Ebay Authentication is a Comical JOKE.

[danmckee]

Maybe it is just me but really? A scratch in the case and the buyer doesn't even get to make a decision on the card? How FKG STUPID!

[BioCRN]

I don't mind the auth program, but this one is top level stupid.

As an aside, Novus #2 is great for getting out most scratches on cases.

[danmckee]

Thanks for the heads up on the Novus #2, I am so old I didn't remember seeing any scratches .

[oldjudge]

LOL, now they are grading your cases. What a great business model. Perhaps they can start a case registry.

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

LOL, now they are grading your cases. What a great business model. Perhaps they can start a case registry.

Ok Jay that's damn funny! I needed that! HA! TY my friend!

[Leon]

That's crazy, Dan.
Yeap, next big thing will be grading the cases the cards are in. Someone will corner the market on it. I used some Novus today, btw...Do I have an altered case now, so it can only be AUT?

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by Leon

That's crazy, Dan.
Yeap, next big thing will be grading the cases the cards are in. Someone will corner the market on it. I used some Novus today, btw...Do I have an altered case now, so it can only be AUT?

U Sinner! Altered your case! This stuff is MADNESS!

[Donscards]

Originally Posted by danmckee

Thanks for the heads up on the Novus #2, I am so old I didn't remember seeing any scratches .

Dan I had the same thing happen to me on a scratched case--they send it back to me--the buyer wanted the card and we did a private deal circumventing ebay--saved us both money--but like you say, now we have to look at the holder better.

[ASF123]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

LOL, now they are grading your cases. What a great business model. Perhaps they can start a case registry.

…which will of course necessitate meta-slabs to protect your slabs. I smell an opportunity! Who wants to get in on the ground floor with me?

[BioCRN]

They do make cell-phone-case-like "Slab bumpers" that surrounds the slab with a thick rubber frame.

There's also magnetic closing totally encased slab holders if you want some overkill with your overkill.

[JimC]

As an aside - - - nice Demaree Die Cut!

[ASF123]

Originally Posted by BioCRN

There's also magnetic closing totally encased slab holders if you want some overkill with your overkill.

OK, but what protects *those* from scratches??

[effe]

Similar thing happened to me recently. What p*ssed me off more that my card being rejected for a tiny scratch was that they sent my $800 card back to me in a bubble mailer with no protection what so ever. I sent it between two pieces of cardboard, wrapped in bubble wrap and shipped it in a box. They couldn't be troubled to even ship it back to me reusing my shipping materials.

The buyer still wanted the card so I relisted it in the "other memorabilia" section with a title relist for buyer's name.

[BioCRN]

Originally Posted by ASF123

OK, but what protects *those* from scratches??

You get really good at truly appreciating a card when it's slabbed then further wrapped in an inch of bubble wrap.

[danmckee]

Guys! I LOVE IT! Most I have chuckled in a long time! I truly appreciate all of the replies. Bunch of Good People on here! Dan

[rjackson44]

unreal

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

What bothers me is that you're being held to task by some absolute know-nothing. Baseball cards mirroring today's world climate.

[gregndodgers]

Prior to becoming a PSA grader, the authenticator here was a novel editor or water slide tester. Now that grader has real power. Some have to “justify their job” by rejecting a card every now and then. Otherwise, their job is not necessary.

[gnaz01]

Originally Posted by danmckee

Guys! I LOVE IT! Most I have chuckled in a long time! I truly appreciate all of the replies. Bunch of Good People on here! Dan

eBay obviously has no idea who Big Dan is and what he is capable of........

[jchcollins]

Interesting. Maybe if this continues to happen, more sellers will be encouraged to invest in sleeves for slabs. Always bugs the hell out of me when I get one in the mail that's not in at least some sort of sleeve...

I've never heard of this happening with a graded card, though I generally shy away from selling something raw that is expensive enough to warrant authentication on eBay, because I'd be scared to actually include my thoughts on condition, lest the "authenticator" who has been on the job for less than two weeks doesn't know the difference between EX and EX-MT on vintage cardboard.

I've always thought that this part of it is a huge disservice to collectors - we are teaching those new to the hobby that you are better off to rely on the TPG's over and above trying to learn anything about how to actually grade cards yourself. Oy.

[CardPadre]

Disclose and show scratches on your slabs. If you get one sent back because you didn’t, tough shit for you…do better.

Don’t know why everyone is kissing your ass, you obviously had a shitty slab and didn’t represent it accurately.

[BioCRN]

Originally Posted by CardPadre

Disclose and show scratches on your slabs. If you get one sent back because you didn’t, tough shit for you…do better.

Don’t know why everyone is kissing your ass, you obviously had a shitty slab and didn’t represent it accurately.

Scratched slabs are rather normal and are mostly accepted by the hobby as common from normal handling.

This isn't some weird "old hobbyist" view or something like that.

Slabs travel, cross hands, etc. In the early days of grading there weren't even soft-sleeve protectors.

A $5-$8 bottle of various scratch/polish solutions can refresh many dozens of slabs. Whether you think that should be something you should do or not, there is a rather easy and cost effective remedy on the buyer's end.

[gnaz01]

Originally Posted by cardpadre

disclose and show scratches on your slabs. If you get one sent back because you didn’t, tough shit for you…do better.

Don’t know why everyone is kissing your ass, you obviously had a shitty slab and didn’t represent it accurately.

Wow!! What a @ss response!!!

[jbsports33]

Just crazy, the case is there to protect the card! I have had buyers give me back cards for issues with the case at shows and on eBay. This is only a recent trend, years back we did not have this issue. Now I have had to spend money on more plastic to protect the case, so we have happy buyers.

[CardPadre]

Originally Posted by BioCRN

Scratched slabs are rather normal and are mostly accepted by the hobby as common from normal handling.

This isn't some weird "old hobbyist" view or something like that.

Slabs travel, cross hands, etc. In the early days of grading there weren't even soft-sleeve protectors.

A $5-$8 bottle of various scratch/polish solutions can refresh many dozens of slabs. Whether you think that should be something you should do or not, there is a rather easy and cost effective remedy on the buyer's end.

People sure as shit don’t want to be surprised by them because someone doesn’t know how to image their item or describe them.

So how about everyone do the bare minimum of showing/describing the condition of what you’re selling and don’t act like an entitled baby when you get kickback for not doing so?

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by CardPadre

Don’t know why everyone is kissing your ass, you obviously had a shitty slab and didn’t represent it accurately.

Maybe because the view of most collectors is that it's the condition of the card that's the main issue with grading and in authentication / ebay verification, not the holder?

I get your point, scratches on slabs drive me nuts too. But to me ebay just outright rejecting it is a bit much. Maybe put another step in the process to alert the buyer hey - the slab is scratched, but the card checks out. Do you still want it? Then give the buyer (who is likely pissed at this point as well...) the option instead of making such a final decision.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by jbsports33

Just crazy, the case is there to protect the card! I have had buyers give me back cards for issues with the case at shows and on eBay.

To me it's about the card. I've been known to bust a nice card out of a crappy holder if I was later unhappy with scratches, or other damage.

[CardPadre]

Originally Posted by gnaz01

Wow!! What a @ss response!!!

I feel like I’m eavesdropping on a meeting of the Entitled Princesses Club. As an apparent member, you are oblivious to how ridiculous it really is.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by CardPadre

I feel like I’m eavesdropping on a meeting of the Entitled Princesses Club. As an apparent member, you are oblivious to how ridiculous it really is.

It's a pretty straightforward discussion. Not sure I understand the need for you to be so dickish in sharing your opinion either. I'm sure it's already a lesson learned for the OP.

[CardPadre]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

It's a pretty straightforward discussion. Not sure I understand the need for you to be so dickish in sharing your opinion either. I'm sure it's already a lesson learned for the OP.

It actually comes across as a discussion from an alternate reality where the OP was horribly wronged by the authenticity guarantee and every responder feels the need to blindly validate him instead of pointing out what actually happened.

[jp1216]

Looked at the images on the eBay listing. They were high enough resolution to see imperfections on the slab. The front looks fine to me and only a couple small scratches on the back. I've seen much, much worse. I'm surprised it was 'rejected' but glad you and the buyer worked it out.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/122579220930

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by jp1216

Looked at the images on the eBay listing. They were high enough resolution to see imperfections on the slab. The front looks fine to me and only a couple small scratches on the back. I've seen much, much worse. I'm surprised it was 'rejected' but glad you and the buyer worked it out.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/122579220930

To me, the bigger issue here is that ebay is likely very inconsistent on how this rule is or is not applied across the board. I'm pretty sure that not every slab with a noticeable scratch is rejected the same as if the card were fake. To me this goes back to the ancient problem heading of ebay not ever caring to be category experts. We don't know, so we will farm out the question to someone else. And when they do this, the results are inevitably inconsistent.

[CardPadre]

Originally Posted by jp1216

Looked at the images on the eBay listing. They were high enough resolution to see imperfections on the slab. The front looks fine to me and only a couple small scratches on the back. I've seen much, much worse. I'm surprised it was 'rejected' but glad you and the buyer worked it out.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/122579220930

This…is…the…actual….problem. It has damage that doesn’t show in the listing.

The slab looks like it only suffers from minor issues in the images. It was deemed to have “significant” damage/scratching by the authenticator that was not apparent in the images.

That slab is very old and very large. Really tough to protect it from contact all those years unless it was the absolute treasure of your collection.

[jp1216]

Originally Posted by CardPadre

It has damage that doesn’t show in the listing.

You know this for a fact?

[CardPadre]

Originally Posted by jp1216

You know this for a fact?

I will say I don’t “know it”, but…I guarantee it.

You have to sheen plastics like that at an angle under light to see most surface issues. A straight on view will not show the totality of it.

[jp1216]

I did notice the card is slightly outside of the frame when zoomed in. That could have been the issue too. I don't guarantee it, however.

[maniac_73]

They should at least give you a choice whether to keep it or return it.

[JollyElm]

Not sure if it adds anything to the conversation or actually shows the culprits, but I did take this pic in Dan's basement a while back when he had me over for tea...

1934DemareeDieCut160GrimmMICE.jpg

[Exhibitman]

The program is a mixed bag. I like the idea, especially with raw cards, both, as a buyer and a seller. I recently purchased a rare/expensive card from Argentina (no eBay auth. program) and believe me, i sweated whether the card would be good (it was). So the program alleviates some of that anxiety for buyers. I also (usually) like it as a seller because it chops the legs out of buyer's remorse returns and transportation mishap returns from the authenticator to the buyer. On the whole, i think it is a positive. The screw-ups are basically what Dan experienced with the holder condition or what I recently experienced, which was a 'not a card' rejection even though SGC grades the damn card.

They could fix most of the issues by simply allowing the buyer to decide if he or she wants the card despite the alleged issue before sending it back.

Or just put "set break" in the listing and bypass the program entirely. Or throw in a common and list it as two cards.

As for the bitch-slap battle over whether this is worth comment, yeah, it is. Dan wasn't selling a cranberry sparkle shiny crap card that the buyer could just buy elsewhere, it was a tough card, and the deal interference w/o buyer input is frustrating as heck.

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by CardPadre

Disclose and show scratches on your slabs. If you get one sent back because you didn’t, tough shit for you…do better.

Don’t know why everyone is kissing your ass, you obviously had a shitty slab and didn’t represent it accurately.

No I didn't see it, actually wouldn't even think to look for it, and thanks for the kind words whoever you are......

And I collect baseball cards, not plastic slabs so who cares?

And the buyer obviously collects cards too as he still bought it directly from me.

Thanks again for your fair insight.

Dan Mckee

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

The program is a mixed bag. I like the idea, especially with raw cards, both, as a buyer and a seller. I recently purchased a rare/expensive card from Argentina (no eBay auth. program) and believe me, i sweated whether the card would be good (it was). So the program alleviates some of that anxiety for buyers. I also (usually) like it as a seller because it chops the legs out of buyer's remorse returns and transportation mishap returns from the authenticator to the buyer. On the whole, i think it is a positive. The screw-ups are basically what Dan experienced with the holder condition or what I recently experienced, which was a 'not a card' rejection even though SGC grades the damn card.

They could fix most of the issues by simply allowing the buyer to decide if he or she wants the card despite the alleged issue before sending it back.

Or just put "set break" in the listing and bypass the program entirely. Or throw in a common and list it as two cards.

As for the bitch-slap battle over whether this is worth comment, yeah, it is. Dan wasn't selling a cranberry sparkle shiny crap card that the buyer could just buy elsewhere, it was a tough card, and the deal interference w/o buyer input is frustrating as heck.

Thanks Adam, my thoughts exactly! Let the freggin buyer decide for heaven's sake......

[packs]

I had a recent transaction cancelled because of the authenticity program as well. They said my card had a surface scratch. My description of the card was that it was in near mint condition. This was a modern card that went from pack to holder and I honestly didn't see any scratches on the card when I put it up for sale.

I had no issue with them returning it to me. What I did find really annoying and what did agitate me about the process was that eBay claimed they sent detailed photos of my card to the buyer and the buyer decided not to purchase.

I have been in the buyer's position and had a transaction I purchased cancelled due to the program. eBay most certainly did not make any attempt to contact me as the buyer to see if I still wanted the card, and they definitely didn't take the time to take their own photos and send them to me to review. I knew that never happened and I don't understand why they told me it did.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Who cares about a scratched slab? Unless it's some drastic box cutter or screwdriver gouge, then honestly, get over it. The slab is just housing what actually matters.

Well, I'm a bit biased, as I could care less about the slab even if it was pristine. Those things are clunky and just get in the way. There's nothing less satisfying than multiplying the space and weight of your collection 30 fold.

[CardPadre]

Look, to everyone who says they don't care about scratches on their slabs, you are full of beans (and sh!t).

If you like slabs on your cards, you don't like scratches on your slabs. Go make a poll asking collectors here what they think and we'll expose what absolute nonsense that is.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

Maybe because the view of most collectors is that it's the condition of the card that's the main issue with grading and in authentication / ebay verification, not the holder?

I get your point, scratches on slabs drive me nuts too. But to me ebay just outright rejecting it is a bit much. Maybe put another step in the process to alert the buyer hey - the slab is scratched, but the card checks out. Do you still want it? Then give the buyer (who is likely pissed at this point as well...) the option instead of making such a final decision.

John, the main point of Ebay's authentication program for graded cards, probably 99% of it, is just to make sure the card they get from the seller is the same as the listing.

There used to be a fair amount of scammers who would sell a PSA 5 Mantle and deliver instead a graded Greg Jeffries card, or an empty box. There were also a few buyers who would actually get a PSA 5 Mantle from a legitimate seller, but claim they got an empty box.

Ebay's resolution service was very busy trying to sort through these claims. It can be difficult in some cases to decide who is lying. Since Ebay began the authentication program, most of these issues have gone away. If a seller sends that Greg Jeffries card to PSA, it gets sent back and nobody hears about it. But I suspect that is a rare occurrence anymore.

Now, I suspect the PSA graders doing the authentication for Ebay have very little to do when they get a graded card, so maybe this one grader looked at Dan's case a little too closely.

There was also I think a big story a couple years ago about someone putting cards in fake PSA flips and selling them. Do you remember that one? I'm not sure if that was an Ebay issue or not, my recollection is they were being sold at a card show.

As for raw cards, I doubt your raw EX-MT cards would be rejected, as long as they weren't creased or heavily worn. I think on the raw side PSA is mostly checking to see if the card is authentic, is the same one as shown in the listing and is described fairly.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

John, the main point of Ebay's authentication program for graded cards, probably 99% of it, is just to make sure the card they get from the seller is the same as the listing.

There used to be a fair amount of scammers who would sell a PSA 5 Mantle and deliver instead a graded Greg Jeffries card, or an empty box. There were also a few buyers who would actually get a PSA 5 Mantle from a legitimate seller, but claim they got an empty box.

Ebay's resolution service was very busy trying to sort through these claims. It can be difficult in some cases to decide who is lying. Since Ebay began the authentication program, most of these issues have gone away. If a seller sends that Greg Jeffries card to PSA, it gets sent back and nobody hears about it. But I suspect that is a rare occurrence anymore.

Now, I suspect the PSA graders doing the authentication for Ebay have very little to do when they get a graded card, so maybe this one grader looked at Dan's case a little too closely.

There was also I think a big story a couple years ago about someone putting cards in fake PSA flips and selling them. Do you remember that one? I'm not sure if that was an Ebay issue or not, my recollection is they were being sold at a card show.

As for raw cards, I doubt your raw EX-MT cards would be rejected, as long as they weren't creased or heavily worn. I think on the raw side PSA is mostly checking to see if the card is authentic, is the same one as shown in the listing and is described fairly.

Thanks Al. I'm aware of what the point of the program is.

I have not tried out the authentication experience with raw cards as a seller, but had heard some horror stories of ostensibly inexperienced authenticators issuing rejections based on holding raw sellers to super critical standards. My point in discussing the raw was that I think it's not good if because of such experiences, raw sellers are more likely to disclose less (i.e. not list a condition range at all...) on such listings.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

Thanks Al. I'm aware of what the point of the program is.

I have not tried out the authentication experience with raw cards as a seller, but had heard some horror stories of ostensibly inexperienced authenticators issuing rejections based on holding raw sellers to super critical standards. My point in discussing the raw was that I think it's not good if because of such experiences, raw sellers are more likely to disclose less (i.e. not list a condition range at all...) on such listings.

When you put up a card for sale on Ebay, you need to list the condition as either:

Near mint or better: Comparable to a fresh pack
Excellent: Has clearly visible signs of wear
Very good: Has moderate-to-heavy damage all over
Poor: Is extremely worn and displays flaws all over

When you sell a card over $250, it goes to PSA for review. I imagine their review standards are comparable to their grading standards, but with a bit more tolerance. For instance, if you pop a PSA 4 out of its slab and sell it on Ebay as Excellent, I bet it would pass the review.

On the other hand, if you list a card as Near Mint and it has surface issues, be prepared for it to be rejected.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

When you put up a card for sale on Ebay, you need to list the condition as either:

Near mint or better: Comparable to a fresh pack
Excellent: Has clearly visible signs of wear
Very good: Has moderate-to-heavy damage all over
Poor: Is extremely worn and displays flaws all over

This is not the same thing as listing a card condition like NM or EX or VG, however. There are radio buttons to do this on ebay and they more or less insinuate what you are saying. But as a card person, "Excellent" in their definition here doesn't have much to do with card condition. This is my problem with the system. It's not clear from eBay's perspective what is intended here really - as the same condition choices exist for electronics as they do sports cards.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by packs

I have been in the buyer's position and had a transaction I purchased cancelled due to the program. eBay most certainly did not make any attempt to contact me as the buyer to see if I still wanted the card, and they definitely didn't take the time to take their own photos and send them to me to review. I knew that never happened and I don't understand why they told me it did.

I've twice been a buyer when there were problems identified during the AG process.

In both situations, I was emailed and contacted over the eBay app, with a description of the issue, and detailed photos identifying the issue that they identified. They then asked me to decide whether I still wanted the item, or whether I wanted to cancel the transaction. In both cases, I still wanted the item.

So it does happen this way, although it sounds like it doesn't happen every time.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

There was also I think a big story a couple years ago about someone putting cards in fake PSA flips and selling them. Do you remember that one? I'm not sure if that was an Ebay issue or not, my recollection is they were being sold at a card show.

I think there's also an element where people will crack out a card very carefully, replace it with a lesser grade card, and reseal the slab. So you get a piece that on casual inspection looks like it's legit, but it's actually been replaced with a lower grade card.

My understanding is that one of the primary points of inspecting the slabs through the AG program is to attempt to catch these bad actors.

If I remember correctly, Adam recently had a buddy who bought a slab at a show that had undergone just such manipulation, and Adam was able to flag it for his buddy, who was able to then track down the seller while still at the show and cancel the transaction. Sort of Adam's own little AG process that bailed out his buddy from getting hoodwinked.