2 Type card email sales by 2 different sellers!!! PLEASE READ

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Posted By: Eric 

I want to make an important announcement here about two TYPE card email sale lists that have been transpiring over the past week. I like to keep things simple, and will not get others involved, so I will not name the persons invovled here. I apologize to the esteemed seller who I referrence here, if he deams this not a becoming post for me to relate publically. However, I feel compelled to make others aware of a truly sad attempt to fraudulently "use and mislead" one of the best sellers in our hobby, and a slew of unsuspecting collectors, many of which participate on this board.

Earlier this week, I received a TYPE card email sale listing from one of the most highly trusted and honored persons in our hobby. I will refer to this person as "M". M's list had a selection of type cards for sale, at his usual buyer friendly prices.
A day after receiving M's email, a friend of mine emailed me with a list of type cards being offered for sale, from an individual who I will refer to as "Z". The only difference was the pricing, and Z was asking much higher prices on all of the cards. Feeling that there may be an ethical and fraudulent problem involved, I responded to my friend and mentioned M's TYPE card sale email that I had recieved a day earlier. As my friend did not receive M's email, he was dismayed at how the same exact offering could be made, and contacted M directly to get the facts straight.

Here are the facts. M had emailed Z with the TYPE card list of cards for sale earlier this week. Z in turn, cut and pasted that list exactly to create his own listing, but jacked up all of the prices, and added that this was HIS newly acquired collection for sale. Z then email blasted the list out to his unsuspecting collectors (which included my friend). Z figured that any cards that people in his email blast came back to him wanting to buy, that he would then buy from unknowing M, and resell them to his customer for a major profit. Obviously, Z didn't own even one of the cards in this email that he represeneted as his own. All the while, he figured that no one would make the correlation of what he was doing...and that he could go about making a quick profit off of people who would never know the difference.

Again, I apologize to M if he didn't wish to make this a public announcement, but I can't stand to hear about garbage like Z scamming fellow collectors. And that's exactly what this boils down to, a misrepresented fraudulent scam. This is not about a guy reselling cards out from under someone, it's 100% fraud. It's disgusting that Z thought he'd actually get away with doing this without one of us in the hobby noticing. It makes me even madder, because M offers cards to collectors at very fair prices, not necessarilly trying to make a buck, but rather to enrich other people's collections. Z is a piece of crap that tries to lure unsuspecting card collectors. This also evident by the way he always posts his vintage card auctions in non-vintage card categories on Ebay. His attempt to mislead and misrepresent M's collection as his own is sad and fraudulent, and it should be known throughout our hobby what this individual has (initials DZ) done. Thanks to my friend, and a couple other astute collectors, this SOB will never again be respected in the vintage card collecting community.

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Posted By: Scott Polin

The same type thing is going on between Yahoo and Ebay. There was a PSA 5 1953 Mantle for sale on Yahoo at buy it now for $1083, the person who eventually bought it listed the same scan and item on Ebay at the same time. When the bidding on Ebay exceeded $1083 the seller on Ebay bought the Yahoo item.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2759765607&category=16271

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Posted By: Jay Miller

Hey Scott B. --Sound familiar?

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Posted By: leon

I got the same 2 lists from M and Z. The ONLY problem here is that Z said they were HIS OWN and they weren't. Fortunately I know M better than Z. I personally don't have a problem with buying and "flipping" cards to support our habit. I DO have a problem with saying that you own a card for sale when you don't. Z even sent me a friggin scan of a card from M last night, after M sent him the scan.....and I am buying the card today from M.....NOT Z......later........

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Posted By: fkw

It is very familiar.......

Dean Z. has done that same thing to me..... For a couple months straight last year he listed in his SCD ad almost all my cards I had on my small website at the time (scarcer fairly unique type cards) with his prices about 1.5-2 times what I was asking for the cards. I found this myself while scanning through SCD and caught it fairly early. He would list a few dozen of my cards per week, and I would then temporarily jack up the prices each week when I read the SCD and saw which cards he listed in his small ad, then I would lower them a couple weeks later back to the original price. At the time I didnt care too much because his prices were unreal on most of the cards, and I knew not many would sell. I believe he ended up buying about 3-4 low value cards from me and only made maybe 5-10% profit on the transaction (after selling them to someone who saw his ad). I knew the damn ad in SCD cost him way more than what he made off me those couple months (and I was happy with the slightly larger profit I made off my temporarily jacked up prices). I knew he would try it again...... It made me think of him in a different light to this day. I wouldnt buy a thing from him now. Oh well, thanks for reminding me. I should have wrote about it back then. Frank

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Posted By: Anthony Nex

"Z" did this to a friend of mine last month- put the inventory from the friends web site on his ("Z") SCD ad, without talking to him about it. Guess it makes you look like you have more than you do.

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Posted By: Marty

Dean looked through my inventory at the last Fort Washington show. Within a week, I got an email from Dean asking for my best price on a graded 1949 PCL Bowman card and either a Briggs meat or an Esskay card. Before I answered him, I was called by the person that asked Dean about the two cards. I was told that he had new inventory and had emailed several people to this fact. Dean normally tells the customers that he just got back from a show and has not unpacked yet, so he will have to get back with the availity. I sold the cards to the person that contacted Dean, and emailed Dean that the cards were sold. Since then, I have been told by two different people that Zindler has some of my inventory listed for sell in SCD. I agree with Frank, that this is not right, but it does help sell cards. I do have customers that buy cards from me for sell to their clients, but the are working from want lists, so they find out about my cards before they contact their client. I hold the card for a short time and they get back to me, or the buy it outright.
Dean's emails are kind of buddy-buddy, like we should be friends.

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Posted By: Hankron

Sort of reminds me of the time that someone, for some reason, thought I was two different sellers. I had an item listed and for some reason thought that two different people were offering the same item. He got a price quote from me, then used the quote to try and get the other guy (which was me) to give him a better deal.

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Posted By: Paul

This is really sad. I've bought cards from Z over the years (probably 1 or 2 a year for many years). He has supplied me with some very unusual stuff for my Tom Seaver collection, and at prices much lower than you usually have to pay for truly exotic superstar items. I've never had any problems with condition, shipping, customer service, etc.

I received his email and was surprised by the high prices. I didn't give it a second thought. I just knew I wasn't interested. But all of the information on this thread is just astonishing and very sad. I had always assumed Z was one of the good guys. I'd like to hear from him on this board.

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Posted By: runscott

One of the real positives about attending the National is getting to interact with fellow collectors, AND dealers. You realize then that most of the dealers are just collectors who are trying to use their hobby to make a living, which is fine. They supply a very helpful function to the hobby. But there are a few scumbags as well - fortunately, that's a very small percentage. What DZ is doing seems very disgusting on the surface, but it's just one step away from someone who spots a deal and contacts a customer to assess interest, prior to buying it. DZ adds an intermediate step - advertising items for sell that he doesn't actually own...actually, that is disgusting. This was fun - stream-of-consciousness post ala Brian Daniels, all in one paragraph, but with semi-correct grammar and multiple sentences.

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Posted By: brian p.

...but did not end up buying anything, although I was interested in a couple. Having contacted the actual seller of these cards and discovering the details, I plan on informing Dean that I will never buy anything from him again (I have only purchased a couple of cards from him, so no big loss for him I imagine), but will also let him know that the vintage bb card community is a relatively small one, and that word will get out on how he is deceptively conducting his business. I will even provide a link to this thread. For him to do something like this can only harm his reputation, and now that it has been exposed on a forum like this one, courtesy of Eric and and some of the people who have had their sales lists similiarly 'targeted', we have all discovered another seller to avoid. He might be able to get away with this with post WW2 cards, but we ain't gonna tolerate it here.

Brian

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Does this guy sell on ebay? If so what is his name? I want to make sure I avoid him.

Lee

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Posted By: Kevin Cummings

...who didn't get an email from Dean Zindler? One more person whose "A" list I'm not on.

I have bought a couple of things from Dean over the years, too, and his prices seemed to be fair and I recall him able to be bargained with. I also found him to be pleasant and very eager to help. Perhaps it was this characteristic that led him to take such actions. Still, even if there wasn't anything illegal about it, it sure makes him appear to be sleazy, doesn't it?

He does sell a lot on ebay but it's a lot of sport related items that I don't collect, so I can't tell whether he owns or whether the prices are out of line.

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=dean@zindlers.com&sort=2&page=10&rows=25&since=-1&showpics=1&stab=0

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Posted By: Dean Zindler

Dear fellow collectors
I have been a part of the vintage collecting community for over 12 years and a collector myself for over 30 years. I have always been involved in buying and selling vintage, oddball, regional and hard to find sports items. I have done business with many of you in the past and appreciate your patronage. I have always tried to be prompt, courteous, and work with my customers. I obtain items many different ways: mostly through direct purchase from collectors/dealers, individuals and at sports shows. Sales list are also sent to me from a wide range of people such as dealers and I also handle consignment items. The list of items I recently received was very unique and thought it might be of interested to several of you as well. Forwarding sales lists is not a common practice of mine. It was not my intent in the most recent email to deceive or misrepresent any of the items for sale. I apologize for any misunderstanding and hope most of you would agree to having favorable dealings with us in the past Let me know if I can answer any questions or concerns you might have. As always we appreciate your business and look forward to helping you in the future.

Sincerely
Dean Zindler.

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Posted By: petecld

No, Kevin you're not alone. I didn't get the "Z" list either. Kinda glad I don't rate.

Doesn't matter. I get lists from "M".

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Posted By: TBob

Don't feel bad, I got list "M" but not "Z" either. The problem I see for "Z" is that I spoke with "M" and he received over a hundred emails either purchasing or inquiring about the cards on the list (I was one of them), therefore I don't think there are many cards left and when people write "Z" they are going to be disappointed because "Z" won't be able to furnish them with any of the cards they requested. Seems like a poor way to do business, or at least one guaranteed not to create goodwill among potential buyers.
Just my 2 cents.

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Posted By: petecld

Oh, I don't feel bad about not getting the "Z" list. I get plenty of offerings that for the most part get deleted. I never bought a card from "Z". His prices are always too high. I saw his table at the National. I felt his assigned grades were as jacked up as his prices.

I agree with you 1000% on one point - VERY poor business practice.

Hmmm, some of the cards i wanted from "M" were gone already. I'm thinking they might be on their way to Arkansas as I type.

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Posted By: Mike Peich

because I didn't get a list from either M or Z. How do I get their mailings?

Cheers, Mike

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Posted By: quan

i'm out of the loop, who's "m"? As I figure if there are cards by M that P wants that he thought went to TB then Q probably want them also!

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Posted By: runscott

Once again my tongue-in-cheek humor missed the mark with this board. Damn - I keep swearing I'll stop it, but I can't help myself.

In any event, to clarify my last post - it is appalling that someone would attempt to sell items that do not belong to them, especially in the manner that this guy has done.

Also, there are plenty of nice personable people out their with unscrupulous business practices...drink with them, but don't do business with them.

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

rvognar01@comcast.net. I'll even send you the type card list.

Alas, I have never received any offers of his own, or anyone else's cards, from Z.

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Posted By: TBob

Quan- I bought the M116 Mattern but the E94 Lord (red) was already spoken for (I had it already but was going to use it for trade bait). Methinks maybe our friend Tim might now have it.
Bob

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Posted By: Anthony Nex

Anyone wishing to contact Mr. Zindler in regards to this (as I have) should note that the email address he logged in on was not correct- it should be dean@zindlers.com

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Posted By: warshawlaw

and don't have a cognizable legal right to have (i.e., an option to purchase or a contract of purchase that has yet to be completed by delivery) is fraudulent.

Offering to sell an item you have a legal right to own (i.e., you have purchased it or have an option to purchase but don't yet have on hand) is good business and commonplace.

Buying an item low to sell higher is capitalism at its best.

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Posted By: leon

Having 20 lawyers on the board- *priceless

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Posted By: Tim

Tim did not get the e94 Lord but did pick up 2 type cards...was after more.

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Posted By: Julie

Nobody sends their e-mail addresses, nobody sends thank you when i finally figure them out.

Please contact Mark Macrae, at MMa3026559@aol.com, ask for the 10/20 "Type" card list. he's a nice fellow, and he may even have some cards left!

Joe and Quan: I'm still waiting for you e-mail addresses. Will send list.

No more, please.

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Posted By: scott brockelman

mike don't feel bad i don't get either one as well. i don't even know who M is, but i suspect it's a west coast dealer. would like to see his list as well, might just buy something

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Posted By: murcerfan

www.zindlers.com