Annika

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Posted By: Cy 

OK, it's not cards, but it is news-worthy. Annika is now 1 under par. The leaders are at 3 under. If she does well, doesn't this open up a big can of worms for the LPGA. I believe that the LPGA can have an all-woman's group because they say the women can't compete with the men. But if Annika beats a bunch of the tour players, why can't a member from the Nationwide Tour (the minor tour) state, "Annika beat people that I can't beat, why can't I play in the LPGA tour?" then go to qualify.

The money is substantially different on these tours. If a golfer is feeding his family and when he wins a Nationwide Tour event, he wins $81K, but if he won an LPGA event, he would win $195K (last two winner's shares), why not play on the LPGA and help out your family better than you can on the Nationwide tour?

I know many people will come back and say, "But he's playing with the girls?" So what. If a man was a beat writer for Sports Illustrated and was earning $81K and Glamour magazine offered him $195 to write for them, would this guy jump at the chance? I think so.

Lawyers, enlighten me. Does the LPGA have a leg to stand on by trying to keep males out of the LPGA if Annika does well in this PGA tournament?

Cy

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Posted By: jay behrens

Sorry, but I have a hard time sympathizing with someone that can't support their family with $81,000. Sounds like that person needs to reprioritize some things and figure what's really important in life.

Wanting to make more money is a pretty sad justification to want to play on the woman's tour if you are a man.

Jay

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Posted By: jay behrens

almost forgot, your example of the writer is a realy bad analogy since writing does not involve physical prowess. It's apples and oranges.

Jay

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Posted By: Cy

Jay,

You are forgetting that it mat cost $50K or more to travel.

Cy

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Posted By: Marc S.

Any more than men belong in LPGA events. I really don't buy the argument that she has a bonafide reason to play there. Now -- if she is playing from the men's tees on the PGA tour event, could men play from the women's tees on LPGA tour events?

There are definitely time and places for mixed tournament events. It works in tennis, for example. However, I think it all unfortunately goes back to sponsors and their desires. As they were the conduit that permitted Annika to join this event, I think it is a sad development.

There needs to be limits -- and stretching the limits all the time becomes increasingly problematic. Okay, so now we have a woman in a PGA event, another professional golfer who gets to use a cart (whereas no one else does). What happens why you have the guy whose arms were lost in war/car accident/etc. who ends up with a bionic arm and can outdrive the competition?

It gets silly at one point -- and a sport can only be so accomodating while preserving its integrity. How accomodating and "diverse and open" must our society become in order to accomodate everyone supposedly displaced because of whatever reason....

Sports are a consumer-driven activity. Fans speak with their money -- and I think in the long-term, if fans don't want to see WNBA, for example, we should let the free market decide that. Enforcing open access only allows noise, confusion and bureaucracy to enter the equation when it really does not need to be there in the first place.

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Posted By: B Kaz

Nowhere does it state that the PGA is a "Men's" tour only. The men's part is implied since no woman has challeneged it since Babe Didrickson played in an event in the 40's. If Annika can swing it with the big boys, and start qualifying for events, then more power to her, or any woman for that matter. For Chrissakes it's just sports.

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Posted By: Hankron

I have no sense for her level of talent compared to the men. But my feeling is that if she's good enough Annika should play, and if she isn't she won't for very long.

I beleive that some PGA golfer's complaints are that she didn't go through the normal qualifications, and was given an exception that no one else would receive (that is unless your name is Arnold Palmer or Jack Nicholas).

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Posted By: jay behrens

$81k - $50k = $31k. Sorry, I still have no pity for anyone that says they can't supposert a family on that kind of money. And I gaurentee you his wife isn't sitting at home playing 'June Cleever', so there's some more income.

Jay

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Posted By: jay behrens

As someone else pointed out, there is nothing that says the PGA is a 'mens' tour. It's supposed to be the best golfers in the world. If a woman can compete with them, so be it. I don't have a problem with that.

As for the golf cart issue, the people against that had the lamest arguments. Especially the "walking is an integral part of the game". Spare me. If that's true, then they need to get rid of caddies and make the players lug their bag around too. Hell, my grandma could walk a golf course, but strap a golf bag to her back and she'd drop dead on the first hole.

Jay

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Posted By: leon

Since this is free speech here's my opinion. This is BS. Annika should not be allowed to play on the PGA in as much as a girl should not be able to join the Boyscouts. Just my opinion. regards all

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Posted By: runscott

...if she can qualify the same way the men do. My understanding is that the exemptions were not designed for this purpose, and because she is a woman playing in a "men's" event, it's even more important for her credibility that she qualify to play, as a man would.

Yes, David, guys like Nicklaus and Palmer will get exemptions, but these are based on what they've contributed in the past to the tour - not the LPGA tour.

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Posted By: Hankron

Scott, I think it is a legitimate claim that she should have to qualify just like everyone else. I also think that it is legimate to point out that the PGA regularly gives exemptions to those who are unqualified (for example, Arnold and Jack) and, in the process, excluding those are are.

In other words, the PGA regularly waters down the talent pool and bends the rules to boost ratings.

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Posted By: Rhys

Women are a suspect class (Constitutionally speaking) and they can probably get away with banning men, where men can not get away with the same type of gender discrimination. As long as the LPGA's interest in keeping their organization seperate is remedying past discrimination in sports (and there is a history of such discrimination), and there is no less discriminatory alternative, courts will probably find that is enough to withstand judicial scrutiny. Long story short, I think the LPGA would win. My opinion; I hope she finished dead last so we never get to that point.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

in the PGA. According to what I read in the paper this a.m., they are considering one.

BTW, did you see Annika's story in SI when this whole thing started? With the bikini photos?? (a) wow. (b) she looks like she could kick my @$$ at most any sport except pizza eating, distance spitting (I'm taller), and 12 oz. curls. If she can play (and her 1 over today says she can), let her play. The male golfers who cry about it obviously have "issues" of their own they need to handle. Perhaps their game is a bit . . . short?

As far as Casey Martin and other handicapped players go, I note that he has already dropped off the tour, cart notwithstanding. Walking the course at a normal pace is hardly the sort of strenuous activity that would wear on a robust athlete; it is the sort of stroll in the park that my 71 year old mother can take. Strenuous? Heck, look at these guys: Most of them look like my accountant (nice clangers, Mikkelson). I'll take a little walking over a crippling injury any day.

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Posted By: RBCraik

Adam, careful what you say about accountants!
For one who lives and, err, works in the Sistine Chapel of golf (CPA for PGA West), I have to say the consensus out here in La Quinta is she is good for the sport & we support her! If she can kick butt go get em'!
Quite honestly, she looks like my attorney...

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Posted By: marty

Annika playing in a PGA event is like a welterweight boxer fighting in a heavyweight event. A man playing in a quilified event, LPGA, is like a heavyweight boxing in a welterweight event. I am hearing that Annika should not be allowed to play because she is taking the place of a man. Would this be the last seeded player that probably would not make the cut? If Vijay or Tiger wanted to play, wouldn't that also mean that another man would not be allowed to play? There is not much difference in who is bumping them, they are still being bumped.

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Posted By: runscott

I hadn't heard that the complaints were because she was taking the place of a man. I think anyone who made that argument would have it dismissed immediately. The complaints are because she didn't qualify, doesn't hold a PGA card, and never has held a PGA card - if there are any examples of anyone playing in a tournament with similar negative credentials, please list them. Like David said, this thing is about boosting rating, not about giving Annika a chance to play because she's "earned" it - she hasn't. If she is serious about playing on the PGA tour, let her go through the qualifying process.

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Posted By: Jay Miller

These people are getting paid to entertain us. Other than that they produce no product and provide no useful service. I am more entertained watching Annika compete against the men so I say this is a good thing.

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Posted By: Jon

of money made, or anything else for that matter - women should stick to the LPGA and men to the PGA. There seems to always be a double standard, and that’s what drives me nuts. Sure, women can interview men in a locker room after a game, but god help us if a man wants to interview females in their locker room after a game. I'm also sick of the BS that was made by women being allowed at Augusta. Feminists had no trouble complaining about an exclusive men's club, but I didn't see them standing up and fighting for men to be allowed to exclusively female clubs... Bottom line - this whole debacle is ridiculous.

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Posted By: runscott

Personally, I hope she does well (makes the cut) and that other women are encouraged to attempt to qualify for a PGA card using traditional methods. I would even be for the PGA coming up with an arrangement with the LPGA to automatically qualify current LPGA card holders (give them a PGA card), based on some negotiated LPGA-tour-earned accomplishments.

Don't get me wrong - I think any time a woman can compete on the same level as a man, and desires to, you have to encourage it. She doesn't have to be the best PGA player, just have skills that fall within those accepted for the other players, which she apparently does.

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Posted By: julie

hope it's not another 50 years before another woman has a chance to try.

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Posted By: jay behrens

The 13 year old phenom from Hawaii has already said that she intends to go to Q School and get a PGA card. I forget her name, but read an article on her and at age 13 is is averaging 190 yard drive, wgich article said would place her 52nd at the PGA driving list.

Babe Deidrickson also played in PGA events without a PGA card.

Jay

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Posted By: jay behrens

that should be 290 and not 190 yeard driving average.

Jay

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Posted By: warshawlaw

The PGA permits sponsors to put golfers into tournaments without qualifying. This is and has been the case for a long time. Casey Martin was admitted on that basis. Annika is using the same loophole to qualifying that many a man has used over the years.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Boxers are not prohibited from fighting up in class, they are prohibited from fighting down in class. History is full of stories of boxers trying to move up classes.

Also, let's be clear that the LPGA is the "Ladies Professional" GA by definition, while the PGA is the "Professional" GA. As noted above, nothing in the rules bars women from competing in a PGA event. Babe Didrickson did it(big hitter, the Babe, like the Dali Lhama. Sorry.).

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I don't have a problem with a professional golfer playing a professional tournament. I have a huge problem with wome trying to take away every outlet men have for being guys. Just where the heck are we supposed to unwind if we can't have clubs, lodges, fraternal organizations,etc.? Not at home. Most of us can't even lay claim to our own houses ('fess up, if we all had our way, the TV would be 72" and the sofa 48", not the other way around, tables would be bottle-friendly, carpets would be dark to hide the beer stains, and the word "chenille" would not be known to us). What's next, ladies, crash fraternities?