NYT Interviews Hobby Execs at National--What's Right and Wrong with Hobby

[marzoumanian]

I enjoyed this read. Some of these guys provided good insights. But I'll let the forum decide if I am right or wrong. Enjoy and peace.


Sports card industry leaders on what’s working and why trust needs to be improved


By Larry Holder
Aug. 7, 2025Updated 3:13 pm CDT
The “state of the hobby” seems like a never-ending topic within the sports collectibles and memorabilia space, with the scales of the “state” always shifting dramatically from one day to the next, depending on who you talk to.

The success of events like the National Sports Collectors Convention and Fanatics Fest only emphasizes the growth in the sports card and memorabilia industry. Conversely, flaws within the hobby remain in need of addressing.



When asked at The National what needs work within this industry, Fanatics Collectibles CEO Mike Mahan asked without hesitation, “How long you got?”

While attending the event, I caught up with executives from some of the biggest power players in the space to discuss what’s working and what needs to improve within the hobby. Here are the companies I spoke with:

Arena Club
eBay
Fanatics/Topps
Goldin
Heritage
PSA (Professional Sports Authenticator)
Upper Deck
Whatnot
What’s working within the hobby?
Ken Goldin, Goldin Auctions founder/CEO

“Quite frankly, the cementing of women’s sports as a category. In 2012, it did not exist. Then a couple of Serena Williams cards hit and then somebody who captured the world’s imagination like Caitlin Clark comes in and we sell one of her college cards, I think it was like $90,000, and people go, ‘Oh my God!’ Then we just continued to do it. … If I told somebody 10 years ago that I would sell a WNBA card for $500,000, let alone even $10,000, they would have said you’re out of your mind. It’s really creating a new industry and it created a new mindset for a lot of people. That, without question, is the biggest change over the past couple of years in trading cards.”

Ryan Hoge, PSA president

“I think the level of new people coming into the hobby at different ages, men and women, that’s going really well. Just walk around The National. A bunch of kids with their dads having fun, being excited about cards. There’s the Whatnot area, they’re doing (box) breaking. That’s a whole new thing that didn’t exist five years ago. It’s cool to see. … I think it’s fun and you’re seeing innovative ways to buy cards. You’re seeing innovative ways to collect them, to sell them, to connect with the community.”

Adam Ireland, eBay vice president/general manager of global collectibles

“The thing that actually gets me really excited for the health of the hobby overall is the number of new sports that we really are seeing take off. And that goes from stuff that’s maybe a little bit more known like WNBA. Obviously Caitlin Clark has just been a phenomenon, And really that’s changing the entire seasonality of the business in some ways. It normally could be a quieter time of year for some sports, but you’ve got some really high value cards that are starting to be in the market. I think you actually wrote about the (Carlos) Alcaraz cards that we saw in tennis. So you start to see that going through F1 now for a couple of years it’s been continuing to grow. I think we’ve seen that up over 50 percent in the first half of the year.”




“There’s so much data available around what’s going on in the hobby. And the data gets more democratized, you get more liquidity in the market. It’s the same as with the stock market when you only have people historically there sort of shouting out across the trading floor. There’s only so much buying and selling that is going to happen. You get into more of an e-trade world, and obviously like stock market prices and values go up. That’s one of the things we’ve been really focused on is how do we really integrate data and give people more trust in the transaction.”

Chris Ivy, Heritage Auctions director of sports auctions

“It’s interesting because I kind of focus on the vintage stuff, but you know the growth, just the foot traffic in this show is incredible. The amount of people that are showing up and then you know the mini shows, the cottage industry of shows that are happening after the doors closed on this show (trade nights, the off-site soccer cards show). It’s incredible. In hotel lobbies, the trading, the youth that are involved. I think it just bodes really well for the industry as a whole.

“It reminds me a lot of what was going on in the ‘80s as far as like when I was a kid and just the excitement around the hobby and people getting involved.”

Brian Lee, Arena Club founder/CEO

“I think the hobby is continuing to grow as you notice walking The National here. It’s the most packed I’ve ever seen it. I’ve been here quite a few years and never seen it like this. I’ve gone to local shows. Never seen the local shows like that. And so there’s definitely something going on in the industry that’s really piquing people’s interest. It’s just the excitement of the chase. The rarity of some of these cards. You see these young kids get involved now. It’s at least 25 percent of the folks in here are under 18, right? So that means that the hobby is very healthy, it’s growing, it’s extending and it’s price safe for future generations or secure for future generations.

“I also think it’s just more awareness, too. I think Fanatics has done an amazing job in terms of bringing more awareness to the hobby.”




Mike Mahan, Fanatics Collectibles CEO

“I think that there’s a lot of things that are going right. I think you’re seeing that with the level of the number of people and the level of enthusiasm here (at The National) tends to be a pretty good proxy for the health of the market. These are the most experienced collectors. They’ll tell you with their wallets. Obviously there’s broader economics that play into that, but you see the lines around the corner when people are shutting down on a Thursday for capacity issues. That’s a very illuminating sign.

“It always starts with the product and I think that, while not perfect, I think we are making special products. I think the team has made a massive amount of product innovation. I think the way we’re dealing with athletes and bringing them into the hobby, whether it’s (Topps) Rip Night, whether it’s signing, whether it’s Fanatics Fest, whether it’s those participating in social media.

“Look at the number of baseball players right now that are collecting cards. It was probably 10 players a few years ago. Now it’s probably 150. It was funny because I went to Card Vault (a shop opened by Tom Brady and his partners across from Wrigley Field) last night and the whole Cubs team was there. Justin Steele is looking at display cases like, ‘Can I buy a case?’ and they just want to rip. That is not a happy accident, right?”

Jason Masherah, Upper Deck president

“I think the thing that is the most exciting to me is the youth around the hobby. Coming back to the hotel (at The National), there’s an impromptu trade night and there’s a couple hundred kids there with their cards, their money, they’re transacting. To me, it takes me back to the ‘90s. So many of us grew up in the same culture. We were out doing deals, hustling. We were learning the value of money. What a good deal is, what a bad deal is, profit and loss. Watching these kids transact and learn these life lessons about collecting and doing business is super exciting.”

Armand Wilson, Whatnot vice president of categories

“More and more people are just coming into the hobby of all different types and so you see it here (at The National). The diversity across the people that have booths here has really, really changed. There’s still people here who’ve had booths for 20, 30 years and that’s what makes this place great. But you also see people that have popped up in the last couple of years and have been able to reconnect in the hobby or been behind the scenes and now they’ve been able to grow and have a presence here.

“I think collectibles and I think cards are having a moment right now. I think a lot of people are very nostalgic for those moments. Most sports fans have that moment where they’re opening up packs of cards with their dad at a shop, and I think cards are very topical right now, all the companies are having huge years.”

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What we learned at The National: The good, the bad, and the smelly
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What’s not working?
Goldin

“I think licensed manufacturers need to put out a product that the consumer is happier with so that a first-time buyer doesn’t feel they spent $150 a box and then they go on whatever app they use and they see their cards are worth $14. That has to stop happening. The second thing is, again, the licensed manufacturers need to let a flourishing industry flourish on their own. They can’t try to dictate what something sells for. They can’t try to be the same person who manufactures the card, and then, oh, if you pull this card, we’ll get it graded for you and we’ll sell it ourselves. They’re literally trying to monopolize and take all the money out of everybody’s hands. In terms of what happened recently in the news with the memorabilia frauds, you need to know and trust who you’re buying it from.



“I look at who we get (items) from and I confidently told everyone I don’t think we sold one single item from this guy (Brett Lemieux). I don’t care how many he claims to have sold, but I think that this is why you need to buy from a stable business, somebody who’s got a great reputation, somebody you can call the next day, someone who was there six months ago and is going to be there six months from now and has a history. If there is a problem, because look, every business no matter how hard we try, there are problems. But it’s how you deal with those problems and how you satisfy the customer that counts.”

Hoge (PSA)

“I want to make sure that the hobby doesn’t lose kind of the collector focus. It seems like it’s heavily indexing on the hustler, like the flipper. That’s cool. That’s faster (way to make money) that’s fun. But I think you need to have a healthy balance. The hobby has always had this tension of passion and nostalgia versus profit.

“I like seeing the innovation on the card side so I think continuing to have compelling products like less sticker autos, more actual game-used relics is really cool. At various price points too, making sure it’s accessible for collectors of all budgets. I think we’ve seen stuff drift to the higher end a little bit. Sometimes that can price out newer collectors or people with different budgets, so I think having a good balance there is also important.

“I think for us, I think we’re continuing to just focus on accuracy and quality and being able to just keep up with the demand so that, in turn, we can do the same thing. Faster turnaround times, potentially lower prices. It just enables more people to collect and have fun. Just transparency.”

Ireland (eBay)

“So much depends on trust, right? You’ve got to believe that you’re getting a trusted transaction. That’s why we’ve invested in the authentication guarantee program. It’s why you’ve got things like money-back guarantee on the eBay platform in general, you know, obviously unfortunate news. A couple of weeks ago (referring to the accusations of counterfeit items being sold on eBay) that just demonstrated that that is always going to be something where we’re going to need to continue to raise the bar, and it’s something that we’re always at eBay going to take really, really seriously.”

Ivy (Heritage)

“The most important thing is to make sure that we’re doing a good job of policing. The people that are selling stuff that isn’t authentic, counterfeit material and stuff like that, we don’t want people getting ripped off. It was a huge issue in the ‘80s and ‘90s, a little bit like the wild west. Third-party grading and authentication comes along and gets more stringent for the authentication. I think the more comfortable people are and collectors are, the more they’re willing to spend. So I think that’s one of the main reasons we’ve seen the growth of the hobby. I think it’s important we continue that trajectory and just make sure this material is vetted as well as possible. Because there are always issues. Any time there’s money involved, there’s going to be people trying to make a quick dollar. So we just have to stay diligent and especially what just happened recently.”

Lee (Arena Club)

“I think just better value. People are treating this as a land grab and it shouldn’t be. They’re looking for a quick buck, and it shouldn’t be. I’m here to build a brand. The Arena Club is trying to build a brand and brands take time. It’s really about delivering upon the promise to your customer consistently over time. It takes time, it takes money, it takes effort. It’s not gonna happen overnight. You can’t just have a money grab and be done with it. I think too many folks in this hobby, unfortunately, are treating this as a quick way to make money as opposed to trying to create something sustainable over time with a loyal customer.”



Mahan (Fanatics Collectibles)

“Remember three years ago or three and a half years ago, you had a business with massive levels of redemptions. Virtually no customer service. Virtually no innovation. Products that came out well after they were supposed to, in some cases years after. You had virtually no technology to speak of. I think the manufacturers took their collectors for granted. It was underinvested because typically it was a cyclical business and people didn’t — although, you had the COVID boom — people didn’t want to build the underlying infrastructure necessary to support the hobby because they didn’t know how long it would last. That’s the nicest way I can say it.

“The reality is that collecting is an awesome experience. The collector experience within the ecosystem is not great. And there have been years, if not decades, of what I’ll call ‘collector neglect’ that we’ve inherited. Some of those things take time to fix. And with the state of where we’re at right now in the hobby, focusing on both quality control, improvements and getting product out on time and meeting the demands of where collectors are today, and all of the on-card autographs and the relics that collectors rightfully expect, that’s hard. The infrastructure wasn’t there, so that’s been a bit of a work in progress. We still have delays. It’s a lot less than it used to be, but there’s sometimes still quality issues or defects that we deal with. I think we’re infinitely better, but that’s still a process.”

Masherah (Upper Deck)

“I think the elephant in the room right now is the responsibility of the manufacturers to provide easier authentication services both on the memorabilia and the trading card side of the ledger. I think whenever a market is super hot, you end up attracting a lot of bad actors. It’s hard because every time you take a step forward, the bad actors catch up and sometimes go ahead. How do we as manufacturers try to stay ahead of the bad actors in the industry. …

“I’m really excited about where the industry is right now. For us, it’s been great the last 10 to 15 years. We’ve seen a growth and for us it’s about collecting. It’s about the purity of collecting. I think we’ve done a really good job of staying on that. And if you look, our products typically provide the best value from a cost-of-box-to-return standpoint at the end of the day, and we’ve done a good job of maintaining the prices of our products and making them affordable. We want to make the hobby accessible and there’s a lot of things in this industry that are leading people to get priced out, right?

“Breaking is a great thing for a lot of people. It’s very entertaining. But when you break up the price of a box or a case 30 ways, it gives an illusion that the price of the product is less and the breakers are willing to continue to pay more for the product, which drives the product up, the price. The people who want to just buy a box of cards are now priced out and it’s a problem. I don’t know where that equilibrium comes. I think we’ve done a pretty good job on our products, but you kind of understand why the market has gone the way it is. It’s disappointing that a person who just wants to buy a single box is essentially priced out and the only way for them to get into it is breaking, right? So they’re having to pay more. … It is pretty clear when one of the company’s main brand is a $1,000 box, it’s an issue.”

Wilson (Whatnot)

“There’s always opportunities for things to improve and get better. So for us, the main thing that we think about is how do you build a really trustworthy platform. That’s our number one priority.

“Our CEO has made it his number one priority as a personal project. How do you grow the hobby and have new people enter and make sure that we’re building it in a way that’s super trustworthy and providing a really amazing experience for both buyers and sellers of all kinds.”

[BobbyStrawberry]

Box breaking didn't exist five years ago?

[JollyElm]

To call baseball card collecting these days a hobby, is like calling the Corleone family olive oil importers.

[Snapolit1]

Young kids investing and gambling. Woo Hoo!

Hope their liquidity holds up so they can pounce on the next market development and deploy their cash effectively to maximize their short term return.

[parkplace33]

Hoge (PSA)

“I want to make sure that the hobby doesn’t lose kind of the collector focus. It seems like it’s heavily indexing on the hustler, like the flipper. That’s cool. That’s faster (way to make money) that’s fun. But I think you need to have a healthy balance. The hobby has always had this tension of passion and nostalgia versus profit.

Too late for this to change. We have gone wayyyy past this.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

Hoge (PSA)

“I want to make sure that the hobby doesn’t lose kind of the collector focus. It seems like it’s heavily indexing on the hustler, like the flipper. That’s cool. That’s faster (way to make money) that’s fun. But I think you need to have a healthy balance. The hobby has always had this tension of passion and nostalgia versus profit.

Too late for this to change. We have gone wayyyy past this.

This quote is exactly what has happened to Major League and College Sports across this country it's turned into a money making gambling pit. That's where the money is made now. It's no longer on the love or passion for the team it's on the point spread.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Are any of these people saying anything we don't already know?

Note to anybody who hasn't read the article: If you are even halfway familiar with the state of the hobby, save yourself the several minutes it took to read this. There's nothing new to be gleaned as far as I could tell. Not to be unappreciative to OP for posting it. If someone else finds anything of interest within, then more power to them.

[minibbcards]

the fact that several of them said this reminded them of the days of the 80s and 90s should be a frightening statement for nostalgia of the junk wax era

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by minibbcards

the fact that several of them said this reminded them of the days of the 80s and 90s should be a frightening statement for nostalgia of the junk wax era

Exactly. This hobby is predictably cyclical. Boom and bust/lull. The modern material has always been the cause of the upsurge and downfall. As we all like to say, it's good for our side of the hobby when it brings new blood to vintage.

[BioCRN]

Anecdotal vintage observations, nonetheless...

Back in 2019-2021 I saw a lot of people come into vintage who were renewing their interest in collecting...mostly people who collected in the 80s/90s, but left the hobby. After quenching their thirst for re-gaining the cards they had as a kid, they wanted the pre-1980s cards they couldn't afford when they were kids.

The past few years I'm seeing a lot more people who are somewhat new to the hobby gravitate toward vintage. They're showing off the start of their new vintage collections and there seems to be a real focus on building a collection, not just buying to flip.

Who knows how long it will last. The seller part of me enjoyed the 2019+ boom. The buyer in me longs for the near decade long stagnation of prices before that era.

[Exhibitman]

They're asking the wrong people. All we hear from are the people making money off the collectors. That's like asking the bar owners on San Francisco's Barbary Coast about the gold mining business. Where is the collector input? Where is the dealer input? It reads like a PR puff piece for the parasitical businesses that make money by sticking their blood funnels into every collector as many times as they can because that is what it is.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

You're correct in that there's no useful information for people in our vintage realm, be it cards, memorabilia or autographs. If you lived through 1989-92, then you know everything you need to know. Same scenario, different generation. Oh! But now also featuring women athletes! The companies will inundate people with modern junk until everyone tires of it and moves on to 2027's version of Beanie Babies.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

They're asking the wrong people. All we hear from are the people making money off the collectors. That's like asking the bar owners on San Francisco's Barbary Coast about the gold mining business. Where is the collector input? I think there is lots right about the hobby but lots that is wrong too, starting with the businesses that try to stick their blood funnels into every collector as many times as they can. That is why it reads like a PR puff piece: it is one. There are four very distinct businesses here: vintage cards, modern cards, vintage memorabilia, and modern manufactured memorabilia. Most of us, I assume, are uninterested in breaking boxes on whatnot and haven't purchased one of the thousands of identical signed (autopenned) display items from a Lemieux operation, except maybe as a birthday present for a non-collector.

Seems similar to what's happening in Las Vegas at the moment? They've been jacking up prices for years...charging for every little thing...nickeling and diming visitors with the hope of a big payday...until they broke. And now that gambling is mostly legal...this will likely continue...ruining people's lives while fattening the rich.

[parkerj33]

yes its stuff we already know...but one comment from goldin stood out to me: "I think licensed manufacturers need to put out a product that the consumer is happier with so that a first-time buyer doesn’t feel they spent $150 a box and then they go on whatever app they use and they see their cards are worth $14. ... They’re literally trying to monopolize and take all the money out of everybody’s hands. "

Its spot-on, and what all collectors are feeling, but its interesting to hear this from Goldin...as i believe Fanatics wants to take over every business on the list of people being interviewed (Aution houses, ebay, upper deck, breaking platforms, etc).....

[Brent G.]

Originally Posted by BioCRN

Anecdotal vintage observations, nonetheless...

Back in 2019-2021 I saw a lot of people come into vintage who were renewing their interest in collecting...mostly people who collected in the 80s/90s, but left the hobby. After quenching their thirst for re-gaining the cards they had as a kid, they wanted the pre-1980s cards they couldn't afford when they were kids.

This was me exactly. This site changed my entire approach to collecting about a year after I got back into collecting after 27 years. Once you go pre-war, you never go back. I just sold my most valuable card ('86 Fleer Jordan) to buy a 1912 postcard -- the conversion is complete.

I'm a 51-year-old Gen Xer — I gotta think there are a whole bunch in my generation doing the exact same thing, and each subsequent generation will as well.

[jsfriedm]

I would say the most interesting part is the list of things they didn't talk about, but probably should have:

1)CT scanning - this seems to be a major problem that the manufacturers can correct, but no one seems to be doing anything about it.

2)Repacks - what does it mean that this is so popular, it is sustainable, and what happens to the hobby if it collapses?

I'm sure there are more people can think of...

[jsfriedm]

Maybe add:

3)The integrity of the auction process: shill bidding, market manipulation, etc.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

They're asking the wrong people. All we hear from are the people making money off the collectors. That's like asking the bar owners on San Francisco's Barbary Coast about the gold mining business. Where is the collector input? Where is the dealer input? It reads like a PR puff piece for the parasitical businesses that make money by sticking their blood funnels into every collector as many times as they can because that is what it is.

Exactly. Immense conflict of interest, and not useful information. Ask the collectors and customers for honest input, and you'll get a vastly different response.

[chalupacollects]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

You're correct in that there's no useful information for people in our vintage realm, be it cards, memorabilia or autographs. If you lived through 1989-92, then you know everything you need to know. Same scenario, different generation. Oh! But now also featuring women athletes! The companies will inundate people with modern junk until everyone tires of it and moves on to 2027's version of Beanie Babies.

2027’s version of beanie babies is here… they are called Labubu dolls…lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

They're asking the wrong people. All we hear from are the people making money off the collectors. That's like asking the bar owners on San Francisco's Barbary Coast about the gold mining business. Where is the collector input? Where is the dealer input? It reads like a PR puff piece for the parasitical businesses that make money by sticking their blood funnels into every collector as many times as they can because that is what it is.

Yes, this. It's like asking the construction companies ripping out farmland and building subdivisions what they think about the housing market. Maybe ask some homeowners and farmers, too.

It



Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[Lorewalker]

The part I could tolerate reading screamed of an out of touch journalist asking questions to the exact people who are contributing to the fleecing of the public. I did not read most of the article so if I got the wrong impression, apologies to those I offended.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

The part I could tolerate reading screamed of an out of touch journalist asking questions to the exact people who are contributing to the fleecing of the public. I did not read most of the article so if I got the wrong impression, apologies to those I offended.

You could also add, "To those who laughed out loud at the comedic accuracy of what I wrote: 'You're welcome.'"

Intentional or otherwise, your observation was hilarious!

[Yoda]

Don't forget the impact on the hobby by Covid, particularly new pricing which now seems to be embedded in the hobby.....like it or not.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Don't forget the impact on the hobby by Covid, particularly new pricing which now seems to be embedded in the hobby.....like it or not.

Don 't forget inflation; consumer prices have increased about 24% since the pandemic started.

Pricing is dynamic. No one is capable of manipulating prices for long on commonly transacted items. If prices are high it is because demand has remained high. Demand has not remained high across the board. A 1986 Fleer Jordan in a PSA 9 has declined 90% from its peak. A PSA 2 1949 Bowman Jackie Robinson sells today for about 25% less than its peak sale in 2021 but is up nearly 50% since 2022; Robinson generally has been a hot commodity for the last few years.

When it comes to rarities, all bets are off, always. The most extreme version I can recall is registry-driven bidders beating the crap out of each other over a PSA 10 1975 Topps low pop common to the tune of $33,000; a $2 raw card in a $32,998 holder.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

To call baseball card collecting these days a hobby, is like calling the Corleone family olive oil importers.

+1000000 on that! Everyone needs to stop pretending. The only way it's a hobby is if you have mafia wealth. It's an industry.

[Exhibitman]

It can be whatever you want to make it. Hobby. Industry. Or both.

I spend a lot of time at any show at picker boxes. If you want to collect on a small budget you can. Just not some things. I spend what I am comfortable spending for my hobby; I spend what makes sense to spend for my business. The two don’t always align.

[Jewish-collector]

You can enjoy different aspects of this hobby/business/industry depending on your particular interests.

[doug.goodman]

I have been collecting for 50+ years and there have always been "cards" I couldn't afford...

[Republicaninmass]

Max optimism from the people at the top. Color me surprised.


"In terms of what happened recently in the news with the memorabilia frauds, you need to know and trust who you’re buying it from."

Ken Goldin...previous owner of The Scoreboard seller from home shopping network. When I had the items my grandmother purchased for me , via HSN authenticated, they all failed. I won't ever forget that. Fleecing old ladies, someone can come back from that. Hell, I'd probably forgive Mastro first.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

"In terms of what happened recently in the news with the memorabilia frauds, you need to know and trust who you’re buying it from."

Ken Goldin...previous owner of The Scoreboard seller from home shopping network. When I had the items my grandmother purchased for me , via HSN authenticated, they all failed. I won't ever forget that. Fleecing old ladies, someone can come back from that. Hell, I'd probably forgive Mastro first.

That's pretty (unintentionally?) funny, Ted.