Show and Tell

[Archive]

Posted By: Paul

I thought I'd share with the group an interesting card I recently picked up for an arm and a leg. It's a cabinet-style card (though not a true cabinet) of Rube Waddell, pictured with Los Angeles of the Pacific Coast League in 1902, published by the S.R. Church Company. It's a little larger than a T3 (about 7.5" x 10.75") on stock that is slightly thinner than a T3.

Let me know if any of you can think of an earlier minor league card (or premium or schedule or whatever) of a Hall of Famer.

By the way, my apologies for the low quality scan, but this was the largest image I could post.

Paul



[edited to crop picture]

[Archive]

Posted By: Paul

Here is another card that I recently picked up that I'm particularly happy to have. It's a W503 Sisler. Certainly not as unusual as the Waddell, but I've been looking for a long time for any W503.

Paul

[Archive]

Posted By: Max

Paul

The first image is almost identical to the full page Waddell photo in probably the finest base ball book, Seymour Church's Base Ball, 1845-1871. However, your image doesn't have a page number at the top, and has different wording at the bottom. It may have been some sort of proof or promo item for the book, but I will leave that to others who are more no doubt more knowledgeable in this area.

Max

[Archive]

Posted By: Paul

Bob McCann, who sold the card to me, told me about the S.R. Church book and the Waddell picture in it. I would love to see it. And if you know more about the book, please let me know.

You probably can't tell from the scan, but the fine print at the bottom of the Waddell picture says that this picture is available from the S.R. Church Company for 5 cents. (I suspect that offer is no longer valid). So it seems clear to me that this wasn't a proof for the photo in the book, but was separately distributed. The fine print also mentions a 4 volume set of books about baseball that's available for 10 cents per volume. Perhaps those four volumes are (or include) the book that you mentioned.

[Archive]

Posted By: The other One (Julie)

(the trimmed California League Hess Ryan from ebay; the Andrews and Glasscock (N162) from Terry Knouse).

[Archive]

Posted By: Max Weder

Paul

I have never seen any of the other volumes of Church. I have a scan of the ad at work from TSN which lists at least another volume, but I don't know whether it was actually published. I've been told that Church's office/warehouse was destroyed in a fire. I'm including a scan of the book cover



Max

[Archive]

Posted By: Max Weder

Paul

Can you tell me what the last wording says? I can only make out "When ordering, only Vol I is ..." and then it adds " P...? George Wright and Golden Gate, 5 Cents per copy".

I shared a month or two ago a scan of my copy of Church which was inscribed by George Wright [the signature looks very much like the George Wright (consensus of the thread), inscribed 1867-1918]. I'd be very interested in thus finding out what the entire caption for the card says.

Thanks,

Max

[Archive]

Posted By: Max

Paul

Here's another photo from Church, Max.

[Archive]

Posted By: Paul

Max,


Thanks for the photos. If you have a chance, can you post a scan of the Waddell photo from your book? Also, what are the dimensions of the book?

Here's the full text of the caption on mine: "Price of this picture is 5 cents per copy, and is published by S.R. Church, 307 Sansome Street, San Francisco, who sells those Fresh Snowballs, the kind that do not melt, and Pig Iron, hard and soft. Analyses of Pig Iron, $3.00 per copy; also Base Ball Schedule and Memorandum book, four volumes, 10 cents per volume. When ordering state which volume is wanted. Picture of George Wright and Golden Gate, 3 cents per copy."

There are also a couple of credits. Just below the photo on the left it says "Press of Jos. Winterburn Co." Just below the photo on the right it says "Plates by Bolton & Strong." Finally, in the lower right corner of the photo it says "Thors, photo."

Paul

[Archive]

Posted By: Ryan Christoff

Paul,

I'd be interested to hear (privately) the details about your purchase. I won this item in Bob McCann's last auction and wound up returning it for the following reasons:

1. It is trimmed and wasn't described as such in the auction description. I still would have bid on it, but not nearly as much as I did.

2. It is not a cabinet card as described in the auction, but it printed on paper about the same thickness as a plate in a book.

Since then I have seen a Seymour Church book in person and looked specifically at the Waddell plate for comparison and it is absolutely differently from the plates in the book. In addition to the different text, the paper is also different, both in color and thickness of stock.

I collect Rube Waddell items and was very excited to see this when it came up. Needless to say, it was a huge let down when I received what I thought would be an untrimmed 1902 cabinet card.

I don't mean to bash the item as it is still amazing and if you ever decide you don't need it any more I hope you'll contact me.

I just wish it had been listed properly so my bid could have been place accordingly.

Very nice pick-up, Paul.

-Ryan

[Archive]

Posted By: Max Weder

Paul

I'll try and get a photo of Waddell uploaded from the book tonight. The large volume Church is about 10 3/4" x 14". It is clearly different than the four volume 10 cents editions, as I imagine the quality of this book would have lead to a similar $3.00 price as Mr. Church's Pig Iron treatise. The baseball book is subtitled: "The History, Statistics and Romance of the American National Game from its Inception to Present Time".

I've seen ads for the Pig Iron book, but have never seen the book. I am at a loss as to what Fresh Snowballs that don't melt are.

Max

[Archive]

Posted By: Jay Miller

Paul---I saw this piece at a show in New York about a year ago. It was being offered at $600 and I passed. I had a change of heart and found the dealer who had it a few weeks later and it had already been sold.

[Archive]

Posted By: The Other One (Julie)

All I did was post my three lastest acquisitions. Sorry if I appeared to be trying to "derail the discussion" of of Paul's card, and the Church book. Had no intention of doing that.

I don't really mind totally anonymous posters, but this one seems to have a thing against me...wish he'd take a long walk off a short something.

My FIRST name goes with each post, and my sign-in gives my last name as well, with tiny letters. I think everyone knows that.

[Archive]

Posted By: petecld

Title doesn't say show and tell for all. Julie, seriously, why don't you start your own thread called "Julie's Collection" where you can post pictures of every war memorial and wonderfully shilled card from your collection and when people want to see what you have they will know where to go and you won't have to worry about interrupting other disccussions.

To "anonymous": I understand how you feel but taking shots at someone without an ID is wrong.

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe P.

Now I have to get a 52 inch screen.

--------------
Petecld, I agree with you.
Taking shots without an ID is not only wrong, but a sign of a wimp.

[Archive]

Posted By: The Other One

And what the hell is wrong with YOU, Pete? The one card was from ebay, and not shilled, and the other two were from Terry Knouse, and also not shilled (how could they be). OH Yes, I bought TWO N162 Andrews lately, sorry not to have kept you up with the intimate details of my purchases. I have no intention of putting my entire collection on the Forum, I apologized for the "memorial" Japanese cards, and I really don't know what else I can do before you guys quit picking on me, for reasons of your own, which I can hardly suppose have anything to do with me, since my infractions are relatively minor.

I posted 3. Small. Cards. None was shilled. All were recent acquisitions. All were in response to the name of the column, "Show and Tell."

Do I really have to apologize for Pete's and anonymous' bad manners as well as my own!

And I have no intention of quitting the Forum, if that's what you're drooling about...

And, Pete, you also understand anonymous' "She who cannot be named..." coming from someone who constantly posts anonymously, and constantly picks on me?

[Archive]

Posted By: petecld

Sorry Julie there was a specific exchange going on regarding a specific collectible when you decided to throw in your post. Like I said before, if you want to show your cards I think that's fine, just put them all in one area so when there is an exchange going on it doesn't need to be interrupted.

...and you might want to take another pain pill. If you think I'm the one posting anonymously and then replying to my own posts I would have to be as loopy as some "other ones" on this board. No, I don't log in. I don't need to because when you do as I do and ALWAYS use your name identifying yourself when you make a posting it's a moot point.

To Bill Cornell,
If you have the time and feel the need to, PLEASE trace the anonymous posts and my posts and publish the address results. I have NOTHING to hide.

[Archive]

Posted By: The Other One (Julie)

rupted your DEEP, PROFOUND AND LENGTHY DISCUSSION with an all-night filllibuster! Good Grief!!!

Why on earth should anyone suspect you of being the anonymous poster when you were twice as rude, and twice as effectively, as he was, and you signed your name!

And I'm sure you'll be delighted to know that the pain is much better today; if you think my reasoned and well-thought-out words are indicative of being high or in pain, think again...

[Archive]

Posted By: Max

Paul

Here's the photo of Rube from the book.

Please let me know if you would like a larger scan. I can e-mail it to you, and it has been also uploaded to www. ettinger.ca/waddell.jpg (without of course the spaces, inserted so the large image doesn't load here)



Max

[Archive]

Posted By: Paul

Max,

Thanks again. If you could, please email me the scan at pstewart@kmob.com. Also, what are the dimensions of the book?


Julie and Pete,

Sorry for my ambiguous title. It really was my intention to invite everyone to post some of their favorite acquisitions. I'm glad for all of the attention my Waddell got and the information people gave me, but I didn't intend to hog the show.

Paul

[Archive]

Posted By: The Other One (Julie)

became very intricate and profound--but it didn't seem all that important to me at the time, OR VERY FAR ADVANCED, so I took the title of the thread "Show and Tell" at face value, and posted my three little cards.

I apologize if I made any waves, but it seems to me that besides Pete and an anonymous poster who's been following me around for a week, everyone else just ignored my post and went about their business, as they would have if it hadn't been there!

Anyway, I hope so.

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

I, for one, love your posts. Trying to stay on topic is great but there isn't one of us on this board that doesn't have at least one screw loose so getting a "little" off topic is no biggie (imo again). You just took the title of the thread the way I took it... Also, please don't think that everyone is always against you. They aren't. I think we all have our own allies (and a few foes) but that's what makes the world go round. I sure wish we could have drank a cup of coffee together at the National. Maybe next year. regards

[Archive]

Posted By: petecld

Julie,

Yes folks, I'm the evil one. I had the nerve to go against the patron saint of collecting - St. Jules.

I actually had the nerve to find it wrong she condoned a crime(shilling), felt that posting pictures of Baseball cards was trivializing the memories of people who died in a war and had the nerve to suggest Julie start a personal colelction thread so she could post her entire collection and not just have her post come up hap-hazard between "converstions" between other users that might be regarding a specific topic or collectible. That's the kinda (bleep) I am.

Get off your holier-than-thou soap box Julie. In your mind I know I have done the unthinkable - I criticized you. Poor dear, did the bad man 'urt your wittle fewings? Grow up. You don't want to be picked on then stop emailing me and stop making snide little remarks in your threads because everytime you do so I'm going to respond.

By the way - I'm also the (bleep) who has defended you in the past and even have helped you post images when you had no clue on how to do so but that seems to be forgotten and that's fine.

Oh, and Bill told me the anonymous posts were by an AOL user - which I am not. And try to find my ID in the left column. No, I didn't log in but as is ALWAYS the case you can see I have used my board "name" so you at least correct yourself by claiming I post anonymously.

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

You ain't the evil one and neither is Julie.....this is cards for gosh sakes.....let's have a group hug later

[Archive]

Posted By: The other One (Julie)

will you tell your GREAT-GRANDKIDS that the Japanese are dispicable people, and killed their (your great-grandkids')relatives, and should be ignored? You know, if we all continued to hate everyone against whom we had fought a war, nobody in the world would be speaking to eachother --right now!

I've answered all the questions you raised in a long e-mail--as you well know. By the way, how old were you at the end of WW2-- minus 40? I was 10...I remember the headlines. And the article my father wrote about my (ONE) relative killed by the Japanese ended "And let your blood cry out to them from the ground." But he wasn't thinking about the Japanese; he was thinking about the forces that make people go to war. He was one of those nasty PACIFISTS. Like me.

And don't think I've forgotten that you posted my first scan for me--that info might have gotten left on the cutting-room floor... guess you're sorry now, huh?

ONE MORE THING: I have said, five different ways in almost as many languages that I KNOW YOU WERE NOT THE ANONYMOUS poster! PLEASE<> at least, let that drop! Je sais que vous n'etais pas l'ecriver annonime..oh my aching spelling...!

[Archive]

Posted By: petecld

Julie,

You truly are a pathetic old fool of you think you're going to twist my comments and make them racist. I will tell my GREAT-GRANDKIDS that beginning in the 1930s the Japanese GOVERNMENT took aggressive actions against a number of countries that resulted in a World War that resulted in the deaths of many thousands of innocent people from a number of countries including Japan.

I will also tell them there are cowards in this world who felt we should have done nothing. Guess you're sorry we helped to stop Hitler too huh?

I will gladly supply ANYONE with the E-mail I sent Julie explaining how I felt about her ignorant post memorializing the deaths of people by posting images of Baseball cards, just ask for a copy. I NEVER said that the innocent people from Japan who died in the war shouldn't be remembered or that I hated them, all I said was that remembering them by putting up pictures of Baseball cards was stupid. Julie, are you capable of distinguishing between the two concepts?

If you don't want emails Julie, stop sending them. YOU emailed ME. Do you remember that? I realize it was almost 24 hours ago so it may be hazy for you by now.

No, I'm not sorry I helped you in the past. I feel helping you says something about the type of person I am. But certainly forgetting about it and being unappreciative says a lot about who you are.

[Archive]

Posted By: The other One (Julie)

.....

Oh, thanks, Leon; glad I haven't alienated everyone...

Sorry, I can't send you the patch of Japanese basaeball cards, with the offensive mention of the atom-bomb, because Bill zapped it before I had a chance to copy it. People I know who are most sympathetic to the Japanese did not find it an unsuitable memorial...but I'd better quit talking about it.

[Archive]

Posted By: Elliot

Julie, that's the point that Pete was trying to make. Why do we need a memorial to the Japanese on a "BASEBALL CARD" forum? Pete is not the enemy a lot of people, including myself, agree with him about the hijacking of threads.

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe P.

Back on VJ Day, I was 14 years old.
Every time that they show on TV the VJ celebration on Broadway and Times Square, it draws a great smile.
Not just because it was one of the most historical events of my young life, but more because it was a day not like all days, filled with those events that illuminate our times.
Visualize if you will, two young Latino teenagers from Spanish Harlem wanting to be part of this magnificent day. It was the American thing to do.
We took the Lexington Ave subway downtown to Times Square.
Folks, I've been to Times Square for the dropping of the ball during New Years Eve many a times.
You can put a couple of those together, and you wont come close to the mass of humanity that was there on VJ Day in 1945.
We were there during the day hours, and the party continued right on through the night.

Everybody loved everybody, and as me and my friend Ray noticed while we were moving through the crowd, we noticed that it was not only the men in uniform of all the branch of the armed forces, (very common in those days) but also civilians that were stopping dead in their tracks as they would glance at a damsel in front of them - in a split second embrace and kiss.
They were all strangers, and then they would move on to the next one.
Ray and I looked at each other, and without saying a word, we could read our thoughts - "What a country."

At that moment, two very young teenagers decided to move it up to another level.
Let's take on some older women of 18 and beyond.

We did, and we got away with it.
We hated to leave, but we had to get back to our turf and exercise our bragging rights.

We will now return you to the original program and the Waddell.

[Archive]

Posted By: bcornell

People I know who are most sympathetic to the Japanese did not find it an unsuitable memorial...but I'd better quit talking about it.

That would be my preference.

Bill

[Archive]

Posted By: Ben

It made a great impression.
Hopefully it was heard despite all the lightning and thunder going on in here.

[Archive]

Posted By: The other One (Julie)

.....

Oh yeah...bye, Ben.


I did NOT highjack this thread! I made one. Small. Post. And got attacked for it.

[Archive]

Posted By: Ben

Julie- there could be alot of ways to describe my reactions to your posts. Offended? never. Most often I enjoy and go along with them. I think some people would prefer that there be less scans....if it were up to me I wouldnt give 2 sh*ts, but thats the vibe I get. So I guess thats the way it ought to be.


Ben

[Archive]

Posted By: The other One (Julie)

ple of geniuses on the Forum kept remarkably quiet.

Ben, Pete, Joe, Paul (and others interested in the original post--Max, for one), I apologize for interrupting your discussion--was Pete discussing anything? And for posting so many scans.

But NOT for the Memorial You-Know -What. ANY MORE THAN i'D APOLOGIZE FOR PUTTING UP A BAORD WITH "THE 1955 BROOKLYN DODGERS!" BASEBALL CARDS AS A MEMORIAL TO ROCKY DENNIS ("MASK"). WHEN I SET UP AT A SHOW TO MAKE MONEY FOR THE AMERICAN FRIENDS SERVICE COMMITTEE FOR THE FAMINE IN BANGLADESH, 1985. What's wrong with baseball cards as a memorial, anyhow? You don't like baseball cards?

[Archive]

Posted By: jay behrens

that politics and religion are not good topics unless the forum is specifically dedicated to it. Yes, we get off-topic around here once in awhile, but when you stray into the field of politics and religion, you tend to get very extreme reations from both sides.

Julie, whether you realize it or not, your posts often times have political undertones. If you are going to make posts like these, then you need to learn not to get offended when others take offense to them. All you do then is create a war, like what just occured between you and Pete. And no one wants that.

Jay

I like to sit outside, drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home I would be arrested, so I go to baseball games and fit right in.

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe P.

Only for those that feel naked, all others need not apply.

Come and visit our Skinatorium and be dipped in the stuff.

In order to avoid disclosure, this will be a private auction.

Buy the Dip, and not the Whip.

[Archive]

Posted By: The other One (Julie)

"Body Frosting," in the case with the icecream toppings. It says, you should smear it all over you, and then invite people to lick. It doesn't sell very well. Guess people are more interested in stuff advertised as tasting good on ice cream...

Jay, as a rule you're right about politics, but a page or so ago, we had an 85-post thread, political, and nobody got mad...

Or at least not VERY mad...

[Archive]

Posted By: petecld

"Body Frosting" in a grocery store? Suuuuurrrrre, (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) a "grocery" store....

Julie, your post wasn't political, it was ignorant IMO. If you can, try to see in the other thread how no one lowered themselves by throwing into a political debate implications of racism as you did. Again, I realize I'm asking you to comprehend two kinda related concepts so I won't expect much.

[Archive]

Posted By: The other One (Julie)

I know what you said about the Japanese; YOU know what you said about the Japanese; we BOTH know what you said about my memorial built of Japanese basaball cards( which--no mistake, MANY people objected to--but, fortunately, not all). How you build "implications of racism" from what I said is beyond me..

Speaking of--Nationalism, not racisim--how about:

Bill Kasel in "Even if you're not a cycling fan..."

Title: "The French (yuck!)
Message: I'm surprised they aren't all surrendering as he (Armstrong) passes them. Lord knows they cower in fear at any sign of quick movement and /or hint of conflict and then wait for the rest of the world to bail them out."

Nobody batted an eye...

Oh, by the way, that "Body Frosting" is sold at Andronico's, the most expensive, and (unfortunately) the best supermarket in the San Francisco Bay Area. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

I think you're perhaps aware that if this goes on, at least part (if they're judicious) and possibly all (which would be a pity) of this thread will be zapped...I AM getting a little bored with being called old and feeble-minded, but, go right ahead...

[Archive]

Posted By: Bill Kasel

Don't drag me into this.....oh wait....who the hell cares anymore about the petty hissy fit fight you and Pete are having. (memo to self, DO NOT VIEW ANY MORE NEW POSTS IN THE SHOW AND TELL STRING!) bad Bill, bad Bill.

Fool me once, shame on you....fool me twice, you better duck!

PS. The French are NOT arrogant, smelly, hairy, drunk, cowards! (especially not the hot females)

[Archive]

Posted By: andy becker

i've seen some hotties that were all of the above

[Archive]

Posted By: jay behrens

JULIE!!! QUIT RESPONDING!!! All you are doing is making things worse. You promised Bill you quit mentioning the Japanese thing, yet can't seem to go one post without doing so.

Do like Bill K is going to do and never open this thread again. I plan on doing the same since the actual topic has run it course and you seem determined to continue your war with Pete.

Jay

I like to sit outside, drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home I would be arrested, so I go to baseball games and fit right in.

[Archive]

Posted By: bcornell

Vicodin, Bertolt Brecht, body frosting, bombed Japanese civilians, now Bill K. having to apologize for the French... what's next, Julie?

Back to Rube Waddell.

Bill

[Archive]

Posted By: petecld

Julie, if I implied you are an idiot then I apologize. Because at this point it is quite clear you're an idiot and I should have expressed myself clearer.

The fact that you have to lie and put words in people's mouths to gain pity from others say everything. You just think you can say anything you want about anyone, interrupt threads with random posts and then when they disagree with you slip into "Oh gosh, golly, gee, why is everyone picking on poor little Julie?"

You know what's scary? When you make posts I'm not sure if you are doing so when you are "on" your pain pills or "off" of them anymore.

[Archive]

Posted By: The other One (Julie)

.....<br />

[Archive]

Posted By: Chris

can you two please take this somewhere else?

Is it possible for one of the administrators to delete or lock this thread? Its painfully obvious that Rube Waddell, show and tell, and any other interesting discussion this post was intended for has long since deteriorated into childish bickering.