National - Part Deux

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Posted By: Tom

Some other info on National..........

Went all 4 days. Attendance was relatively good although with a room that large, people kind of get swallowed up. Few times where it was pretty hectic in some areas. Almost without question, every dealer I talked to said they had a great show. There were a couple of 'annexes' or rooms off the main room and even the dealers in those (Scott B included) said they did well. Wonder how SCD will spin it to suit their needs in dealing with National vs. Sportsfest because Sportsfest stunk...........

Mastronet had a strong presence.....they were agressively picking up items for the December auction. More than a couple times I went back on a items (OJ cabinets and graded OJ's) where the dealer told me they'd be in the December 2002 auction including cabinets of Ewing/Mascot and Stovey (both with pinholes) and PSA5 Radbourn that was very nice overall.

Old Judges...........LOTS of OJ's around with most being in 2 places--Terry Knouse (UNGRADED) and Wayne Varner (GRADED by GAI). And......Lots of GAI graded OJ's. Kind of funny.........SC Plus had about 30 or more, Wayne had about 60-75 or more in cases in the 4-5 and up range with about 50-60 others ungraded. Terry's prices are now starting to look pretty inline with others, and in some cases, very reasonable.

Tik had the usual bevy of high $$ stuff but was conspicuously short of Old Judge Cabinets. Last couple Nationals his stock of those has been dwindling. Scott Brockelman had TONS of nice T204's, T205's, T207's, N28/N29's, C46's and many nice type cards graded and ungraded (one of which I rooted out for the cause.......).

Quite a few dealers had at least some pre-war and I'd rank it in top 2-3 Nationals from last 6-7 for Vintage, pre-war cards.

Prices were ALL over the board..........pricing for OJ graded cards for a 5 'common' (PSA, SGC, GAI) ranged from about $220 to $600. Obviously some of those may have been tougher players or poses, but there was a big disparity between what the cards were priced at versus what they've been selling for on ebay.......

Also......just a point of confusion for me.....one dealier I questioned about a GAI5 N172 Louisville player had $600 on the card but said he could only discount items BELOW $400. What's up with that? I know we all have our price points but to discount below $400 and not above? Why not price the cards higher (already TOO high at $600) and then discount. The perception at least is you then get a 'deal'. Okay, enough of the soapbox.

Was nice meeting Runscott, PeteCLD, Scott B, Leon (who showed me the Four Base Hits Kelly--WOW), Lee, Billjo & Jonstats from ebay, and others off and on at Scott B's table. I'm sure I missed meeting others.

There were few free handouts this year from card manufacturers. Not that I was spending a lot of time looking, but last year, Upper Deck was giving out golf promos that I was able to make 5-6 sets and sell on ebay (paid for my hotel!). This year nothing from anyone. Left more time to look at vintage stuff though.

Guess that's about it. Atlantic City next year. Will be hard pressed not to take all the money and put it on black or red or something hoping to double it to be able to buy more! (NOT gonna happen.............).

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Posted By: Jonathan Perry

THIS WAS MY FIRST NATIONAL, AND OVERALL I CAN SAY I WAS NOT THAT IMPRESSED WITH THE CHOICE OF VINTAGE MATERIAL OUT THERE. I GOT THERE AT 11AM ON WEDNESDAY SO I DON'T BELIEVE IT WAS ALL SNATCHED UP BEFORE I GOT THERE ON WEDNESDAY BY OTHER DEALERS. I WILL ADMIT THAT THERE SEEMED TO BE A TON OF OLD JUDGE AND MAYO'S FOR SALE. HOWEVER, THERE WERE HARDLY ANY RAW T CARDS FOR SALE THAT COULD RECEIVE DECENT GRADES. NOT MANY GOUDEY, DIAMOND STARS, PLAYBALL OR GUM CARDS AVAILIBLE FOR GRADING EITHER. I WAS EXPECTING A TON OF VINTAGE MATERIAL, BUT THERE WAS JUST NOTHING OUT THERE. MY GUESS, LIKE OTHERS HAVE MENTIONED IS THE LACK OF CARDS IS DUE TO THE POOR ECONOMY. MOST PRE WAR GRADED CARDS IN PSA 8 HOLDERS WERE PRICED ANYWHERE FROM 125%-150% OF SMR VALUE. WHICH I FOUND TO BE A FAIR PRICE BUT THEY JUST WERE NOT SELLING AT THOSE LEVELS. I THINK SOME DEALERS JUST ENJOY SHOWING WHAT THEY HAVE AMASSED OVER THE YEARS AND HAULING IT FROM ONE STATE TO THE NEXT. I WAS FORTUNATE TO MEET SCOTT B. FROM THE BOARD. HE HAS SOME REALLY NICE AND HARD TO FIND MATERIAL.

I ALSO FOUND IT STRANGE THAT SO MANY DEALERS SEEM TO HAVE 1963-1969 MICKEY MANTLE CARDS IN PSA 8 HOLDERS, ALL AT OR ABOVE BOOK. WHERE ARE ALL THE PSA 4-7 MANTLES. I SAW ONLY A HANDFULL. A PSA 7 MANTLE IS A GREAT CARD AND I DON'T KNOW WHY DEALERS DO NOT HAVE MORE OF THEM FOR SALE.

LASTLY, AND I AM CURIOUS IF ANYONE ON THE BOARD AGREES WITH ME ON THIS ONE, I BELIEVE MANY DEALERS OVER GRADE THEIR RAW CARDS AND ON TOP OF THAT CHARGE TOO MUCH. MAYBE IT IS ME BUT I AM TIRED OF GOING TO SHOW AFTER SHOW AND SEEING THE SAME DEALERS WITH THE SAME STUFF CHARGING THE SAME PRICE. IF YOU HAVE A RAW CARD THAT YOU HAVE SHOWN AT 10+ SHOWS IN A 6 MONTH PERIOD AND IT STILL HAS NOT BEEN SOLD, WHY CAN'T SOME OF THESE DEALERS REALIZE EITHER GRADE THE CARD OR LOWER THE PRICE.

I LOOK FOWARD TO READING SOME FEEDBACK, AND GUESS I WILL HAVE TO LOOK FOWARD TO FT. WASHINGTON.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Many dealers get there hands on a 'valuable' card and then put a huge price tag on it to try and impress people with it. At the National, no one cares, but when they do small shows, they get a lot of an 'oh and ah' factor by the unknowing.

Jay

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Posted By: scott (runscott)

As many people as I managed to meet, there were still a few that slipped by. As Andy enjoyed pointing out, me and Steve Verkman were having a buddy-buddy conversation, talking cards for quite some time before Leon came up and commented on the irony of the situation.

One especially fun visit was meeting the guy who handled the Nap Rucker estate - he lives right down the road in Marietta and invited me over to see his collection which includes several Nap Rucker cabinets. Luckily I met him Sunday afternoon at 4pm, long after I had spent twice my allotted funds.

I bought a lot of really cool stuff, but this was the neatest. It has vintage print and is on card stock. Best guess is that it was cut from an unknown candy box and 2nd-generation plates were made from an e95.



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no disclaimer - temporarily taking responsibility for my actions

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

First of all I would like to Thank everyone that was at the show for leaving the $75 VG/EX Buchner ( if not better) that I picked up as i was about to leave the show Sunday. I was going to post an image but I can't remember my password.
It was great to put some faces to names at the show, I think there was about fifteen board members I met. I do have pictures from our dinner night out and Pete, Leon, Steve Lucas (vorthian) and myself at Wrigley. I will post them as soon As I get them and figure out my password.
I was at the show on Thursday and Sunday. I bought a lot of M101-2's on Thursday. Friday I went to Chicago and spent more money on art work than baseball items, so I had to make up for that on Sunday and proceeded to spend well over my budgeted money. Overall it was a great show and experience. I would also like to thank Scott B. for putting up with us hanging around his table. I think he scared the guy on the table next to him, he never showed up Sunday.

Just to comment about the second post about the lack of vintage cards, I would have to disagree, I thought there was a great variety and nice selection. Obviously if you are looking for something specfic it may not have been there but there was everything from BMW's OJ SGC98 to less expensive vintage stuff, and Teryy Knauss table was fun just to look at and I did buy an A&G Carruthers from him.

by the way Leon's Ball Four was pretty cool, but he did have it surgically attached while he was in Chicago.

Lee