Another AH Kick in the Groin

[Yoda]

When trying to retrieve 3 cards (nothing special) from the Collector's Vault,, I was horrified to see that the cards I was trying to retrieve were going to be charged for insurance the same as the cards' value, as determined by them, or a 100% rate on line. I quickly cancelled the request and spent the rest of the morning brooding about AH's and their rapacious behavior.
This is a brazen attempt to discourage Vault withdraws and rather list in a future Collector's auction. This is nothing short of cardnapping.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Yoda

When trying to retrieve 3 cards (nothing special) from the Collector's Vault,, I was horrified to see that the cards I was trying to retrieve were going to be charged for insurance the same as the cards' value, as determined by them, or a 100% rate on line. I quickly cancelled the request and spent the rest of the morning brooding about AH's and their rapacious behavior.
This is a brazen attempt to discourage Vault withdraws and rather list in a future Collector's auction. This is nothing short of cardnapping.

Do you mean charged for insurance to send them back to you? What is the value?

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Do you mean charged for insurance to send them back to you? What is the value?

That's exactly what I mean.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I'm all for calling out bad behavior but I'm not seeing it here. Are you saying you don't want to insure them during shipping? Then if something happens you'll be furious when they don't make good. Or are you saying you want them to eat the cost of the insurance?

If you had taken shipping immediately after the auction they would've charged you for insurance right, so what's the difference now?

I'm really confused by this rant.

EDIT: Or are you saying the cost of the proposed insurance is actually equal to the value of the cards? If that's the case, then yes, that's bonkers.

I don't know how it works with larger companies. Can you call someone and talk to a human?

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I'm all for calling out bad behavior but I'm not seeing it here. Are you saying you don't want to insure them during shipping? Then if something happens you'll be furious when they don't make good. Or are you saying you want them to eat the cost of the insurance?

If you had taken shipping immediately after the auction they would've charged you for insurance right, so what's the difference now?

I'm really confused by this rant.

Scott, I probably didn't explain myself very well. Collectors wanted to charge me $285 for insurance to ship me 3 items from their Vault. This insurance premium equates exactly to the stated value of the cards, or in insurance terms a 100% rate on line. Why would anybody buy insurance when the premium is the same as the insured value? Better to self-insure.

The difference for me, and many others, to use the Vault is to save on state taxes and as a temporary storehouse before retriving or listing.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Scott, I probably didn't explain myself very well. Collectors wanted to charge me $285 for insurance to ship me 3 items from their Vault. This insurance premium equates exactly to the stated value of the cards, or in insurance terms a 100% rate on line. Why would anybody buy insurance when the premium is the same as the insured value? Better to self-insure.

The difference for me, and many others, to use the Vault is to save on state taxes and as a temporary storehouse before retriving or listing.

That's some pretty rich insurance!!!

Whenever I ship on eBay using USPS Ground, $100 worth of insurance comes standard, and if you want to bump it up to $300, it doesn't cost more than maybe an extra $5 or $10. Not sure where they get off charging $285 to insure $285 worth of cards. But maybe their rate of losing stuff is so high that their only choice is to charge full freight for insurance to cover the cost of their ineptitude.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Scott, I probably didn't explain myself very well. Collectors wanted to charge me $285 for insurance to ship me 3 items from their Vault. This insurance premium equates exactly to the stated value of the cards, or in insurance terms a 100% rate on line. Why would anybody buy insurance when the premium is the same as the insured value? Better to self-insure.

The difference for me, and many others, to use the Vault is to save on state taxes and as a temporary storehouse before retriving or listing.

So that is crazy. Good luck.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Scott, I probably didn't explain myself very well. Collectors wanted to charge me $285 for insurance to ship me 3 items from their Vault. This insurance premium equates exactly to the stated value of the cards, or in insurance terms a 100% rate on line. Why would anybody buy insurance when the premium is the same as the insured value? Better to self-insure.

The difference for me, and many others, to use the Vault is to save on state taxes and as a temporary storehouse before retriving or listing.

I realized it after I posted, hence the edit. Yes, that's nuts.

[CardPadre]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Scott, I probably didn't explain myself very well. Collectors wanted to charge me $285 for insurance to ship me 3 items from their Vault. This insurance premium equates exactly to the stated value of the cards, or in insurance terms a 100% rate on line. Why would anybody buy insurance when the premium is the same as the insured value? Better to self-insure.

The difference for me, and many others, to use the Vault is to save on state taxes and as a temporary storehouse before retriving or listing.

I'm really thinking you misread the "$285" as a charge for insurance instead of just the amount that's covered. Sounds like you didn't actually check-out and pay for the shipping, right?

[Fred]

John,

Just think what the insurance charges would be if the cards were worth about $150K - 170K? It'd probably be 10x that.

It's definitely something to consider if you want to pull out cards from the Collectors vault (assuming they want to charge full rate for insurance). It's certainly a consideration.

Just curious, would they charge the same if you won the auction and didn't use the vault service?

[Eric72]

Paying $285 to insure $285 worth of items sounds ludicrous.

If this is indeed the case, there's one more aspect of modern collecting I'm happily doing without.

Vaults? Unless it's a bank vault, no thanks.

Breaking? So, I can "buy" a team slot and walk away with absolutely nothing? Hard pass.

NFTs? No F***ing Thanks.

Now that I think about it, it seems like there's a common thread here. There are lots of bad ideas that involve collectors paying money and not getting actual cards in return.

[Exhibitman]

I don't have a lot of sympathy here because it seems fittingly ironic that a vault deposit which was used for sales and use tax evasion purposes might cost more to unwind than the tax savings that resulted.

[Johnny630]

I'm sorry John that's a shame. Awful

[BRoberts]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I don't have a lot of sympathy here because it seems fittingly ironic that a vault deposit which was used for sales and use tax evasion purposes might cost more to unwind than the tax savings that resulted.

+1

[Fred]

Whoa, wait a minute, did I misunderstand this? The Collectors vault was going to charge $285 to ship $285 dollars worth of cards? That makes no sense at all.

I don't do the vault thing. I'd rather have my cards in hands.

That sounds absolutely ludicrous that the vault would do that. What would have been the charge if you were to have had the cards shipped to you when the auction was won?

Is this a common "vault strategy"? I often wondered how these vaults make money for storing/holding people's cards. Is this common for all vaults? Do the companies with vaults have a storage fee? Just curious, what happens if the vault company goes bankrupt and the records for the card owners is "lost" or "corrupted"? How could you get restitution?
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[Gorditadogg]

This is only a guess, but I think the wording might have been something like "insurance coverage is $285" meaning that's the maximum claim amount. Somebody could misinterpret that and think that was the premium cost.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

This is only a guess, but I think the wording might have been something like "insurance coverage is $285" meaning that's the maximum claim amount. Somebody could misinterpret that and think that was the premium cost.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

I would bet this too

[brianp-beme]

If indeed it would cost $285 for insurance on your three cards to be shipped to you, you might consider a vault cracker for hire to liberate them for you.

I would suggest giving Johnny "Nimble Fingers" McCoy a call, if he is indeed out of the slammer. Word on the street is he's free as a lark and looking for his next card vault cracking gig.


Brian

[bk400]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I don't have a lot of sympathy here because it seems fittingly ironic that a vault deposit which was used for sales and use tax evasion purposes might cost more to unwind than the tax savings that resulted.

OT, but I'm all for tax avoidance strategies that are accessible for the normal working person. It's not like the political and financial elite voluntarily pay more taxes than they could.

[The Detroit Collector]

Originally Posted by bk400

OT, but I'm all for tax avoidance strategies that are accessible for the normal working person. It's not like the political and financial elite voluntarily pay more taxes than they could.

Heard the Louvre Robbers are a good second option once they are free

[Leon]

+1
And if you know good ole John (hey John) like I do, it could have been the max claim amount and not the cost of insurance. I am 98% sure there was a communication interpretation issue with this one.

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

This is only a guess, but I think the wording might have been something like "insurance coverage is $285" meaning that's the maximum claim amount. Somebody could misinterpret that and think that was the premium cost.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[gregndodgers]

All this discussion for an additional cost of $285? If you sneeze nowadays, it will cost you $285. Now, if the additional cost was over $1,000, then it might move the needle for me.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by bk400

OT, but I'm all for tax avoidance strategies that are accessible for the normal working person. It's not like the political and financial elite voluntarily pay more taxes than they could.

doh, doh, doh... that's an interesting point
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[Leon]

Originally Posted by gregndodgers

All this discussion for an additional cost of $285? If you sneeze nowadays, it will cost you $285. Now, if the additional cost was over $1,000, then it might move the needle for me.

IF you don't want $285, I will take it?
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[petecld]

Originally Posted by Yoda

This is a brazen attempt to discourage Vault withdraws and rather list in a future Collector's auction. This is nothing short of cardnapping.

This is just dawning on you now? Did everyone really think PWCC was going to give you an out for avoiding sales tax just out of the goodness of their hearts?


Don't get me wrong. Charging the full value of the cards for the insurance fee is wrong and sounds like a clerical error.

[Yoda]

I think you guys are right and the $285 is the stated value amount of the cards and not an insurance premium. Problem is I don't want to click on the pay button and find out this is not the case, costing me $285 for nothing. Has anybody else ever had a similar experience?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I'd never pay anything without being 100% sure how much I'm actually paying. Just got into it with Beckett for some on site authentication. They wanted me to give them payment info and I hadn't received an invoice yet. Hard to believe people do business this way.