T206's ... 1909? 1910? 1911?

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Posted By: HalleyGator 

Why do some books list the T206 set as having been from 1909 and others from 1909-1911?? PSA, for example, only lists the cards on their labels as "1911".

Are the "series of 150 subjects" from 1909, the "series of 350" from 1910, and the "series of 450 from 1911"???

Are there other ways to tell which year a particular T206 card was printed??

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Posted By: David

Other than when it's actually from 1909, listing a T206 as '1909' versus '1909-11' is a commonly used conveneince. Many people, including catalogs, like a specific, space saving date. This is even true where the date(s) for an issue is unknown. SSPC is a modern example where dating is arguable-- 1975, 76 and 1975-6 are all accurate depending on the way you look at it (the issue was made in 1975, but not sold until the next year due to legal problems). Naturally, a buyer will label Brett's card as from 1976, but the seller will label it as a 75 Rookie.

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Posted By: HalleyGator

David: It sounds like you are saying that the T206 set was issued from 1909 through 1911, correct?

Am I right in guessing that the "series" on the back has something to do with the year in which the card was issued?

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Posted By: David

Hal,
You are correct both in the time span and that the back series relates to the year (Sweet Caporal 150 subjects = 1909, etc). I know for a fact that others reading this board know more than I about the specific T206 back variations (Broadleaf with a double-helix overprint, etc). In other words I will not attempt to be more specific, for fear that Art Martineau and Doug Allen will toss a 'First Hundred Years' galley proof at my head (Not that I think they'd actually do that, but you have to be careful in this day and age).

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Posted By: ty_cobb

The 150 series is essentially 'short printed'. I have
collected and studied the T206 set for many years.
I have no compellinng evidence that the 350 series
was not also produced in 1909. I will however defer
to the evidence provided by the veteran collectors.

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Posted By: benge610

Six tobacco brands began distribution in 1909 w/150 series (although EPDG, Hindu and Old Mill didn't indicate "150"); seven additional companies jumped on-board, minor leaguers were added, and the "350 series" was born late 1909 into 1910. Drum and Hindu left the market in 1910 while Lenox, Uzit and Ty Cobb entered later in 1910, minor leaguers were dropped and 112 card fronts were issued with "350-460" or "460" subject backs; these continued to find their way into the market into the early part of 1911.

I paraphrase most of this from "T206- The Monster" by Heitman. This basically concurs with Lipset's "Encyclopedia" and Peavey's "Mysteries of T206". The reason I referred more often to "The Monster" is that I have an extra copy that I can send to you as reference (gratis). It was sent to me awhile back from some helpful collector on these boards and would be glad to return the favor.

Let me know if you are interested with your address and I will be glad to send it to you.

Ben.

bengehler@avenew.com

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Posted By: HalleyGator

Ben:

Thanks so much for the offer, but since I am NOT a diehard T206 collector, I will pass on your generous offer and allow someone who really "needs" the book to take it. You already answered the question I had!

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Posted By: Nelson

He was a pitcher for the New York Nationals. It is a black and white photo card with a blank back and no series number at bottom. I'm trying to find out if this is a carmel card or sporting news or something else. Thanks.

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Posted By: leon

A black and white picture and blank back could be quite a few cards but most likely NOT a T206. A pic of it would definitely help...off hand it sounds like an m101, a "w" card, or an "E" card......knowing the dimensions will also narrow the possibilities.....best regards

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Posted By: jay behrens

It's either a w501 or w575 as those are the only cards he was issued on that had B&W photos with blank backs. A scan of the card would help in identifying the issue.

Jay

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Posted By: warshawlaw

For using one date is that many spreadsheet programs don't interpret "1909" and "1909-1911" as consecutive numbers. I've had problems with Excel in this respect when trying to inventory my cards.

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Posted By: Art M

Just some quick issue dates for the T206 tobacco cards:

February 17, 1909 - Earliest possible starting date for the 150 series.

May 16, 1909 - Earliest possible starting date for the 350 series.

December 16, 1909 - Earliest possible starting date for the 460 series.

April 16, 1910 - The 350 series was still being issued.

These dates are derived from several trades that occured during the 1909 and 1910 seasons and the teams shown with certain players in the different series.

Here is just one quick example:
Wid Conroy
1. T206 150 series he is shown with Washington.
2. Traded from N.Y. Americans to Washington on February 17, 1909.
This provides evidence that the 150 series was produced after February 17, 1909.

Hope this is helpful.

Still no updates from D. Allen on the publishing of our T206 book. Thanks for your patience.
Art Martineau

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Posted By: warshawlaw

No, it provides evidence that that particular card was issued after that date. Leaping from that to a generalization about the issue date of the entire series of 150 would require study of uncut sheets.

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Posted By: ty_cobb

Advertisements for the T206 set appeared
in the Sporting Life 1909. 10 cards from
the 150 series are shown in an early July issue.

A new ad appears in August, all 150 series again,
this time one of the cards shown is Honus Wagner.

First ads for the 350 series appear in late August
in the New Orleans papers for Hindu cigarettes,
this is the first depiction of Southern Leaguers.

I would speculate the 350 series was first issued
late August/early September 1909.

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

I knew other ads existed, but I have only seen the two versions of the Hindu ads... Thought maybe others would enjoy! (Sorry for the crappy picture but I had to really cut the size of the scan down to get it to upload!)