The Worst Pitchers With Long Careers

[packs]

Who are some of the absolute worst pitchers who still managed to pitch a ton of games over a long period of time?

I fell down a hole for the 2001 World Series when the Yankees got beat by the Diamondbacks and saw Mike Morgan on the Diamondbacks roster. This guy spent 19 seasons as a starter and only had a winning record in 3 of them. One of those winnings seasons he went 13-10 with 6.24 ERA. He pitched more than 2700 innings and started over 400 games with a career record of 141-186 with a 97 ERA+.

Longevity from someone like that is very impressive. He wasn't even left handed.

[Cliff Bowman]

I don't know if it's fair to call him a bad pitcher but I'm pretty sure Bobo Newsom is the only pitcher with at least 200 wins and have a losing record. He had seasons of 16-20, 11-18, 12-20, 13-19, 11-17, and 8-20.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Edwin Jackson and his career 4.78 ERA come to mind. 17 seasons and I think he might still hold the record for most franchises played for (14).

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

I don't know if it's fair to call him a bad pitcher but I'm pretty sure Bobo Newsom is the only pitcher with at least 200 wins and have a losing record. He had seasons of 16-20, 11-18, 12-20, 13-19, 11-17, and 8-20.

Bob Friend falls 3 wins short of 200, but he and Bobo are the two guys who immediately come to mind for 'good pitchers with losing records'. 107 ERA+ is better than Jim Kaat, but luck wasn't with them.




Jamie Moyer played forever and is the worst pitcher with 250 wins.

Jerry Reuss was exactly league average over 22 years, which doesn't make him bad but 22 years and league average is a very long career.

LaTroy Hawkins lasted 21 years as a subpar to mediocre reliever. He has to be up there. 106 ERA+ is pretty weak for a 1 inning relief pitcher

[NiceDocter]

Found some guy who pitched 22 years and lost 316 games!!! Man what a loser! ooops it was Cy Young who also won 511....... never mind LOL

[cgjackson222]

Terry Mulholland pitched over 2,500 inning and well into his 40s, but only had a career ERA of 4.41 (ERA+ of 93) and had a losing record of 124-142 with only 11.1 WAR.

He had half a dozen negative WAR years, including -2.8 in 1995.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by G1911

Bob Friend falls 3 wins short of 200, but he and Bobo are the two guys who immediately come to mind for 'good pitchers with losing records'. 107 ERA+ is better than Jim Kaat, but luck wasn't with them.




Jamie Moyer played forever and is the worst pitcher with 250 wins.

Jerry Reuss was exactly league average over 22 years, which doesn't make him bad but 22 years and league average is a very long career.

LaTroy Hawkins lasted 21 years as a subpar to mediocre reliever. He has to be up there. 106 ERA+ is pretty weak for a 1 inning relief pitcher

Thing about guys like Reuss and Moyer is that there are a number of very good years and maybe even one or two great years mixed in. It's basically the front and back ends of their careers that makes their careers look "League Average" in their prime they were both All-Stars and occasional Cy Young Candidates.

[stlcardsfan]

Jose Deleon pitiched 13 seasons and 1,900 innings. Not quite as much as some of the others mentioned.

Went 86-119 and twice lost 19 games in a season. Respectable career ERA of 3.76 and 102 ERA+.

Went 7-19 for the Cardinals in 1990. I remember people saying "you have to be a pretty good pitcher to lose 19 games". Huh?

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by stlcardsfan

Jose Deleon pitiched 13 seasons and 1,900 innings. Not quite as much as some of the others mentioned.

Went 86-119 and twice lost 19 games in a season. Respectable career ERA of 3.76 and 102 ERA+.

Went 7-19 for the Cardinals in 1990. I remember people saying "you have to be a pretty good pitcher to lose 19 games". Huh?

This quote belongs to Bill James

“It takes a pretty good pitcher to lose 20 games” — Bill James

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by G1911

Bob Friend falls 3 wins short of 200, but he and Bobo are the two guys who immediately come to mind for 'good pitchers with losing records'. 107 ERA+ is better than Jim Kaat, but luck wasn't with them.




Jamie Moyer played forever and is the worst pitcher with 250 wins.

Jerry Reuss was exactly league average over 22 years, which doesn't make him bad but 22 years and league average is a very long career.

LaTroy Hawkins lasted 21 years as a subpar to mediocre reliever. He has to be up there. 106 ERA+ is pretty weak for a 1 inning relief pitcher

Moyer's record is 269-209 with an ERA+ of 103 so a little better than league average. Being the worst pitcher with 250 wins is like being the poorest of all the billionaires - still not a bad place to be.

[packs]

He didn't have a long career but seems like he still had a much longer career than his production warranted.

Jaret Wright pitched for 11 seasons and started 171 games going 68-60. He did not reach 1,000 innings and finished his career with an ERA+ of 90 and a career ERA of 5.09.

What is especially impressive about his career is that there was a point when teams decided he was not a good starter. In 2003, Wright pitched in 50 games and didn't make a single start. He went 2-5 with a 7.35 ERA.

Somehow, the next season he went back into the rotation and actually had the best season of his career.

He was also given a surprisingly long leash in the postseason despite being universally terrible: 3-6 with a 7.07 ERA over 56 innings.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Thing about guys like Reuss and Moyer is that there are a number of very good years and maybe even one or two great years mixed in. It's basically the front and back ends of their careers that makes their careers look "League Average" in their prime they were both All-Stars and occasional Cy Young Candidates.

Of course, every pitcher with 2 or more seasons looks better if you use his best year/years. As to the question of the worst pitcher with abnormally long careers, these guys are top candidates. Nobody gets to 20 years without a year they were better than league or an all-star.

[StraightRaceCards]

Originally Posted by jayshum

Moyer's record is 269-209 with an ERA+ of 103 so a little better than league average. Being the worst pitcher with 250 wins is like being the poorest of all the billionaires - still not a bad place to be.

+1

I first thought Moyer too, but 269 wins is nothing to scoff about. He had to of been doing something right!

[rats60]

I am not sure what a long career means, but Jordan Lyles has pitched over 1500 innings in 14 seasons and went 72-107 with a 5.22 ERA, ERA+ of 81 and a WAR of negative 2.3. At 34 years old it is possible another team will give him a chance to eat innings and accumulate more negative WAR.

[John1941]

Originally Posted by stlcardsfan

Jose Deleon pitiched 13 seasons and 1,900 innings. Not quite as much as some of the others mentioned.

Went 86-119 and twice lost 19 games in a season. Respectable career ERA of 3.76 and 102 ERA+.

Went 7-19 for the Cardinals in 1990. I remember people saying "you have to be a pretty good pitcher to lose 19 games". Huh?

Getting no run support doesn't make you a bad pitcher.

And pitchers who lose 20 games are frequently the best pitcher on a bad team - they lose so many because they pitch so much for a team with terrible offense. Take Hall of Famer Red Ruffing - he lost 25 and 22 games for the Red Sox in 1928 and 1929 before being traded to the Yankees. Paul Derringer lost 27 and 21 games in 1933 and 1934 while being an above average pitcher - he went on to win 20 games four times.

Some twenty win losers are guys like Jack Nabors going 1-20 for the Philadelphia Athletics in 1916; but I think if you studied it, more 20 game losers would be good pitchers than bad.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by John1941

Getting no run support doesn't make you a bad pitcher.

And pitchers who lose 20 games are frequently the best pitcher on a bad team - they lose so many because they pitch so much for a team with terrible offense. Take Hall of Famer Red Ruffing - he lost 25 and 22 games for the Red Sox in 1928 and 1929 before being traded to the Yankees. Paul Derringer lost 27 and 21 games in 1933 and 1934 while being an above average pitcher - he went on to win 20 games four times.

Some twenty win losers are guys like Jack Nabors going 1-20 for the Philadelphia Athletics in 1916; but I think if you studied it, more 20 game losers would be good pitchers than bad.

One of my favorite hard luck seasons is when Will White won 18 games and lost 42 - but posted a 2.14 ERA, 114 ERA+. White, of course, was an excellent pitcher but bad luck and a bad offense led to one of the worst W-L seasons in MLB history. Jim McCormick had a similar season.

[KJA]

Edwin Jackson, 17 years with a 4.78 ERA and an 8.9 WAR, ERA+ of 88

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by KJA

Edwin Jackson, 17 years with a 4.78 ERA and an 8.9 WAR, ERA+ of 88

I mentioned him earlier. He definitely deserves a mention!

[packs]

Jeff Suppan was another one. He managed to pitch 17 seasons and started nearly all the games he appeared in, more than 400 games and 2,500 innings.

He compiled a losing record of 140-146 with a 4.70 ERA (!) and a career ERA+ of 97.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

Terry Mulholland pitched over 2,500 inning and well into his 40s, but only had a career ERA of 4.41 (ERA+ of 93) and had a losing record of 124-142 with only 11.1 WAR.

He had half a dozen negative WAR years, including -2.8 in 1995.

He’s who I first thought of. Very Edwin Jackson like career, but like 600+ more innings.

Like Jackson, also threw a No-Hitter and also compiled most of his positive WAR in a 3-4 consecutive year span, showcasing his “potential”.

I remember he got traded to the Yankees in the mid 90’s on the back of his “serviceable” streak, and immediately imploded to a 6+ ERA season. Somehow he stuck around for like another 13 years after that….LOL.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

I mentioned him earlier. He definitely deserves a mention!

I believe Jackson is tied with Rich Hill for the most franchise changes in a career (15). Or if the 14 figure above is accurate, Hill surpassed him. Hill, anyhow, had multiple stints with multiple teams so we could be talking apples and oranges as between number of franchises and franchise changes.

[KJA]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

I mentioned him earlier. He definitely deserves a mention!

During the second half of his career I was always surprised to see him show up on a new team

[JollyElm]

To illustrate how reading a random thread piques your interest and sends you down a rabbit hole, I found this:

"In 1993, Jose Canseco of the Texas Rangers pitched one inning against the Boston Red Sox, conceding two hits, three walks, and three earned runs before injuring his arm; the resulting Tommy John surgery ended his season."

He had a long career and apparently was a terrible pitcher.

[Lucas00]

Bobo Newsom pitched in over 600 games with a W/L of 211-222, 3.98 ERA. Definitely not terrible but really not great to have so many losses.