleinow (Boston).....Sw Cap 350
Latham.......Sov 460
Schaefer (Wash)....Sov 460
F. Smith (Chi & Bos).....Old Mill
Tannehill (no "L").....Sw Cap 460

I listed all the following since I was not clear
which cards you were asking about.

Overall (H-a-W, or Yel Sky)....Sov 350 and Am Bty 350
Overall (Blue Sky).....Pied 460

Tinker (Bat on)....Pied 150
Tinker (Bat off).....Polar Bear
Tinker (Hands on Knees).....Pied 150

Anectdotally speaking, 4 of my above cards support your 8 listed
possible 460 Series (only) cards. However, the documented info on
these cards shows they are also available in the 350 Series.

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Posted By: Ray

Here's a link to a listing of possible backs made by a fellow board member:

http://rdwyer.250free.com/T206Backs.html

Enjoy,
Ray

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Posted By: scot reader

Ted,

Thanks for the information. The two that seem to violate my premise are Kleinow (Boston) Sweet Cap 350 and Tinker (Bat On) Piedmont 150. I don't think any checklist (including Heitman and Lipset) has ever indicated that Tinker (Bat On) is possible with a 150 back. Can you recheck your Tinker (Bat On) card to make sure? Also, are you sure that the Kleinow Sweet Cap 350 you were looking at was not the N.Y. Catching variation? That one is known with 350, but I have never seen Kleinow (Boston) with 350 despite a lot of looking.

Scot

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Scot R.

Sorry guy, I was in a hurry this morning and read adjacent backs in my
T206 album. My Tinker (Bat on) is a Sov 460. And, my Kleinow (Boston) is
a Polar Bear.

What about Overall....which version are you referring to ?

I have 2 - Yellow Sky cards (AB 350 and Sov 350), and
also 2 - Blue Sky cards (P 460 and SC 460)

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Posted By: Scot Reader

Ted,

Thanks for the clarification.

Overall Yellow Sky (sometimes called "Arm Extended") is possible with either a 350 or 460 back.

Overall Blue Sky (sometimes called "Hands at Waist") is possible only with a 460 back (and of course the assorted backs that are found in the 460 series such as Polar Bear and Tolstoi). This is the version of Overall that belies most conventional checklists. Most conventional checklists say it is possible with either a 350 back or a 460 back but it is really not.

Scot

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Scot R.

How certain are you of the exclusivity of these cards in the 460 Series ?

If indeed they are....then I need Kleinow (Boston), Overall (Blue Sky),
F. Smith (Bos & Chi) and Tannehill....either as an American Bty 460 or
Sovereign 460 to maintain my collecting pattern of this Series.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Bill Heitman

This Thread sounds like your kind of "stuff", I am glad I posted it. Now,
if we can stimulate some more responses on this subject, we could gene-
rate some really valuable insight into the different Series of the T206 set.

Already, thanx to Scot, we have perhaps expanded the 460 Series (only)
cards by additional 8 cards. As a serious T206 set collector, I think
most of us really appreciate any additional insight into this set. It is
a constant "work in progress".

I have not noted the 350 Subjects Series here, simply because it com-
prises too many cards. But, I would like (once again) to bring up the
subject of the Joe Doyle "error" card.

The only one I have ever seen, has a Piedmont 350 back. Now, the normal
Joe Doyle cards I have had come with several different Tobacco brand backs
in the 350 Series. So, my question to you is.....does this "error" card
exist only with the Piedmont 350 back ?

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Posted By: Marc S.

I am not an advanced T-206 collector and possess nothing near the collective wisdom of this board.

However, - every master back/front checklist I have seen has indicated that the T-206 Magee with Bat card is not possible with a Hindu back. I know that to be incorrect, as I own a Red Hindu back of this card. Is there a reason this card is not on the checklist? If so - why not? It definitely should be added - as its existence is confirmed [and I know of another collector who owns a similar example, too]

~marc

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Posted By: robert a

marc,

T206 fronts that are possible with the brown hindu backs are NOT possible with the red hindu backs. In another words, there has never been a t206 front that has been found with BOTH the brown hindu and red hindu back.

This explains why your red hindu magee is NOT possible with the brown hindu.

Cheers.

Robert

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Posted By: Scot Reader

Ted,

I have found that aside from six superprinted subjects from the 350/460 series [namely, Chance (Yellow), Chase (Dark Cap), Chase (Blue), Cobb (Red), Evers (Yellow), Matty (Dark Cap)] which appear with ALL 350 and 460 back types EXCEPT American Beauty 350 without Frame, ONLY subjects that are exclusive to the 460 series can be found with any of the following back types: Cycle 460, Sovereign 460, Sweet Caporal 460/30. I have seen the eight aforementioned subjects with at least one of these three back types. Therefore, I believe these subjects to be exclusive to the 460 series.

I also forgot to mention Meyers (Portrait with Cap) in my earlier post. That is also a 460-only subject--bringing the total to 49.

Scot

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Scot

My Chief Meyers has a Sov. 460 back; however, one or 2, or even 12
cards do not necessarily prove your premise. It takes 100's of cards
and many years of sampling to confirm which Series certain players
are in.

Don't misconstrue me, I am not discounting your findings on these
additional 9 cards exclusive only to the 460 Series. Indeed, it seemed
to me that the 40 documented ones were short of the actual number
that really exist.

After a while this became evident to me in searching for these card's
counterparts in the 350 Series, and never finding them. But, not having
sampled 100's of any given T206 cards like Bill Heitman, Lew Lipset,
and other T206 experts in the hobby, I could not be certain. So, how
confident are you regarding these 9 cards (and perhaps others); and,
what measures have you used to determine this ?

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Posted By: Scot Reader

Hi Ted,

I have studied the fronts/backs of over 20,000 T206s and I am confident of my findings. Bill Heitman did amazing work especially considering there was no Internet in those days but The Monster's checklist has shortcomings which I think even Bill has acknowledged on this board. As two examples, there are certain subjects listed as 350/460 subjects in The Monster that are actually 350-only [I refer to Bender (Trees), Fiene (Portrait), Fiene (Throwing) and in all likelihood Dahlen (Brooklyn)]. There are other subjects listed as 350/460 in The Monster that are actually 460-only subjects [I refer to Abbaticchio (Blue Sleeves), Kleinow (Boston), Latham, Meyers (Portrait), Overall (Hands at Waist), Schaefer (Washington), F. Smith (Chicago & Boston), Tannehill (Chicago No "L") and Tinker (Bat On)].

My conclusions are not based solely on the absence of these subjects in certain series over the 20,000+ sample. For example, I didn't conclude that Latham is a 460-only subject just because I never saw Latham with a 350 back. My conclusions are also confirmed by the presence these subjects with a set of backs that is characteristic of a particular series. For example, I have seen Latham with Cycle 460, Sovereign 460 and Sweet Cap 460/30, three backs which over the 20,000+ sample ONLY appeared on the 49 460-only subjects and the 6 350/460 superprinted subjects that I referenced in my earlier email. It is Latham's presence with these three backs, as well as his absence with any 350 back, that led me to conclude that Latham is a 460-only subject.

Scot

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Scot

Thanks for a great answer to my question. I appreciate
and admire all the extensive work you put into this set.
I started collecting T-cards in 1981 and over the years
I have had approximately 5000 - 6000 T206's. But, I never
gave much thought to the different Series until the past
4 years when I started putting together a 2nd set.

I regret not being diligent enough to record all the dif-
ferent backs as you have done. There were too many other
things going on. Since I am retired now I am able to "dig"
more into the nitty-gritty and gain more insight into all
the BB card sets that I have collected.

I have a feeling there must be at least one more card ex-
clusive to the 460 Series, for it seems the T206 designers
printed cards in groups of 50's. Do you have any additional
thoughts on this theory ?

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Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted

Recently acquired this Cobb to continue my pursuit
of all the 153 cards in the Piedmont 150 Series in
my set.
Only need 20 non-star cards to go to complete this run.