Will Card be Ungradeable

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Posted By: matthew

Hello, I just started collecting vintage and pre war cards and was wondering. Will a small marker spot on a baseball card make it ungradeable. I'm new to this and couldn't find anything specific with a search in this forum.

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Posted By: Judge Dred

I guess it would depend on the mark.

For example: The N300 Mayo cards have a black back and a black border that surrounds the front edge of the card (similar to the 71 Topps BB cards). If a BLACK marker was used on it then PSA or SGC would probably reject it for color being added.

If it was a black mark on a white (or other color than black) back ground then you probably have a pretty good chance of it being graded by PSA with the MK (mark) qualifier. SGC would probably also grade the card but they don't have qualifiers which means that they may penalize it a bit more for this type of defect.

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Posted By: matthew

Well, the mark is a little dot on the bottom corner. The color of the card is green and the mark is green. I'm not 100% sure it's a green marker spot but I don't think that just one little spot is going to be a darker green than the rest of the card.

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

been altered, PSA will sometimes grade as qualifier 'MK' if it's not done to try to enhance the card but only as something that was added to the card.

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Posted By: matthew

Thats what I thought, but I'm not getting the difference between "enhanced and added to". I'm guessing it was chipped on the corner and someone marked it with the marker to cover the chip. If it didn't have the mark it looks like it would be a 6 or 7 grade. I wonder how much the price would be affected. The card is actually a 54 Aaron rookie and even though this is a pre war forum the grading would still apply to post war cards. I'm trying to learn quickly and am currently buying 54 and older cards.

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Posted By: Ron

Matt

The difference between enhanced and added to is a matter of intent. For example, I had a T201 Mecca Double Folder card of Tris Speaker that has mainly soft pastel colors that are part of the card. Someone over the course of time managed to dot one of the corners with what looked like a black felt tip pen. This is something that would be considered "Added to". Conversely, I've had some 1971 Topps cards which have a solid black border where people have added black marker to areas of weakness thus enhancing the card.

Hope that helps.

Ron

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Posted By: Julie

a little pen mark in the white border of a T206--someone was discussing the card with a pen in his hand, and got the pen too close to the card while he was discussing the border. This is obviously not "enhancement"!

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Posted By: matthew

Well, the mark I think was obviously done on purpose. I'm wondering if I should try to return it considering the amount I payed for it. He didn't say anything about the mark and said it needed grading in the post. He also used the words that he pulled this card. I guess that means he pulled it from an originall unopened package maybe. Other than the mark and the rough cut on the edges it's in awsome shape. If it's worth the 700 I payed for it then maybe I would keep it even with the mark.

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Posted By: Howie

Maybe he pulled the card from the stack of cards bodybagged from grading.

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Posted By: andy becker

hi matthew
sounds like the card was described in a "post" or auction. was it an ebay auction? i'd like to know who's selling such. i would definetly inform the seller, perhaps they would want it back or they might offer a % discount...if they're reputable. it should be returned if the purchase price does not reflect the alteration. there are other 54 aaron's available.
in any event, welcome aboard...and best of luck with this situation.

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Posted By: Todd (nolemmings)

It is a question of intent and appearance. If someone is trying to mask a flaw with ink, it will likely be rejected. If the appearance makes it look like someone has tried to mask it, it will likewise be rejected, even if the mark somehow "innocently" got there. If it does not mask, then it is likely considered a flaw that will lead to a downgrade or qualifier (depending on what grading service you use), but should be graded.

As for your quote:
<The card is actually a 54 Aaron rookie and even though this is a pre war forum the grading would still apply to post war cards. I'm trying to learn quickly and am currently buying 54 and older cards.>

Hey, lots of us collect post-war stuff too. If you have questions about or scans of cool stuff from the 50's, feel free to post them here.

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Posted By: andy becker

you said it todd, bring on the '50s

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Posted By: warshawlaw

how on earth can you divine what was being thought by the marker-er when he put the pen to the card? I have always thought it was asinine for the service to grade a card with writing on it in some cases but reject the card as altered in other cases. Ditto for trimming--it never made sense to me that a card with a corner nipped off or a hole in it gradable in poor condition but one with a side shaved is totally ungradable. We need an "authentic" grade for these kinds of cards.

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Posted By: Josh K.

Wont GAI grade the card as authentic even if the mark is deemed to be an alteration?

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Posted By: Judge Dred

I thought PSA offered this service. I called them but nobody could explain what their "Authentic" designation indicated. It's been a while since I looked at the PSA web site. Perhaps they've corrected this oversight and now provide an explanation of the "Authentic" designation (for their slabs) on their web site.

GAI appears to offer this service. There have been obviously altered cards encapsulated in GAI holders that have the "Authentic" designation.

At the national the SGC representatives said that they would probably begin providing this service soon. Does anyone know if they offer this yet?

Pro grading - lets not go there - nothing is alered to them. I would love to see someone post a scan of a PRO rejection slip that states the card was trimmed. We all need a little humor in our lives.

I think the "Authentic" designation would benefit the hobby to some degree. It will definitely benefit the grading service "bottom lines."

The funny part is that I think people will actually pay more for an "Authentic" designated card than for the same lower end graded card. I will only speculate that the rational for this will be the aesthetics of the altered card versus a poor or fair condition card.

I can't wait to see how many N300 Mayos start showing up in "Authentic" slabs. I would venture to guess that a lot of these cards have been rejected by grading services in the past because the black borders and backs have had "color added" to enhance the visual appeal.

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Posted By: Anonymous

Hello, actually I'm deployed to Iraq right now so I don't have a scaner to show you the card but I just thought of posting the ebay post.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5138353484&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT

There's the card. You can kinda see the dot a little if you look close. That little camera is covering it a little. I guess it's not the best time to start collecting while deployed across the world, but I had some extra money burning a hole in my pocket. Thanks for the offer about posting my questions. I'll definalty take you guys up on it. I was also biding on some t206's and notice that the person has posted quite a few but some have grill marks on the backs. Are they obvious fakes. There was one with a polar bear back that I would like to get if it's real. I can't tell if that card has marks on it or not because of the color.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=86840&item=5147077511&rd=1

There is one that has the marks. Any help would be appreciated. You know I also bought some lots of 53 bowman and ended up with a couple cards that were trimmed. At least I think they are. My first rip off I think. Maybe I sould start leaning to pre graded cards now. I really hope they didn't sell them to me on purpose. I hate people that would do that. I'm learning my leasons the hard way I guess.

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Posted By: jack goodman

Stay safe.

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Posted By: tbob

Can anyone else verify this? The reason I ask is I have some high end caramel cards which I'd like to get in to slabs for protection and storage purposes which have allegedly either been trimmed or enhanced with color. I could care less about the grades, just want them protected. I wonder if you specifically have to ask GAI for that connotation (????).

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Posted By: Scott Elkins

it is used for cards like strip cards, which were hand cut. I do know that when I firt joined GAI, I sent them several T206's - a couple came back "trimmed" and ungraded. These were just O/C, as I sent them to another company and they graded (I believe one was a Matty)!!!!!! Anyway, one of my recent "batches" that came back from them had a GD/VG strip card of Ty Cobb - it is slabbed "Authentic" by GAI. I don't think they will slab cards authentic, unless they were meant to have been cut (like a strip card).