Zeenuts, complete collection

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Posted By: jay behrens

It was mentioend on the one of the boards that John England owned a complete run of every Zeenut known. I questioned that statement and now have the definative answer direct from Mark Macrae with personal notes to me deleted:

Mark wrote:

...Nobody has ever finished off Zeenuts. Back in the late 70's Lou Chericoni of Walnut Creek came the closest (needing Under 30), but he sold the collection to an advanced collector in Fort Smith Arkansas (John England) who used to run Vivian's Book Store and had assembled a great collection in his own right.... A few years later, England sold his entire collection to Larry Fritsch. Larry still has the Zeenut collection, but has only been able to pick up one or two cards from the list in the last 20 years. Additionally, many of the sets have been examined closer & numerous printing variations have been identified adding more than 100 cards to the "Horne "list. (Jim Horne published the best checklist for Zeenuts....to date...in 1977. From that list there are three collections needing less than 60 cards...including mine, Dobbins and Chericoni's / Fritsch's).

Jay



I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

want lists?

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Posted By: dennis

so, i wonder if you put the big 3 together if you would have a complete set? or is that impossible?

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Posted By: Adam J. Baxter

I too, wouldn't mind seeing...THE LIST. Like the N172 Old Judge set, and I know that's a completely different animal, I just don't think the entire Zeenuts run will ever really be "completed". Mark had posted on Leon's board recently saying that the only obstacle getting to 3000 is money, beyond that is years and patience. Mark stated that there were still uncataloged examples, examples where 5 or less are known and there are variations and errors. Even if a collector could find that last 30-60 cards or whatever on their list, there would always be that nagging feeling that somehow, somewhere there was another Zeenut yet to be discovered.

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Posted By: Julie

of how many each of the big three have with coupons, as opposed to without (like all of mine...)

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Posted By: Paul

Is there any known reason why some of the Zeenuts are so scarce? "Less than 5 known" sounds pretty scarce, even by the standards of this board. Are all of the super scarce ones from the same year or same few years? Were they pulled from production early because they stopped playing (like Claxton who played 2 games, I think)?

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Posted By: Adam J. Baxter

Paul,
I'm exhausted, so please excuse me if my post is in any was incoherent. I'm not sure why those "5 or less examples known" cards are so scarce. Perhaps Mark or another veteran Zeenut collector knows the story behind their scarcity? When I first read Mark's comment regarding "several hundred different cards with fewer than five documented examples" I was blown away to say the least. I knew about some of the scarce ones (Bohne, Arbuckle, Claxton, Thorpe), but I hadn't heard about all the others.

Mark MaCrae had an auction ad in a 1997 issue of VCBC with a bunch of Zee-Nuts including Arbuckle, Claxton, and Thorpe. In his description he had some figures about known examples on those scarce three.

They are:


1916 Jimmy Claxton- About 2 dozen examples documented.
1919 Fatty Arbuckle - Less than 20 examples known.
1922 Jim Thorpe - About 2 dozen examples known.

I'm not sure if those figures are still correct.

From what I understand, Arbuckle is scarce due to his murder trial. The public disagreed with the acquittal verdict and destroyed items relating to him.

As far as Claxton and Thorpe go, it may be due to issues of race and cards were either destroyed or pulled. That might be the situation for the Claxton, but then again Thorpe was pretty well-known and popular at the time, so I'm probably way off on my guess were he's concerned. I honestly don't know.

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Posted By: Julie

1917 White Sox set), but is it a rare Zeenut? My impression is, no, it isn't.

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Posted By: Adam J. Baxter

McMullen, etc. are probably just tougher to find because of their connection to the Black Sox scandal rather than just being scarce. I haven't been in the vintage game as long as some folks on the Forum, but I have to say that I've seen far more of the 1919 White Sox player Zee-Nuts than Claxton, Arbuckle, or Thorpe. I think out of all of them, I've seen Williams the least. I haven't been in the hunt for these, so I'm not 100% sure how often these come up for sale.

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Posted By: leon

There are only 3 McMullins with the coupons still on. I sold one last year in a private sale and it came from outside the hobby, along with about 100 other Zeenuts w/coupons (and a few without)....regards

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Posted By: Adam J. Baxter

Jim Horne featured an example from each of the sets with the coupons still intact in his Zeenuts book. I don't know if they we're all his, but at one time there was a full type set with coupons.

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

book or could copy it for me......is copyright still in effect on it? I'd pay.....and pay him for the royalties!

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Posted By: Bob Marquette

Thanks for clearing that up. Jay. In retrospect John (England) probably never claimed he had every single Zeenut ever produced but that his Zeenut collection was "complete," meaning he couldn't find any more. In any event, his Zeenut collection was immense and beautiful. I talked to John a few weeks ago for the first time in 10 years. He doesn't have a single card any more, this from a guy whose collection was as complete and nice as anyone in the Mid-South. He now collects old records and loves old jazz recordings. Funny the way things work out. He did mention to me how much his collection would be worth today as opposed to how much he sold it for in the early 80's. I think we can all echo that sentiment...
TB