The Watchdogs

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Posted By: Bob

Nice to know that there are other honest and decent people watching out for buyers on ebay other than those on this board. Apparently the stamp collecting hobby has a very active hard core of do-gooders who routinely allow themselves to be suspended from ebay just to provide fraud. It is simply amazing that ebay has the balls to suspend users from ebay for alerting potential buyers about fraud and yet do nothing to those committing the frigging fraud!!!! Unbelievable...

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Posted By: Dan Mathewson

Y aknow, I'd do the same thing, myself, in a heartbeat. I've had sellers (who were stupid enough to commit fraud but not wily enough to use the Private Auction) threaten to report me to eBay for warning their bidders about the crap they were pulling. I simply don't care. I had one really stupid gal, who was notorius for selling trimmed cards in PRO holders even go so far as to threaten to sue me. I told her to bring it on if she wanted, but I'd stand by my ethics in warning bidders about the garbage she was trying to push off as authentic and un-altered. And I was successful in a few cases, too. it's like trying to cite someone for speeding wwhen they're rushing a heart atack victim to the hospital. You really shouldn't be throwing the book at anyone who is in the good samaratin mode. eBay just gets pissy when it ends up cutting back their profits. They apparently LOVE making money off of fraudulent crap sold on their site. We all complained about Braodway Rick's self-shill bidding...it was so obvious and blatent, it wasn't even funny. And, eBay told us all to go away. They don't want to mess with their precious "Power Smellers" and "Square Meal Deal Traders" that they have out there. Quite honestly, when those "trademarks" appear on an auction/seller's credential, I hide my checkbook. Those are the guys usually running the Private Auctions and selling altered/restored materials.

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Posted By: petecld

About 2 weeks ago I received an invitation to become a "Ebay Power Seller". Since I'm a little more selective about who I keep company with than that I declined but I wonder what would happen if I did become a Power Seller and reported these crooks like I used to.

Think they would they listen then?

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Posted By: Tom A

I really appreciate the bit of watchdog-ness that goes on with this board. I see all the scams that people try and it makes me sick, and I am glad that there are those out there who look out for newbie collectors.

On a side note though, when I started collecting, I did research first. I searched for vintage card sites and forums, and bought books and magazines. Maybe I am a cynical person, but how can people be so trusting?

Speaking of scams, here's another paper pusher who hasn't learned about private auctions yet.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1865512897

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Posted By: runscott

I accepted their Powerseller invitation and noticed no changes. I still submit complaints about fraud/deception, and they still ignore me.

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Posted By: David

If there was just one rule for newbies, it should be don't let your first or one of your first purchases be an expensive item. If a newbie really wants to own a Goudey Babe Ruth or Michael Jordan Rookie or Alex Rodriguez Game Used baseball, that's great-- but give yourself a few monthes at least of reading, researching and following the market, before purchasing it. The biggest horror stories involes newbies plunking down big dollars on a Babe Ruth autograph or card Elliot won't let me mention anymore. Even if it isn't a matter of authenticy, you will invariable end up spending too much.

The same rule applies to me. If I decided I wanted to start collecting Ming vases or rare World War I medals, I would consciously give myself a several months of delay before I would bring my credit card to Sotheby's.

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Posted By: Dan Mathewson

Tom-

This seller is part of the Roy Huff/AAA-Grading Posse which is flooding the market with their cut out magazine and encyclopedia photos slabbed in his personally-owned grading company's P.O.S. holders. They put ridiculous BIN prices on the crappola they sell, usually at least $199 or more. And, sometimes these a-holes lure a new collector (novice) into their web and get a BIN for a piece of toilet paper they have in a holder on eBay. And, I ADMONISH eBay publicly (again) for allowing these jokers to sell/auction these cards under the "graded cards" category. These are cut-out photos, not cards. That is fraud/deception/misrepresentation.

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Posted By: Anonymous

I get that offer from time to time and never take Ebay up on it mainly b3cause I just consider myself a collector who sells cards to (try to) support his "habbit".
Nonewithstanding that your fraud reports are paid no more heed than before is there anything that makes it worthwhile to be become a "power seller"?

(I'm sure Pete and I aren't the only ones who have had this opportunity who frequent the Board)

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Posted By: jeff s

fyi, the "standards" for powersellers have gone down. It used to be that, to be bronze power seller, you would have to sell $2k worth of stuff two out of three months. Now you have to average $1k a month. The effect has seemed to be that some of us that do a decent amount of selling are now invited, though we wouldn't have been some months ago.

http://pages.ebay.com/services/buyandsell/powersellers.html

From that page: "Look for the new PowerSeller icon next to the member's user ID, as that is our new symbol of recognition for qualified PowerSellers. That way you can feel assured that your transaction will go smoothly and that you are dealing with one who has consistently met the requirements established by eBay."

The upside, perhaps, is that if way more people become powersellers, the tag will lose its effect, and the Huffs of the world will look no better than the zero-feedback scum that peddle 206 wagners. And perhaps more importantly, along the lines of Scott's remark, if more good guys are powersellers alongside the jerks, we'll have more pull.

Though I'd have to see that to believe it.

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Posted By: runscott

You get a "powerseller" icon on your auction listings, which might garner more trust from bidders. Also, you get another resource for special "powerseller" complaints, but it is as worthless as the normal avenues.

As we have seen, the "powerseller" logo certainly doesn't mean the seller is honest - only that he sells a lot and if disreputable, will be protected more closely by ebay.

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Posted By: jeff s

every month eBay features one powerseller and shares their story.

I say we all write in (there is no formal nomination process) and say we really want to hear the amazing success story of Roy Huff.

http://pages.ebay.com/services/buyandsell/powerseller/superps.html

We'll get his picture out of the deal, too!

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Posted By: Brian C Daniels

What's the matter with collecting " Blenko " ????

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Posted By: jay behrens

You would think after taht story that a lot of good PowerSellers would be raising hell with eBay about crap like that giving them a bad name. I know if i was a major powerseller I would want scumbags like Broadwayt Rick's SCam Zone and the AAA gang booted.

The only way anything is going to be done about the those jerks is enough othe PowerSellers get together and raise hell with eBay. They certainly won't listen tot he average customer/seller.

Jay

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Posted By: warshawlaw

He'd not want to be a member of any club that would have him as a member??

I'll never be a power seller, even if the volume requirements dropped to $10 a month. I take too many retaliatory negatives from @$$holes who try to cheat me on the buying end.

If I was to seriously endeavor to become a "power seller", I would have to pick up a new user ID.

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Posted By: David

I have the power seller designation, and am neither proud nor embarassed by it. I haven't noticed any material benefits, but perhaps I will get a birthday card.

I would like to see eBay be more restrictive on Power Sellers. I'm not talking about specific requirements, but about removing particularly offensive and already mentioned sellers. This is in eBay's benefit as much as anyone's. I would like to have eBay have small boards of experts who give advice on what eBay should do. Obviously any combination of card experts would tell eBay that Liberyforall's practices are terrible and their items, at least, should be listed in a non-card category.

In the end, I find collectors, especially newbies, to be a contributing source of the problem. Too many collectors neither seek advice nor listen to it if given. If all the idiots quit buying from Libertyforall, Libertyforall would no longer exist.

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Posted By: David

I also wish to note that, as a 'power seller' (do hate the term), it is most certainly not in my interest to have Broadway Rick and Libertyforall as fellow power sellers, especially when it gives a stigma. I would think that legitimate sellers with the designation would be the first to demand that eBay to be restrictive on who is a power seller.

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

lately are chess cards. But when someone points out another AAA certified paper cut out, I Can't BELIEVE that stuff is still going on. Is EBAY saying "we consider neatly cut out pieces of paper as salable as baseball cards, and to be worth the same amount of money?" That sure is what it seems like.

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Posted By: TBob

About 3 or 4 years ago I sold a very nice near set of T213-2s on ebay one card at a time for my dad and ebay got interested amd asked me to become a power seller. Back then you had to sell $2k every month as I recall. Being a collector, not a dealer, I was in for 3 months and then out. I got a piece of paper, (a certificate) and a newsletter out of the deal. Big deal...

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Posted By: Eric Eichelkraut (goudeyhunter)

I don't usually go against the grain with Ebay's rules, but I do fully support enlightening a naive bidder about a reprinted or fake vintage card being tauted as authentic. My stance is that I will only interfere with auctions which offer cards that I believe I am at an expert level working with, and am certain that I can give thorough reasoning why the card is not authentic. At this point I email the
bidder(s) with my thoughts, as well as the seller, to try and reason them into ending the misleading auction. After that, most of the time I will also send a short complaint to Ebay, making them aware of the situation.
The aftermath of my warning emails has garnered me alot of appreciation from bidders obviously, but at times, the sellers as well. I have found that some sellers are just as naive about reprints or fakes as bidders, and many are appreciative about my help, and do end their misrepresented auctions upon the information I give them. Ebay has also never responded to my reports in a negative way either.

Alike many others on this board, I think that sending warnings out is a right that we "vintage card experts" should have on Ebay, and believe that many of us add a great level of authentication to the hobby by doing so. Although Ebay has its problematic areas, as any large corporation does, they do allow opinions most of the time, when opinions are due.

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Posted By: Dan Mathewson

...that most of these cowards, like LibertyForNobody, etc, hide behind Private Auctions. So, you can't warn anyone directly in those circumstances. This is another means/vehicle that eBay has designed to protect its fraudulent sellers. Why else do they design such kinds of auctions? It's protects their power sellers so they can sell crap to people and nobody can warn them about it. And, eBay gets its tidy little percentage, and that's ALL they care about.

Here's another crap Roy Huff/Libertyforall auction:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1866700438

It's a private auction, it's a piece of toilet paper in a AAA holder, with a $500 BIN. And, some novice is likely to come buy and pay something for it eventually becuase they think it might be worth something, when it isn't worth a nickel. Inside the private auction, you cnnot warn anyone that they're about to get ripped off. Does eBay care? Nope, they want their percentage of the sale, that's all.

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Posted By: Dan Mathewson

...look at the heading that eBay allows it to be sold under:

Sports:Trading Cards:Baseball-MLB:Singles (Pre-1930):Graded

It is not a trading card. It is, at best, equivalent to one sheet off of a roll of Charmin or Handi-Wipes.

Don't think novices won't bid on this trash and get ripped off. I had a couple spoof auctions up on eBay recently. Clearly for humor only, not even remotely real. I had dozens of people write to me telling me that they enjoyed reading them. But, guess what? I had several people write to me (each time) and ask me what I thought the card was worth, was it real, where I bought it, did Christy really sign it, I had one person ask me if I watched Christy sign it in person... They're out there. And, just because they are inexperienced doesn't mean that people like Huff have the right to rip them off.

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Posted By: runscott

Once you are a Powerseller you are protected and allowed to rip people off, but ebay still does not listen to you.

Believe me, I have pissed off plenty of Powersellers with my smart-aleck "ask the seller" questions, and I am sure that many of them have complained to ebay; however, I haven't received a single notice from ebay for me to stop it, and I'm sure it is only because I am a Powerseller also.

I have had several Powersellers swear up and down that if I didn't leave them alone they would report me to ebay immediately and I would be banned. nothing happened - not even a warning.

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Posted By: Dan Mathewson

...(READ THESE, SOME OF THEM ARE ACTUALLY FUNNY BECAUSE THEY ARE SO RIGHT-ON)...

Neutral : thought it was a card, turned out to be a newspaper clipping.
Response by libertyforall - Description stated paper stock cut out bidder didn't read description b4 bidding


Neutral : Slightly disappointed with map torn from a book in Spanish (not visible online).
Response by libertyforall - description clearly stated item was taken from a book. Bidder didn't read descri

(it looks like everything he sells is torn from books, encylopedias, magazines, etc.!!!)

AND, HE ALSO RIPS PEOPLE OFF WITH S&H CHARGES:

Neutral : NICE PICTURE BUT CHARGES $4.30 SHIPPING WITH ONLY A 0.57 CENT STAMP
Response by libertyforall - If you don't agree with CLEARLY STATED low flat rate S&H of $4.30 DONT BID

Neutral : charged $7.30 for shipping and mailed for 85 cents , took 2 months to receive !!
Response by libertyforall - Payment received late then complains about clearly stated international S&H!
Follow-up by gary.crouse@ns.sympatico.ca - Sellers like this RUIN ebay by gouging customers on postage

Complaint : Charges High Dollar Shipping For First Class Mail, Shame on you!!!!
Response by libertyforall - LOW $4.30 FLAT RATE S&H policy CLEARLY STATED. If blind or dumb dont bid!
Follow-up by metalman123@earthlink.net - WOW, $3.90 handling to put a piece of paper in an envelope. Thats exhausting!

Neutral : buyer beware .99 items 450+ postage, actual postage similar item .34
Response by libertyforall - clearly stated $4.30 flat rate S&H is reasonable If u dont like it dont bid!
Follow-up by dr.strange2465 - calls people names who complain, disgrace to name libertyforall

Neutral : Charged 4.30 shipping--sent item for 34 cents?????????
Response by libertyforall - If u dont agree with terms dont bid LOSER Complains about issues stated in terms
Follow-up by suntrans - Ebay should do something about sellers who gouge on shipping!!!!!!

Complaint : POSTAGE & PACKING CHARGED 8 TIMES MORE THAN ACTUAL WILL NOT BID HERE AGAIN
Response by libertyforall - INTERNATIONAL S&H of $8 1st $2 additional stated IN TERMS DONT LIKE IT DONT BID!

Complaint : Overcharged for shipping by 10X! shouldn't have started at .01 if wanted more
Response by libertyforall - Low $4.30 S&H charge CLEARLY STATED IN DESCRIPTION! IF YOU DON'T AGREE DONT BID!

Neutral : Paid $5.15 for s&h,package says he paid $.80 Other than that, it was a pleasure!
Response by libertyforall - Shipping AND HANDLING charge clearly stated. Don't like it? Then don't bid!
Follow-up by jh4578 - INFLATES SHIPPING PRICES TO MAKE $$; SHOULD BE BANNED FROM EBAY; RUDE!


AND, WE KNOW THIS IS ROY HUFF, BECAUSE:

riksnot(46) Apr-17-02 19:32:18 PDT 1085437416 S
Praise : ALL OF ROYS ORDERS RECEIVED TO BEST SATISFACTION!!! A+++

(This guy just doesn't know he got screwed yet...)

AND, ROY LOVES TO CALL EVERYONE NAMES, EVEN THOUGH SOMETIMES IT'S EVEN NEUTRAL FEEDBACK (and, of course, Roy is NEVER wrong)...

Neutral : Items received as advertised but no individual identification - otherwise OK
Response by libertyforall - R U saying U R 2 stupid 2 tell the diference. Its obvious. Absurd feedback!

Complaint : no communication i had no address and he told me that i had to pay with no info
Response by libertyforall - 2 confirmations sent both with address. This moron didnt bother to actually read

Neutral : Much confusion on shipping costs
Response by libertyforall - 2.15 1st cel .10 each additional is clear! If ur 2 stupid to follow dont bid!

Neutral : Loved the cells. Disappointed in shipping costs-paid $3.55, actual cost 45 cents
Response by libertyforall - My inexpensive shipping terms clearly stated Dont like it Dont bid Your to cheap

Praise : very happy with the deal-except i paid $2.25 in shipping when it cost them $.45
Response by libertyforall - Shipping AND HANLDING clearly stated. If you don't like it don't bid!
Follow-up by nippy71 - WHAT A RUDE SOB!!! I LEFT POSTIVE FEEDBACK FOR YOU AND YOU LEAVE ME NEGATIVE ?!?

(That above transaction was VERY CLASSY, Roy. Especially when YOU KNOW you are out there SCREWING PEOPLE OVER...)


BUT, IT ALWAYS COMES BACK TO WHAT HE DOES BEST:

Complaint : Picture not orginal, torn out of a book, buyers beware!!!!
Response by libertyforall - Item EXACTLY AS DESCRIBED. This idiot is 2 stupid 2 read the description!

Neutral : Kind of misleading in the auction, Leaf was nat apraised in the time stated
Response by libertyforall - Flat out lie. Item as described and from the year stated.

Complaint : After dealing with this person, I would not do it again.
Response by libertyforall - I dont know what this person is complaining about but its not worth neg feedback

Complaint : asked to authenticate 300 year old pages, don't appear old enough.. He refused
Response by libertyforall - Item is authentic! I offered a refund anyway he refused and leaves bogus feedbac



Complaint : All the comments he writes below are about him. HAHAHA! Weak map Watch him cry!
Response by libertyforall - Moron doesnt even bother to look at picture before bidding. His immaturity shows
Follow-up by snpr1 - Hard to ask "Hey, POS...Are ya selling me a crappy map from a schoolbook?"BIG L!


There are many, many more feedbacks like this on Roy's account, but I have to agree with the last Feedback guy I listed here, snpr1... Roy really is a POS.

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Posted By: Eric Eichelkraut(goudeyhunter)

about your points concerning Ebay's policies. The Issue of "Libertyforall", and subsequent paper issue distributors is a moot point to us, for which we have drawn a clear line in the sand with the facts surrounding that they are not recognized as cards, but rather toilet paper (you cracked me up with this analogy) that was never intended as a card. Ebay, as you mentioned, doesn't care about this point or that of the interests of the unlikely bidders of our hobby, but rather of their own interest in snagging the profits. The main problem with these auctions and it's concerns to Ebay, is that the market grows larger, daily, for the sellers of this junk (toilet paper).
The "Power Seller" issue is probably one of the largest problems that I have with Ebay. Time and time again, I've done business with a so called "power seller" who has had the business tactics of a convicted felon. There's a couple of individuals I can name right off the top of my head who deal vintage material and are marked with this so-called title. Just yesterday, I was calculating the percentage of a vintage card "power seller" who I had had a less than desirable confrontation with, and his positive feedback ratio was at 96%, 2% less than the requirement. I emailed Ebay with this oversite, but as you've pointed out, they probably won't touch the s.o.b
All in all, Ebay has several "pitfalls" as many of us can glaringly spot and provide a positive solution for. But from their standpoint, it's all about the benji's.....until it's on the front page of a newspaper or on MSNBC...

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Posted By: Albie O'Hanian

Another thing that the great libertyforall does is leave negative feedback automatically for anybody that leaves him neutral or negative or a positive with a less than flattering comment. He leaves negatives even though the buyer makes payment and accepts the item. Basically he represents everything that needs to be fixed with ebay.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Sadly, after Enron, WorldCom, et al, you would think corporate America would catch on, but greed at the highest levels is so strongly instilled that nothing will ever change unless actuall legilastion is passed to provide severe punishment to these people.

Miliken is a great example. Hell, I'd do the jail time he did if I could pocket the money that he did from all the scams he pulled. The fines he paid were a pitance compared to the money he made.

To quote George Carlin, the death penalty is given to the wrong criminals. Murder is generally a crime of passion and the death penalty is not at the top of their thought list when they committ the crime. But, still killing off a few of these white collar bastards for stealing money from the common folk and you'll see a quick change in the way business is done in America.

Jay

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Posted By: runscott

...to you wanting the death penalty for white collar crime! I don't like Roy Huff any more than the next person, but I have a more non-violent solution.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Death is too good for any of them. but if the penalties were such that they actually stood lose something other than a little cash, then things would probably change. Hell, if I had the ability to steal millions of dollars and then sit in a country club jail for a few years and pay meager fine, I would be at the front of the line to committ the crime.

Jay