"perfection-challenged" old tobacco cards

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Posted By: runscott

I'm really curious how the rest of you feel about these cards that are variously labelled "proofs","printer scrap","errors","miscuts",etc...

We've had past debates over what a "proof" is, but I'm asking about any card that was involved in the "testing" process and never was intended for production - if that's the definition of a "proof", great. I recently got an email from another collector who was complaining about my $1,300 BIN on the OBAK with the upside-down miscut back. He said it was "printer scrap", but I had a right to get whatever the market would bear. The thing that was curious to me was that he was so emotional about the whole thing. I'm sure you've all noticed all the t206 "errors" showing up on ebay recently - I'm not sure what caused these to come out of the woodworks, but I'm glad, since I've been collecting them from the moment I got interested in vintage card - to me they are a window into the history of how old tobacco cards were producted. It allows me to feel closer to the production process, which we don't really know that much about. Any thoughts? If anyone else loves these cards the way I do, let me know - I have several unexplained curiosities and more keep popping up.

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Posted By: David

I've long been fan of 'production stuff' for both old and modern cards, including proofs, scraps, uncut sheets, original art, printing plates, etc.

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Posted By: petecld

I will agree with you 100% they are facinating and do give you a great insight into the production process. When these production errors are called "printer scrap","errors","miscuts",etc. then I don't have any problem. They are being labeled correctly and if someone feels they are worth a premium - wonderful! I don't have the desire to prize someone's errors so I don't put a premium on them but that is just me. A card with color missing is simply just that - a card with color missing.

I do have aproblem when sellers calling them proofs. I proof is a specific item and I can see how they would be prized by collectors. They are almost always one-of-a-kind and served a specific part in the marketing/production process.

I don't know why some people are justfied calling a card a proof because it isn't finished with the printing process and cut to size and then somehow these "proofs" get sprinkled with fairy dust and become "cards" and then put into cigarette packs. ??? Sorry fir the smart a** "fairy dust" thing, like I said, this bugs me.

Would you buy a car that rolled right off the assembly line but was missing the paint? Would you call that car a proof and use it as the standard for all other cars off that line to look to? I don't think so.

Printer's proofs are never massed produced the same way the cards are. In the coin field, YES, proofs are mass produced and are an idealized version of the coin and STILL are producd differently then the coins we find in our pockets & in our couches so why would someone think a card with missing colors is some kind of proof?!!!

They only serve as "PROOF" that the printers were human and made mistakes. I'm not knocking the printers either. Honestly, considering the quantity that T206 cards that were obviously made back then I'm surprised we don't see more of these errors.

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Posted By: runscott

I saw an e-95 Krause recently, advertised as a proof, but suspect it was cut from a poster. I haven't seen any caramel printer-scrap though.

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Posted By: petecld

In the past I have seen the E96 Lajoie "proof" SGC graded. It was on paper stock and offered as a "proof" but I just didn't see it. Quality was no better then the issued cards and the 4 figure asking price put it out of my gambling budget. Thanks to an ebay auction we know they that came from a kid's school notebook cover so I'm glad I passed on it.

The owner of the notebook also owns a few other single cards of E96s on paper stock. It seems likely there were a series of notebook covers that used the Philadelphia caramel card art. I think that is where all of these paper stock versions came from. Tbob may have the one exception. ???

As for an advertising poster - possible, but speculation at this point. Hopefully one will be found. I don't know of one existing. That would one piece I think I would meet the reserve on.

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Posted By: John

Just exactly how do you love the cards?....you know me,if a card has a error or miscut like no name,or a t206 chance with the name up top,or even cards with multiple backs printed upside down ,i just throw the card out....i learned that error cards are shunned by normal cards and have been ganged up on in the past while locked in my safe,so thats why i started throwing them out,to keep the "normal" cards happy

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Posted By: runscott

...so I now encapsulate them in thick holders (for their own protection) and surround them with larger "happy" cards like Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig. I keep Cobb and McGraw in a different box.

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Posted By: HalleyGator

Do "Sunny" Jim Bottomley and "Happy" Felsch lead the guys in a morning cheer everyday??

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Posted By: john

I actually bought a Jim Bottomley card for that reason but he just sided with the normal cards ....im gonna try scotts idea,i figure with all the bad ideas he has hes overdue for a good idea.....and scott, my sincere condolences on the loss of your obak card for exactly the reserve price

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Posted By: runscott

At least it went to a true appreciator of "error" cards. Charlie was the first vintage collector I ever exchanged emails with - he's responsible for getting me interested in ****'ed up tobacco cards to begin with! But John, you're responsible for my surrealistic-vintage card ideas.

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Posted By: john

as soon as i look up surrealistic i'll either appreciate that comment or have a good comeback for it..... alot of people i know say i corrupt people,not in a bad way(i think), just make them act different as far as there sense of humor....i think i would make a good dictator because people always seem to act like me after they meet me,but luckily for everyone else i now live on a big farm 20 miles east of no where,so i cant corrupt as often as i would like

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

My vote goes for Mike as dictator, but you could maybe be one of his henchmen.

Lee

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Posted By: Anonymous