Jackie Robinson photo, what is it?

[Johnphotoman]

Jackie Robinson photo, what is it?

I did pose this question before, in “Jackie Robinson, photograph used to produce 1952 Berk Ross Baseball Card?” But new information has come forward, but I'm still not sure what I have.

Old information suggests the photo was used to make the 1952 Berk Ross cards. In my search to find out what I have in my collection of 8x10 black and white photos. Some information was provided to me about the Jackie Robinson photo, being used to make his 1952 Berk Ross baseball card. Although no one officially said I have the photo that made the Berk Ross baseball card. The information would suggest so: The two linked articles- suggest the photo was used as a photostat to make the 1952 Berk Ross baseball card.



https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...%20would%20win



http://keymancollectibles.com/photos...4100.%2D%24200

Now I have always wondered if the photo was used to actually make the Berk Ross card. The problem is no one knows where the photos came from that Berk Ross used. The two linked articles say the photo was made from the original, making it a type 3 photo. If I am right, the articles suggest the photo was used as a photostat to make the 1952 Berk Ross baseball card. Meaning Brek Ross made the photo from the original, suggesting Berk Ross had added the name to the original photo to make the card.

But the new information I have suggests it could have been from a photo pack, I have other photos that do match other Berk Ross cards, and have proof that some of the Berk Ross cards could have been made from photo packs. One question I have.. are photo packs considered type 3.
I have so far acquired 9 Berk Ross baseball cards that match the photos in the collection, and I have noticed there are more, I do not know how many will match, but I know there are more. And I have other BB cards sets that match the photo collection from, R423 strip cards, Bond Bread, Bond Bread Premiums, and the re-prints HRT/RES cards, And I have some Exhibits cards, and Salutation Exhibits cards that match the photos.

The best information I have is that they are team issues/Player Picture Pack Photo issued through Stadiums. Thereby Berk Ross used photo packs to make his cards. Because many people have said they or someone in their family had acquired photos like I have right from the stadium or bought them from a dealer who said that’s what they were. So does anyone know what I have?

Member AustinMike provided these pictures of the 1956 Yankees Action Photo set. I do have some of them in my collection, Hank Bauer is one that I have, it is also a Berk Ross card. Notice the script or type style is the same on the Jackie Robinson photo and Hank Bauer, look to be the same. John

[Lucas00]

I found the original photo used for Reds BR. It was part of the Sporting News Collection. So an easily identifiable type 1 photo. I personally don't think your blank back photos with the names written on the front were used for the cards. But I do think they were some sort of issue.
99% of card used images have press markings or team markings (file dates, team copyrights, etc,) I'm only saying 99% and not 100 because anything is possible, but in my experience I would never buy a blank back photo thinking it was used for a card.

[Johnphotoman]

Here is my Reds photo. John

[TCMA]

This auction listing might help:

https://bid.loveofthegameauctions.co...e?itemid=31181

[Lucas00]

Originally Posted by Johnphotoman

Here is my Reds photo. John

Hi John, I have the original photo used for Reds 1949 bowman. It was taken by George Dorrill the cardinals team photographer with his stamp on the back. The name on the front is not on the original photo. Hope that helps somehow.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

We have a similar image with a black signature:



It's from an All-Star Photo Pack

[Johnphotoman]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

We have a similar image with a black signature:



It's from an All-Star Photo Pack

Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian- Scott Russell: Do you know when the All-Star Photo Pack was issued, (in what year) and how? That is one of the issues I come across, what year the photos were issued and how! Most photo packs I have seen are 6x9 or so, the photos I have are all 9x10. I do not see very many photos like the ones I have, and when I do, they are modern reprints. So far no one has been able to even tell me where the modern reprint comes from, or how the original photo was issued. I have seen photos like yours before, and cards that look like it, great photo. John.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

This particular one was the 1949 Photo Pack.

We have had white signature photos from the same era as yours which often corresponded to the bond bread photos. I'd have to dig around but I'll see if I can find them.

[Johnphotoman]

Great thank you, I do have some Bond Bread cards that do match the photos as you say, right down to the script name and style., an exact match. The square cut cards that we call Bond Bread came out circa 1940s and the Homogenized Bond Bread cards that used many of the same images as the square cut cards came out 1947. Many of the photos seem to be from the 1940s, take the Jackie Robinson photograph used to produce 1952 Berk Ross Baseball Card, the scoreboard says 1946, before Jackie’s rookie year of 1947. My question is was the photo around before they made the card in 1952, it had to be, with the name on it and all. Again look at the Bond Bread cards, they came out in 1940s-1947 and everything is a match. I have posted a few, if I get time I will try to post more photos and cards that match , it could help. John.

[Johnphotoman]

image of photo and cards that match:Vern Stephens. Notice the uniform is St. Louis Browns. That places the photo in 1941-1947, the baseball card W571 is circa 1940s. The other is a 1976 HRT/RES reprint.
Could this photo be from a photo pack from the St. Louis Browns. 1940s. John

[Johnphotoman]

The photo of Hank Bauer is a match for the baseball card 1952 Berk Ross-Hit Parade of champions, many people in the past told me the photo was from 1952. But still others say it from 1956, because of the Yankees action photo pack. We know that's not right if the Berk Ross card came out in 1952.

I started doing some digging into the uniforms and the uniforms proves the photo is from 1948. In 1948 the Yankees wore a black armband on the left sleeve, in honor of Babe Ruth. Therefore the photo is not an original photo pack, but the 1956 Yankees photo pack used older photos. John

[TCMA]

John, take a look at the auction listing I posted previously in this thread.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Johnphotoman]

Thank you, I have try, but for some reason I cannot get the page to come up, can you re-post. John

[TCMA]

Originally Posted by Johnphotoman

Thank you, I have try, but for some reason I cannot get the page to come up, can you re-post. John

Should work:

https://bid.loveofthegameauctions.co...e?itemid=31181


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Johnphotoman]

Originally Posted by TCMA

Should work:

https://bid.loveofthegameauctions.co...e?itemid=31181


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wow this is amazing: Thank you, they are "National Sports Photos, Inc." that I have- there is no doubt. This is a real game changer for sure. John

[Lucas00]

My fault, I completely forgot I posted this in a thread a while back. Would have answered the question much faster if I'd remembered. Aarons post shows the origin (which I didn't remember)

But now if somebody sees this post they will see the photo here.

[Johnphotoman]

This is amazing stuff, 40+ years of research into photos that have been in my family since 1965-1968... has now been solved. Thanks to members of net54baseball.com: TCMA-Andrew Aronstein and Lucas00 -Lüc@s Dëwėãšę.

Following TCMA's lead about an auction listing, it led me to Lucas00 post in “Anyone recognize this Walter Johnson?” Which he kindly re-posted above. TCMA post was about "Summer, 2023 Premier Auction- (Love of the Game Auctions.) Lot # 329: c.1940's Grover Cleveland Alexander, Type 2 News Service Photo. Here is what it said about the photo that caught my eye, and why I believe TCMA-Andrew Aronstein suggested the site to begin with.

“Mid-1920's image of Hall of Fame pitcher Grover Cleveland Alexander at the Cubs spring training facility on Catalina Island in California. Though the image hails from the 1920's this particular 6.5" x 8.5" print was developed during the 1940's and served as a "proof" for a company known as "National Sports Photos, Inc." National Sports Photos offered 8" x 10" glossy photo reproductions via mail order, complete with the athletes name added.” (Lot # 329: c.1940's Grover Cleveland Alexander (HOF) Type 2 News Service Photo (PSA/DNA).”

Notice the Grover Cleveland photo was a New Service Photo. Type 2. "New Service Photo" is essentially synonymous with a "wire photo" – it refers to a news photograph transmitted electronically, typically by a news agency, for use by media outlets. Which now appears to be "National Sports Photos, Inc."

Did some digging into (Love of the Game Auctions) and came across a Satchel Paige Wire photo Type 1- Lot #19574. I notice it is the same photo I have; only the athletes name is added in the photo. It is just like the Cleveland photo. Both photos were Wire Photos, then it seems National Sports Photos, Inc. reissued the photos with names on them circa 1940s.

Sometime back I discovered that the photo of Satchel Paige is of him at Yankee Stadium in uniform as a Black Yankees 1941. Photo is in Bettmann/Corbis archives history photos Collections. The Bettmann Archive is one of the most significant historical photo collections in the world, comprising more than 11 million negatives and prints, spanning the 19th and 20th centuries. The Bettmann Archive is housed in a dedicated preservation facility 220 feet underground in a limestone mine, in a state-of-the-art facility with a temperature-controlled environment which ensures that the collection is not only accessible via the expertise of its archivists today, but is also preserved for future generations to come. The Archive was purchased in1995 by Corbis, a photo agency owned by Bill Gates, and later sold to VCG which partners with Getty Images for preservation and distribution. John
First photo is: (Lot# 329: c.1940's Grover Cleveland Alexander (HOF) Type 2 News Service Photo. Second photo: Lot 19574. Third photo: is my photo.

[Johnphotoman]

Taking the information I have discovered on the Jackie Robinson photo…It could be only one of three known to exist. Question- should I have the photo…PSA-certified. I do not like the certification process for photos, but in this case who knows? The photo was taken in 1946, look at the scoreboard, and it was the one used to produce the 1952 Berk Ross baseball card, and there are some modern reprints that use the same image. Maybe I should ask this question on a different thread, what should I do? The problem is I have seen photos like the ones I have, (not the same) certified as type-1,2,and 3. In the case of Jackie Robinson photo the type could be 1 or 2. The truth is there is no way anyone can tell if the image was made within two years of it being taken. John

[Johnphotoman]

Originally Posted by Johnphotoman

Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian- Scott Russell: Do you know when the All-Star Photo Pack was issued, (in what year) and how? That is one of the issues I come across, what year the photos were issued and how! Most photo packs I have seen are 6x9 or so, the photos I have are all 9x10. I do not see very many photos like the ones I have, and when I do, they are modern reprints. So far no one has been able to even tell me where the modern reprint comes from, or how the original photo was issued. I have seen photos like yours before, and cards that look like it, great photo. John.

What was the classification on the photo? I cannot tell, was
it a Type 3? John

[Johnphotoman]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

This particular one was the 1949 Photo Pack.

We have had white signature photos from the same era as yours which often corresponded to the bond bread photos. I'd have to dig around but I'll see if I can find them.

What was the classification on the photo? I cannot tell, was
it a Type 3? John

[NiceDocter]

Here are the photos you asked for. All bought at the same time….. all blank backs. Glossy photo paper probably vintage 1950 or so I would guess….

[Johnphotoman]

You have some of the same photos I have… there are National Sports Photos, Inc, circa 1940s. National Sports Photos, Inc. produces many of the Bond Bread photos used on the cards. I hope this helps. John.

[jethrod3]

Originally Posted by NiceDocter

Here are the photos you asked for. All bought at the same time….. all blank backs. Glossy photo paper probably vintage 1950 or so I would guess….

Love the Reese photo! Wonder what he was thinking!