Kickers and Closers and the HOF

[JollyElm]

tomdempseyfieldgoal.jpeg


With Billy Wagner, a relief pitcher, being elected to Cooperstown, the usual (for lack of a better word) anger of the selection begins to start boiling over.

I have no opinion regarding Wagner, and most of us can see both sides of the argument. The same pros and cons were stated about Mariano Rivera and every other closer before and after him.

But my take on it is this. Closers are a part of the game, so if you did the job well enough (the definition of which is obviously open to debate) for enshrinement, then you are deserving.

There seems to be a clear parallel with the NFL Hall of Fame and it's almost complete dismissal of place kickers and punters. They fill an important position in the game (as a Bills fan, do I really need to explain how great it would've been for us if we had a Vinatieri-esque kicker?), so even though they are not subject to the physical punishment of the first three downs - which seems to many to be the biggest reason they are disregarded, because they are a distinctly 'separate' part of the actual on-field game - the voters really should add more of these guys, based on the role they play in each and every game.

Like closers, you can't just ignore the entire position. Thoughts?

[BioCRN]

Saves are a BS stat. Protecting 3 runs leads? Not impressive. Protecting 2 run leads? Not exactly extraordinary stuff to get that done.

Protecting the game from getting tied or the loss with a single run on the line? Get your best arm(s) out there.

That said, some guys go out there to pull their 1 inning and do it extremely well for almost their entire career.

Rivera is the most epic one-inning guy of all time. Wagner is a hell of a one-inning guy.

It's not like there's a few dozen of these guys over the past 50 years of the closer as we know it. Many of these guys shine bright over a small chunk of time and burn out.

[Gorditadogg]

Home runs are a BS stat. Pulling a ball down the line 325 feet? Not impressive. Teeing off in the ninth inning in a blowout game against the other team's 12th pitcher? Not exactly extraordinary stuff there.

If it's against a future hall of famer or the game is within 1-2 runs, fine. Otherwise, I don't want to hear about it.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[perezfan]

Kickers are far more important to their particular sport, IMO. How many games are won or lost by a made or missed FG?

Closers are a recent and unnecessary phenomenon. Many times it's better just to let a non-closer finish the game if he's untouchable or has a hot hand. Really hate it when today's managers mindlessly, needlessly and mechanically resort to a closer, only to see them blow the game.

[John1941]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Kickers are far more important to their particular sport, IMO. How many games are won or lost by a made or missed FG?

Closers are a recent and unnecessary phenomenon. Many times it's better just to let a non-closer finish the game if he's untouchable or has a hot hand. Really hate it when today's managers mindlessly, needlessly and mechanically resort to a closer, only to see them blow the game.

A reasonable measure of the value of a certain position is how much its players are paid. The highest-paid kicker right now is Harrison Butker @$6.4M. Meanwhile, Edwin Diaz is earning $20M a year.

If kickers were so important, teams would compete to get the very best, and their salaries would be much higher than they actually are.

[bk400]

I agree on kickers in particular. There should be more of them in the Hall.

Without Vinatieri, there might not be the legend of Tom Brady.

[JollyElm]

My base point, regardless of any other factors and/or noise, is they are an essential part of the game, so need to be considered for enshrinement in Canton based on how well they performed their jobs.
Maybe a KAR stat should be developed.

[Casey2296]

-
Props for the image Darren, doesn't get any better than that.

The brown turf, trampled illegible logo at the 50, and no cutting away to Tom Dempsey's girlfriend before the kick. Resonates.

Along with Len Dawson having a smoke on the bench during the championship game at halftime these images evoke a bygone era.

[jingram058]

I like that the Big Papi, David Ortiz, is in the HoF. If you're going to have officially sanctioned DHs, then shouldn't the best one, IMO, who seemed to be Mr. Clutch in the flesh, be in? Aren't DHs vitally important to their team?