Questions on gold HOF plaque postcards

[dgo71]

I should apologize in advance for the lengthy post, but I want to provide as much info as I can....

I've always enjoyed collecting signed gold (or yellow) HOF plaque postcards. I would attempt the B&W ones as well if they weren't so expensive and, more importantly, so hard to find in authentic form.

I have always been under the impression that the George Weiss plaque was "impossible" to find signed even though he was inducted a year or so before his death. As I understand it, Weiss was hospitalized for the last few years of his life and did not even attend his own induction, so it is commonly accepted that he never signed his plaque. However, I recently came across this article, from 1998 or so. I included the link to the entire article but the specific parts of interest are in bold italics below:

http://www.psacard.com/articles/arti...tml?artid=2439

Including last year's hall of fame cards, it is feasible to have 130 autographed postcards. There are varying degrees of availability ranging from the extremely rare George Weiss (1EK469) card, to the overabundant Bob Feller (5DK714).

Does Weiss actually exist? Has anyone ever seen, or even heard of an authentic example?

Based on extensive studies, I believe that the plaques were initially offered to the public late in 1965. My theory is based upon the plaque numbers assigned by the Curteichcolor 3-D Natural Color Reproduction Company from 1965 through 1977. The exact date of issuance is unclear. It appears that during this time, the first plaques were not made available on Induction Day, which has been the case over the past two decades. Consequently, Paul Waner (5DK-772) who died on August 29, 1965 and Bill McKechnie (5DK-747) who passed on October 29, 1965 never signed their gold plaques even though they were present at the July, 1965 Induction Ceremonies.

I had never even considered the possibility of Waner and McKechnie existing on gold plaques. The explanation above makes sense, and I believe I remember reading somewhere that in the first few years of production the Hall was not as concerned with ensuring the latest inductees were available on induction day. That practice, I'm told, did not start until years later when the Hall realized they were missing out on a moneygrab opportunity. However, as Waner was inducted in 1952, and McKechnie in 1962 it does seem odd. The gold postcards were first produced in 1964, but I never heard that it wasn't until late 1965 that they were made available to the public. Does anyone know if this is accurate? It would certainly explain why two men who attended the '65 induction ceremony aren't found on the gold postcards. But, since it is 13-14 years after this article was written, I have the same question that I had about Weiss...has anyone seen or heard of authentic Waner or McKechnie signatures on gold postcards?

Any information at all is very much appreciated.

[JimStinson]

To address your question on signed George Weiss gold plaques specificially here is what I know. A few maybe even several have surfaced over the years , ALL were signed by his wife or caregiver. He was in ill health and almost bedridden.

A collector I used to know actually went to Weiss house and requested his autograph on the 3 or 4 plaques he brought. The wife or person who answered the door suggested he leave them and pick them up the next day.

Already suspecting Weiss was NOT signing them he somehow managed to convince her to let him in to actually speak to Weiss as he lived nearby and had met him before. He was surprised at how ill he was and asked if he would sign one of the plaques for him which he did in his presence IN-PERSON, but only one and asked that the others be left and he would sign them.

The Weiss signature he obtained looked nothing like George Weiss signature and certainly was not the signature he recieved on the others when he eventually picked them up which matched those that collectors had recieved prior and suspected they were ghost signed.

So its generally believed or at least I was always told there is exactly ONE authentic Weiss signed gold plaque in existence , The one that was signed that day. it was sold about 15 years ago to a private collector for a pretty penny and still resides in that collection. We speak often and the owner of the plaque believes as do I that it is the only known authentic example of a George Weiss signed Gold plaque. Hope this helps
______________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[dgo71]

That is a fascinating story, as always I appreciate the knowledge of the subject that you bring. I would imagine with Goslin front signed plaques selling in the $6-7K range, Weiss would easily be into five figures, should the collector ever choose to sell it. I would love to see scans of both the legit plaque, as well as the ones signed by his caregiver/wife for comparison. Thanks for your input Jim!

[RichardSimon]

The only signed gold plaks of Weiss that I have ever seen have been ghost signed.

[dgo71]

Thanks Richard! As for Waner and McKechnie, safe to assume they don't exist? Would either of you, or anyone, know if the gold plaques were in fact made available to the public for the first time in late 1965?

[RichardSimon]

Waner and McKechnie do not exist as far as I know.
While I have seen a few ghost signed Weiss plaks I have never seen a Waner or McKechnie plak with any signature on it.
I have always believed that the gold plaks became available in 1966, making it impossible for Waner or McKechnie to have signed them.

[dgo71]

That makes even more sense. McKechnie passed in October of '65, so surely if the plaques had been issued prior to that, you would think a forgery at the very least would have entered the market. Thanks again Richard!

[kerichar]

I was the one that uncovered the numbering system on the back of Gold Plaques, and I am convinved they were issued in the later part of 1965. I have a Ray Schalk plaque that is autographed and dated 1/1/66; given the signature date, it had to have been mailed in late 1965. I have never been able to determine why there is no McKechnie or Waner. McKechnie died about one month after attneding 1965 induction ceremonies, so it is clear the "new" plaques were not issued during induction ceremonies. Perhaps they came out after McKechnie death in August and before Waner died in October. Maybe there are no Waners becuase he was too ill to sign any. I just do not know I asked the Hall when the "new" plaques were issued, but no one there knows.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by kerichar

I was the one that uncovered the numbering system on the back of Gold Plaques, and I am convinved they were issued in the later part of 1965. I have a Ray Schalk plaque that is autographed and dated 1/1/66; given the signature date, it had to have been mailed in late 1965. I have never been able to determine why there is no McKechnie or Waner. McKechnie died about one month after attneding 1965 induction ceremonies, so it is clear the "new" plaques were not issued during induction ceremonies. Perhaps they came out after McKechnie death in August and before Waner died in October. Maybe there are no Waners becuase he was too ill to sign any. I just do not know I asked the Hall when the "new" plaques were issued, but no one there knows.

Keri - I would love to see a scan of that Schalk plak for my exemplar files.
Thanks very much.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by dgo71

That makes even more sense. McKechnie passed in October of '65, so surely if the plaques had been issued prior to that, you would think a forgery at the very least would have entered the market. Thanks again Richard!

No opportunity would pass the forgers by. After this thread, I would not be surprised to see a discovery of these two plaks coming out of a Southern state .

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

No opportunity would pass the forgers by. After this thread, I would not be surprised to see a discovery of these two plaks coming out of a Southern state .

Doh! I certainly hope not!

[sicollector1954]

I would be curious to confirm the fact that Weiss did not attend his own induction as I sold a HOF autographed baseball through Heritage about 6 months ago. It had a PSA letter with it and also a George Weiss sig on it. Only the Campanella was determined to be secretarial or signed by his wife if I remember.

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by sicollector1954

I would be curious to confirm the fact that Weiss did not attend his own induction

The HOF website has a "Roll Call" section that pops open this PDF detailing every HOFer to attend each of the the ceremonies. Weiss was inducted in 1971 and passed in 1972. You can see his name is not listed here for either ceremony.

http://baseballhall.org/sites/defaul...ceremonies.pdf

That's not to say that someone didn't have Weiss sign the ball prior to his induction I suppose.

[sicollector1954]

Interesting to say the least. Baseball was in the October 25-27 Heritage auction. Lot # 82003 and on the 5th pic down if you go to the archive items--you can see the Weiss sig. I always thought it was a great ball to have since he could have only supposedly signed that 1 year. I do recall seeing one other a few years ago also with his sig on it but maybe it is indeed not his signature! Thanks

[kerichar]

Richard, I'l send a copy in the next couple of days.

Kerichar

[WizardofOz1982]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

No opportunity would pass the forgers by. After this thread, I would not be surprised to see a discovery of these two plaks coming out of a Southern state .

This one didn't come out of a Southern state, at least by the provenance I have for it. Given the tight signing window I had my doubts about it but it was in a lot of 70 or so other plaques that I'm without doubt on the great majority of due to familiarity. I'm in no way trying to say this is legit because I don't know his signature at all but I would think if someone forged one they would have forged more than one. Perhaps it was just some kid filling in signatures on cards for a set. I don't know.

[dgo71]

Very interesting. I know he most often signed "W B McKechnie", although he did on occasion sign "Bill". I'm not overly familiar with that version of his signature. I'm not loving some of the letter formations on this one, particularly the "B" and "M", but I don't feel I'm knowledgeable enough to say if it is real or not. If authentic it is definitely quite rare! Thanks for posting the image!

[Smanzari]

I collected these Heavily and ran a website on them for a number of years (HOFPlaques.com - no longer around). I think I have a picture of a/the Weiss (I actually heard there were 2 authentic ones, both collectors doing the same as Jim described, above, and both only leaving with 1), as well as some other next to impossible ones. The issue is they're on another comp - I will see if I remember to recover them/share

[theshleps]

McKechnie does not look real
If anyone has a Campy or a Goslin- I would love to purchase

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

There should be more Campys out there than there are. In spite of the steep price to have him sign, there were even more plaque collectors in his lifetime than there are today. It never made any sense.

[theshleps]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

There should be more Campys out there than there are. In spite of the steep price to have him sign, there were even more plaque collectors in his lifetime than there are today. It never made any sense.

I got this in a Hunt auction with a sticker by Harlan Werners company sports placement service. It looks way off but they did represent him. Any opinions?Zg Campanella 1991 sports placement sevices werner signing.jpg