How Tough Are E107's?

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Posted By: DJ

1) Any known sets around?
2) What do the keys sell for?
3) How tough are they on a scale of 1-10?

I have two in weak condition and looking over a past Mastro, the prices were crazy for small lots. In one Mastro description, they talk about perhaps one of a handful of Lajoie's to exist.

Any background on this set would be much appreciated.

DJ

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Posted By: dennis

http://www.caramel-cards.com/e107.html

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

....

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Posted By: Brian McQueen

Hi DJ,

I actually have an article on this set coming out in the July issue of Old Cardboard. I've actually been working on it the past several months and have received the feedback of numerous board members (for which I'm very thankful) as well.

I'll try to answer a few of your questions without spoiling the article

Of all the Caramel sets to try to put together, this set would have to rank amongst the most difficult. It has 147 different players, not including some of the varients. No one has ever completed the entire set although a few people are working on it. Frankly, its not easy to land even a single common although they will surface from time to time on Ebay. Even the worst beaters tend to run within the $200-$250 range. If you have a card that grades at a 1 and is somewhat decent, it would possibly fall in the $350-$450 range. These figures would cover just your basic commons mind you. The rare team varients out there, overprint backs and "Type 2" cards all have the potential to command prices in the "thousands of dollars" range. Anything that grades above a 1 also shoots the value upwards considerably.

e107s are very difficult to get in any grade above a 1 actually. I can't remember the last time I saw one above a 4. You really don't see any high grade examples out there at all. They are so difficult to find anyhow but examples from this set that grade a 2 or higher are extremely scarce.

HOFers are more of the same. They are at the top of many collector's want lists and competition for them is fierce on the VERY rare occasions they are made available to the public. On average, you only see 1-2 in public auctions annually. I can think of only one I saw in 2004 altogether. As far as the "keys" are concerned, I don't know what the market would be for those as they've never appeared for sale since I've been in the hobby. Rest assured that if a Matty, Wagner or Young was ever made available, it would probably fall in the 25000-50000 range at least as competition would be insanely fierce over it.

Hope that helps. Good luck with your collection,

Brian

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Brian is dead on accurate.

Here is one that I bought privately...

and the price was definitely in the range that he mentioned.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Brian:

Will you be talking in the article about how the Type II cards are NOT "trimmed"??

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Posted By: DJ

Thanks so much for your input Brian. It was very helpful. I have two hammered examples that I purchased at the Trop World show in 1989 for $20 a piece, a Tenney and a Dougherty. With my insane 'two down, one forty+ to go' philosophy, I may have to scrap that game plan.

Last night I went through roughly ten-twelve old Mastro catalogs, (it was late, I may have missed some) I found three ungraded singles for sale, two of commons as single lots. Looking forward to the article.

Thanks

DJ

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Posted By: Brian McQueen

Thanks DJ, the article is in the final stages and hopefully it will provide a lot of useful info for beginners and advanced collectors alike. We've found quite a bit of information on the Breisch Williams company as well, including a nice photo of the original factory so it should be a great read.

Hal, I sent you a response to your question as well. Check your Email when you have a minute

I just noticed something else interesting. e107 player photos were also used in other issues, as many people know, such as w600, Fan Craze, etc...but Hal, your Cy Young has lettering on his jersey where none exists on my w600 Young....



Interesting little inconsistency there.....

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Posted By: scott brockelman

i feel a "hal's card justification" thread about to unfold.

for years it was thought that type 2's were possibly cut from an ad piece or even some type of packaging, as they are on a heavier gray colored stock.
almost all are hand cut and cut very tight to the borders. thus, i don't think the word trimmed would apply, having had several type 2's(including hal's), i have only seen one that was full sized.

to contradict the "ad piece" theory i have one of the most desirable cards of the entire set that is a type 2 WITH the breisch williams overprint, would seem likely they would not stamp the ad piece.

price wise the type 2's blow the book away, just move the comma over to the right.

scott

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Posted By: TheRod

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=86840&item=5198596408&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

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Posted By: Brian McQueen

Was pleased to pick this one up from the Post Office a little while ago. Flick is probably in the "tougher half" of HOFers in this set and the grade is pretty nice for an e107 as well. Prices on HOFers are out of control though. I saw an e107 McGinnity on Mile High that was a SGC 10 go for over $5K. Anyone on the board win that one?

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Posted By: DJ

The seller who sold two e107's last month just put up three more and also has SGC graded Lajoie, Flick and Chesbro coming up.

DJ

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Posted By: Marc S.

Has anyone ever seen the E107 Cy Young PSA 8 card? It is owned by one of the more noted collectors in the hobby - and I've been assured by him that it is a beauty. I just would love to see a picture or a scan of the card, knowing what a tough issue this is in any condition above good.

Any insight is appreciated.

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Posted By: Andy Baran

Brian,

In my experience, Flick is one of the easier E107 Hall of Famers to find (not that any of them are easy). I have seen several of them available over the past few years. Still a great card, and quite rare.

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Posted By: DJ

A Flick 30 or 40 is going up on eBay in the three weeks is what I hear.

DJ

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Posted By: Brian McQueen

Andy, thanks for the kind words. In my experience, I've seen a couple Flicks, but I've seen more Planks, McGinnitys, Waddells, etc...etc...so I figured it's somewhere in the middle leaning towards one of the more difficult ones.

DJ, I wouldn't count on it

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Posted By: Andy Baran

Brian,

You are correct that Plank, Waddell and McGinnity are among the easier Hall of Famers. In addition, I would add Flick, Young, and maybe Willis. I have seen almost 3 times as many Flick's as Lajoie's.

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Posted By: Craig

Marc,
The highest graded Young by psa is a 5. I believe this was sold in a Mastro auction for a little more than 8k. There is a psa 8 Plank that was also sold by mastro.
Do you know of a Young that has been graded an 8?

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Posted By: Ben

tough:

Chance
Delahanty
Mathewson
Hanlon
Wagner
Wallace
Beckley

Those are just my observations of course, from having closely followed (but never successfully being able to acquire) e107 hofers. Andy has been at it with these longer than I have, so what would you add or subtract from that list Andy? The Flick has shown up a few times, as have the other cards mentioned (including lajoie). But it being a e107 hofer it is of course a rare and oustanding card that must carry tremendous value in today's market, esp. in that condition. SGC 40! How do you come up with this great stuff Brian!

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Posted By: DJ

Hey, I wouldn't throw Elmer out of bed. Would love to own one. I have two commons and I'm not sure how far I want to carry this obsession since I'm trying to complete other projects. Paying $800 for very low quality commons is maddening to me but I guess that's the attraction as well.

Like seeing the same handful of names bidding on the three up on eBay now, all off to an early start with a week to go.

How often do the Type 2's show up and is there a denominator of sorts to their establishing their value?

DJ

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Posted By: Andy Baran

Ben's list is pretty accurate regarding the toughest E107's in my opinion. The only addition that I would make is Joe Kelly, which may actually be the toughest of them all. Type 2's are also very difficult. I believe that there are only 2 or 3 known of each of the cataloged HOFers (Lajoie,Delahanty,Keeler). I have heard that there are other uncataloged Type 2 HOFers out there, but I have not been able to confirm this.

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Posted By: Julie

W600 or a Copperplate or a M101-1. I'm perfectlty happy with my Thomas. When I see the Young or the Flick, I mainly think,. "I can't afford that"!

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Posted By: Marc S.

Craig:

Yes - I meant the Plank PSA 8. I didn't recall it being sold by Mastro - but I have only been following their auctions for five years or so. I know the person who bought the card - and he still has it in his collection. I just would love to know what it looks like [I can imagine].

~ms

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Posted By: Andy Baran

I remember the PSA 8 Plank in Mastro. The card is awesome.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

The PSA 8 Plank card looks just like this:




The only difference is that SGC grades their cards a lot stricter!

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Posted By: Ben

The Gleason is a former Buck Barker card, as evidenced by the career stats and bio information red-penned all over the back. Not the best shape, but it was still one of my favorites. These cards are pretty distinctive, so if you all could keep an eye out for them while I'm away for the summer that would be much appreciated!

Fun thread, keep the pics rolling. Has anyone ever seen/owned a Chance? I agree with Andy that the Joe Kelly must be toughie...at least I've never seen one myself.

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Posted By: Andy Baran

There was a Chance in the large E107 group that was auctioned by Lew Lipset a few years ago. That is the only one that I have seen personally, but I know of a few others.

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Posted By: Bruce Babcock

$300 for the pair in 1999.

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Posted By: Bryan Long

What makes these cards so rare? I know that how many were printed means something but were these printed in one small area by a small company. Obviously these were not widely distributed like e95 or other caramel cards that are more widely collected. I'm just curious as to why finding these cards in anything but a 1 or worse is the norm. I can remember bidding on a few of these about a year ago and the prices even then were high and I never really knew what the reason was other than the fact that they were rare cards to have.

If you find one - even beat up - for $200 are you stupid if you don't buy?

After looking at Andy's e107 Mathewson I have to say that it is the coolest Mathewson card I have ever seen! Great looking card.