Off Topic: Los Angeles Members Please Check In

[Exhibitman]

These fires are massive and roaring through inhabited areas. Hoping all are safe. One broke out near us early this morning. No immediate threat; it is about 4 miles away and being blown in the opposite direction, but the air quality has gone to crap. I am basically hunkered down at home for the day, just in case the winds shift and I have to gather the animals and move.

Anyone in LA, please let us know you are safe.

[Leon]

I have been watching the news, as others have. Devastating fires. I hope things get under control soon.

.

[Tere1071]

My daughter lives in Pasadena, about one mile east of the Pasadena Convention Center, near Lake and Del Mar. She called my wife and me informing her that it was recommended everyone in her area voluntarily evacuate. We immediately drove up from where we live in Whitter to pick her and her roomate up to stay with us until the all clear message is announced. Traffic flowed very well on the 210, but the smokey air and fallen trees around my daughter's area reminded us that anything is possible.

I hope to see you at the Pasadena show in a few weeks.

Phil aka Tere1071

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by Tere1071

My daughter lives in Pasadena, about one mile east of the Pasadena Convention Center, near Lake and Del Mar. She called my wife and me informing her that it was recommended everyone in her area voluntarily evacuate. We immediately drove up from where we live in Whitter to pick her and her roomate up to stay with us until the all clear message is announced. Traffic flowed very well on the 210, but the smokey air and fallen trees around my daughter's area reminded us that anything is possible.

I hope to see you at the Pasadena show in a few weeks.

Phil aka Tere1071

Phil, thoughts and prayers 🙏

[DeanH3]

Sadly, my Son-in-Law's grandparents lost their home today in the Pasadena area. I can't imagine losing everything. Horrible.

[gregndodgers]

I have a home at Washington and Lake in Pasadena, which is just south of Alta Dena. We evacuated late last night, but I drove to my house early this morning at 4 am to see the fires and check on my house. I drove up Lake for around a mile north of Washington, and that's where you could begin to see smaller fires, which had been started by floating embers from the bigger fires closer to the mountain. There are something like 200 total smaller fires that all make up the Eaton fire. Thick smoke is everywhere and so are downed trees from the 70 mph Santa Ana winds from yesterday. Fortunately, the winds died a lot today. Pasadena has so many trees that it's a match box waiting to be ignited. We are staying in a hotel now, but I'm still working during the day.

[DeanH3]

Originally Posted by gregndodgers

I have a home at Washington and Lake in Pasadena, which is just south of Alta Dena. We evacuated late last night, but I drove to my house early this morning at 4 am to see the fires and check on my house. I drove up Lake for around a mile north of Washington, and that's where you could begin to see smaller fires, which had been started by floating embers from the bigger fires closer to the mountain. There are something like 200 total smaller fires that all make up the Eaton fire. Thick smoke is everywhere and so are downed trees from the 70 mph Santa Ana winds from yesterday. Fortunately, the winds died a lot today. Pasadena has so many trees that it's a match box waiting to be ignited. We are staying in a hotel now, but I'm still working during the day.

All the best Greg. I pray you don't have to experience losing your home.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by DeanH3

Sadly, my Son-in-Law's grandparents lost their home today in the Pasadena area. I can't imagine losing everything. Horrible.

Thoughts and prayers Dean, such a tragedy.

[DeanH3]

Thank you, Phil. Much appreciated.

[NiceDocter]

Hoping for safety and peace of mind for all that are going through this situation. Reminds us all of how fragile our lives can be and how quickly things can change. Keeping all Californians including my Net54 collector friends in prayer during this difficult time.

[Exhibitman]

I've heard from several collectors in the LA area; all are OK.

[gregndodgers]

Originally Posted by DeanH3

Sadly, my Son-in-Law's grandparents lost their home today in the Pasadena area. I can't imagine losing everything. Horrible.

Very sad. If they / you are a believer (like I am), you know things happen for a reason. I hope they escaped with all of their precious personal possessions, money, jewelry, old family photos, and if they have some, valuable sports cards. I had $15,000 in vintage cards stolen once, and I think about that loss at least one per week.

Greg

[gregndodgers]

Originally Posted by DeanH3

All the best Greg. I pray you don't have to experience losing your home.

Thank you.

Greg

[philliesfan]

My thoughts and prayers are with the entire California community.
Bob

[Vintagedeputy]

Seems like between wildfires, earthquakes, etc., California is a difficult place to live. I don’t think I’d quite have the stamina that some of you guys do. Best of luck to those affected.

[GasHouseGang]

Unbelievable destruction and the fires are still burning and spreading. Pacific Palisades has been nearly wiped off the map. It's truly devastating. There are large areas affected by these fires and my heart aches for what these people are going through. Stay strong and we are praying for you.

[Tere1071]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

Seems like between wildfires, earthquakes, etc., California is a difficult place to live. I don’t think I’d quite have the stamina that some of you guys do. Best of luck to those affected.

I made several attempts to state that living in California didn't require any special fortitude, but I wasn't satisfied with any of my responses. However, I can hope everyone on this forum remains well and enjoys their hobby pursuits.

Thank you for your kind thought, James. My daughter is fine and the flames at this point aren't moving in her direction. Once there is containment, we will take back home.

Phil aka Tere1071

[gonefishin]

My thoughts are with everyone. Our daughter lives in San Pedro, and my neighbor is a fire fighter in Glendale. We are closely watching everything that's happening. I'm in San Diego county and we lost our electricity yesterday. SDG&E shuts off the power in the rural areas as a safety precaution.

My wife and I are hoping everyone in the fire areas are safe. Losing a home to fire is devastating regardless if it is a small little house or a mansion in the Hollywood Hills. It carries the same impact.

[gabrinus]

God bless...Jerry

[gregndodgers]

Similar to the Palisades, Altadena has nearly been totally destroyed. With the high wind speeds over 60 mph on Tuesday and early Wed, embers were flying everywhere. I drove within a few feet of several smaller fires. Very scary and surreal experience, and because there were not enough fire fighters and water, many homes were simply burning to the ground with no attempts to save them. Over 1,000 structures destroyed. It looks like a war zone! Sad for all the people who lost their homes!

[icollectDCsports]

Incredibly sad. I feel for all who’ve been impacted and those worrying that they might be.

[DeanH3]

Originally Posted by gregndodgers

Very sad. If they / you are a believer (like I am), you know things happen for a reason. I hope they escaped with all of their precious personal possessions, money, jewelry, old family photos, and if they have some, valuable sports cards. I had $15,000 in vintage cards stolen once, and I think about that loss at least one per week.

Greg

Thanks Greg. I'm definitely a believer as well. That has helped me through many difficult times.

Unfortunately, the last I heard, they only made it out with a change of clothes. Everything else was lost.

[doug.goodman]

I'm in North Hollywood (which is generally nowhere near actual Hollywood) and while we have no fire concerns, the crazy winds were a concern while they were happening. Our only issues were being without power for the better part of two days, but my burning man alum wife had her solar powered generators and candles up and running pretty quick. We lost cable / internet before the power went out, and while we got power back late last night, we just in the last hour or so have gotten back on line.

First I cheked the email backup which is pretty legendary, and I'm ignoring it.

Next were all my go to porn sites of which net54 is near the top of the list, they all managed to survive me not being around.

This thread needs a card...

[gregndodgers]

My wife and I stayed up late last night talking about all the LA fires. I told her that my gut says incompetence is partly to blame for the quick spread of the two biggest fires, Palisades and Eaton. I saw the Eaton fire firsthand on Wednesday morning, and there were no firefighters trying to save homes in the southern portion of Altadena. I saw dozens of homes burning in a span of 20 minutes, and there was not one firetruck present in the area I was in. Apparently, there were not enough firefighters available. In my opinion, that is not a sufficient excuse. Not having enough firefighters is a sign of incompetence in my opinion. When I saw the fire up close, we were already 12 hours into the Eaton fire, yet the fire was still burning out of control.

Remember, we all know that brush fires can get big fast. Heck, my family and I had to be evacuated in 2018 due to the Woolsey fire! And in that 2018 fire, the fire burned uncontrolled all the way to the sea. If not for the sea, how far would that fire have burned?

When did it become acceptable for fires to burn out of control and destroy thousands of homes?

The other big problem is that there was not enough water to fight the two largest fires. The fire-hydrants went dry not long after the fires started.

So it appears that California's leadership was not prepared for these very large fires that grew quickly due to very fast winds. The winds were part of the problem but poor planning and slow response were also to blame in my opinion.

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Originally Posted by gregndodgers

My wife and I stayed up late last night talking about all the LA fires. I told her that my gut says incompetence is partly to blame for the quick spread of the two biggest fires, Palisades and Eaton. I saw the Eaton fire firsthand on Wednesday morning, and there were no firefighters trying to save homes in the southern portion of Altadena. I saw dozens of homes burning in a span of 20 minutes, and there was not one firetruck present in the area I was in. Apparently, there were not enough firefighters available. In my opinion, that is not a sufficient excuse. Not having enough firefighters is a sign of incompetence in my opinion. When I saw the fire up close, we were already 12 hours into the Eaton fire, yet the fire was still burning out of control.

Remember, we all know that brush fires can get big fast. Heck, my family and I had to be evacuated in 2018 due to the Woolsey fire! And in that 2018 fire, the fire burned uncontrolled all the way to the sea. If not for the sea, how far would that fire have burned?

When did it become acceptable for fires to burn out of control and destroy thousands of homes?

The other big problem is that there was not enough water to fight the two largest fires. The fire-hydrants went dry not long after the fires started.

So it appears that California's leadership was not prepared for these very large fires that grew quickly due to very fast winds. The winds were part of the problem but poor planning and slow response were also to blame in my opinion.

Or it could be that this fire was 4x bigger than anything anyone had ever seen and no amount of fire fighters would be sufficient to make a dent in a firestorm that big. Also if you don't have the ability to fight a firestorm from the air no amount of water from a hydrant will be enough. They aren't designed to fight firestorms. They are designed to fight a single house fire or 2. These same people pointing fingers and spreading disinformation (not referring to you Greg) would be the same people complaining about fire fighters' salaries, overtime and pensions. Let's all take a beat and show some real empathy for those that are suffering before playing the blame game. Unfortunately this selfish behavior is normalized from the top as we don't have a leader that's magnanimous enough to comprehend putting others before themselves.

[jingram058]

"The leadership wasn't prepared..."

I'd like to know, given a colossal population who are determined to live there, how the leadership could have been.

[gregndodgers]

Originally Posted by ajjohnsonsoxfan

Or it could be that this fire was 4x bigger than anything anyone had ever seen and no amount of fire fighters would be sufficient to make a dent in a firestorm that big. Also if you don't have the ability to fight a firestorm from the air no amount of water from a hydrant will be enough. They aren't designed to fight firestorms. They are designed to fight a single house fire or 2. These same people pointing fingers and spreading disinformation (not referring to you Greg) would be the same people complaining about fire fighters' salaries, overtime and pensions. Let's all take a beat and show some real empathy for those that are suffering before playing the blame game. Unfortunately this selfish behavior is normalized from the top as we don't have a leader that's magnanimous enough to comprehend putting others before themselves.

If the hydrants had pressure, the water could have been used to save the dozens of homes I saw burning.

I served on a nuclear sub in the late 1990s. After each torpedo drill where we engaged a simulated enemy sub, we deconstructed every minute detail to determine what we did right and what we did wrong.

In the case of Eaton, the fire started around 6:30 pm on Tuesday, and the Santa Ana winds were blowing at 60 mph sustained winds. Obviously, that’s incredibly fast! But I also experienced the 2018 Woolsey fire, which raged not far from the current fires, and in that fire, the Santa Ana winds played a big role too. In Woolsey and Eaton, the fires burned uncontrolled.

So after Woolsey, what lessons were learned? The Wolsey fire burned 100,000 acres and destroyed over 1,600 structures. Also, the 2018 Camp fire destroyed 153,336 acres, caused 85 fatalities, displaced more than 50,000 people, and destroyed more than 18,000 structures. So it is incorrect to say that we had not seen a fire this big before.

Are we to accept that some fires are too large to control? That we are powerless to prevent destruction of thousands of structures? That widespread destruction, hardship, and loss of life is inevitable?

Well, I’m a submariner, a career military officer, and I will never accept those terms. We must understand what our leaders did right and what they did wrong, and I am currently under the belief, that there is a lot of blame to go around.

Should our leaders be pointing fingers and assessing blame? No, because they must focus on saving lives and homes. But we as concerned citizens should be asking questions because these fires are still raging and we must ensure our leaders know we will not accept incompetence. As the fires continue to burn and more homes are threatened, our leaders must have the requisite sense of urgency. Citizens help promote that.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I am not from LA, prior to this once in a lifetime perfect storm of an event, was anyone protesting that there were not enough firefighters to battle a potential disaster, or is this hindsight?

[gregndodgers]

People seem to forget or are not aware that such large fires are not unprecedented in California. Just a few years ago (2018) the Camp fire destroyed 153,336 acres, caused 85 fatalities, displaced more than 50,000 people, and destroyed more than 18,000 structures, causing an estimated $16.5 billion in damage. At the same time that the Camp fire was killing thousands, the Woolsey fire mowed down over 100,000 acres and destroyed over 1,500 homes.

So very large, simultaneous brush fires are not unprecedented in California.

If some do not want to hold leadership accountable and then accept that these large fires will destroy everything in its path and burn uncontrolled, that’s part of the problem.

I’ve been evacuated twice now (Woolsey in 2018 and now Eaton) and in both cases, the fire got to within a half mile of my two homes. I think when you are so close to the problem, the urgency for answers is much greater. Also, I am dangerously close to losing my homeowners insurance. Insurance companies are simply saying no; they won’t insure certain homes.

[egri]

Thought the excerpt from a Wall Street Journal article, written by someone who lost his home, would be of interest to the forum (emphasis mine):

Lola, my wife Silka and I packed what we could. I spent most of the next 10 minutes looking for the carrier for the cat and then the cat herself. I threw my most prized sports cards—a 1951 Bowman Willie Mays, a 1952 Topps Jackie Robinson—and my prescriptions, passport, laptop and a couple of chargers into a backpack. For some reason, I also packed a few T-shirts but no socks, underwear, pants, jackets or any other clothing.

Ten minutes to pack your life? I made bad choices: swimming ear plugs but no contact lenses. My daughter also made some questionable calls. One high heel, Lola, really? But she did grab our dog. My wife made the clutch calls, packing a few pieces of art and our most important documents: birth certificates, marriage licenses, passports. But then she forgot her jewelry.

[gregndodgers]

This is crazy.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2kTrN...B0b2RheQ%3D%3D

[Shoeless Moe]

In Chicago they had "Shot Spotter", until the new Mayor cancelled it this past September. That's not really the point. It was used to detect when gunshots went off, so police could be dispatched immediately. Police on the way b4 911 called.

In this day and age, and maybe with the use of drones or heat maps or what have you, how come they can't detect a fire before it becomes massive & spreads. I know that may be easier said then done, but if you had some detection type service once they are alerted to a fire, maybe they can provide an all out assault to stop or contain.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by gregndodgers

This is crazy.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2kTrN...B0b2RheQ%3D%3D

Appalling, absolutely appalling! But the citizens of Los Angeles voted her into the position!

Originally Posted by ABC11

Seven months before the uncontrolled Palisades Fire in Los Angeles, the city's fire department budget for this fiscal year was cut by more than $17.5 million, records show.

Mayor Karen Bass signed the City of Los Angeles' budget for the 2024-2025 fiscal year. The total budget for the city's fire department was $819.64 million.

Records show that for the previous fiscal year, the LAFD's total budget was $837.2 million. The total budget includes salaries, expenses and equipment.

I guess Mayor Karen Bass had other priorities....

[Peter_Spaeth]

And people probably applauded her for getting the budget more under control even if it was a small amount relatively. Can't have it both ways.

[gregndodgers]

"While water supplies from local fire hydrants are not designed to extinguish wildfires over large areas, losing supplies from fire hydrants likely impaired the effort to protect some homes and evacuation corridors."

~ Governor Gavin Newsom

Exactly. if the city (fire hydrant) water system had been re-charged from local reservoirs (there are two large ones within 30 miles of the Eaton fire), could more homes have been saved?

A local Altadena man's charred body was found next to his house, and in his hands was the water hose he was using to try to save his house.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And people probably applauded her for getting the budget more under control even if it was a small amount relatively. Can't have it both ways.

Oh?!

Originally Posted by Fox News

While Los Angeles officials were stripping millions in funding from their fire department ahead of one of the most destructive wildfires in state history, hundreds of thousands of dollars were allocated to fund programs such as a "Gay Men’s Chorus" and housing for the transgender homeless.

Deadly fires erupted across Southern California this week, which were amplified by fierce winds that resulted in about 10,000 homes and businesses being destroyed. After fire hydrants weren't producing water and homes burned to the ground, residents began calling out Democratic-led leadership in the state, who cut the Los Angeles Fire Department's (LAFD) funding by $17.6 million just months prior.

But even as the department funding was being pulled back, a Fox News Digital review of the L.A. County budget uncovered thousands of taxpayer dollars that were allocated to diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives and programs giving syringes to the homeless.

For example, the budget allocated $14,010 to the "Gay Men’s Chorus of Los Angeles" this year, a group that seeks to "create musical experiences that strengthen our role as a leader among lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender (LGBT) and performing arts organizations."

Another $190,000 was allocated to the Homeless and HIV Program, which includes a "syringe exchange" program that gives sterile syringes to homeless drug addicts.

An additional $100,000 of county funds was put aside to pay for Juneteenth celebrations, while $13,000 was allocated to "Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Heritage Month Programs."

The Civil + Human Rights and Equity Department was also granted $100,000 for a "Midnight Stroll Transgender Cafe" to fund housing for homeless transgender individuals in Hollywood.

The county also granted $13,000 to "Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Heritage Month Programs" and $4.5 million to the infrastructure of electric vehicle (EV) chargers. Appropriations for the General City Purposes saw $250,000 set aside for "equity and inclusion."

According to the report, homelessness funding was larger than the LAFD budget for the second year in a row.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

I guess Mayor Karen Bass had other priorities....

They say that Nero fiddled while Rome burned. But at least he didn't leave town. Meanwhile L.A.'s Mayor Bass flew off to Ghana on a taxpayer funded junket in the midst of the conflagration devouring the city.

[BioCRN]

Are some of you actually pretending $500K to other city services would keep fires from burning houses?

This is LA. The city gives 1.9 billion to cops.

Billions. 1.9 of them.

900 million to the fire department, cutting 17.5 million of it burnt down a bunch of houses?

This isn't a money or budgeting issue.

It is perfectly fine to think your money is funding stuff that isn't needed, or it's wasted, or whatever, but budget allocations to other things and small fire training cuts aren't helping save houses. Houses aren't burning because incompetent people don't know how to put out fires.

Water, water availability, land/scrub management, wind...some things can be controlled, some can't, but it's not money keeping things from happening.

[pwang100]

Karen Bass..

https://youtu.be/igN9zPFMtcI?feature=shared

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

They say that Nero fiddled while Rome burned. But at least he didn't leave town. Meanwhile L.A.'s Mayor Bass flew off to Ghana on a taxpayer funded junket in the midst of the conflagration devouring the city.

She left for Ghana before any fires broke out. She didn't fly out in the "midst" of anything. Not like Ted Cruz did flying to Mexico in the midst of the Texas winter storm that killed 246 Texans in 2021. But I digress.

Tired of idiots spreading lies and misinformation when people are suffering.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ajjohnsonsoxfan

She left for Ghana before any fires broke out. She didn't fly out in the "midst" of anything. Not like Ted Cruz did flying to Mexico in the midst of the Texas winter storm that killed 246 Texans in 2021. But I digress.

Tired of idiots spreading lies and misinformation when people are suffering.

I can't speak to her competence overall, but it seems clear once she received word, she flew back immediately and was actively engaged as best she could during her return. Agree that the scapegoating is not productive.

[gregndodgers]

Maybe Gossage or Hrabosky are free to help fight the fires? They were excellent firemen in their prime. Maybe they still got it!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Oh?!

Classic Fox News misdirection and bias. If only LA hadn't tried to take care of those degenerates with HIV, the fires could have been contained. I mean who can take this seriously? Agenda much? Never mind, I know who.

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Classic Fox News misdirection and bias. If only LA hadn't tried to take care of those degenerates with HIV, the fires could have been contained. I mean who can take this seriously? Agenda much? Never mind, I know who.

You want to get political, you fucking loudmouth twat??? This is for you, asshole...

mediabidenCPR.jpg

[G1911]

I doubt the $17.5M made a material difference here. I also doubt that California has to burn down every 1-3 years and we have to have water shortages frequently, and there is nothing we can do about the problems. Perhaps they could not direct as much fresh water into the ocean as they do now. A host of measures and ideas have been proposed long before this particular fire, with very little ever actually being done. Current California policy is clearly not working as this serious problem gets worse, but of course the most important thing is government never ever be held accountable or criticized since there is no meaningful opposition in the state to blame policy on. Attention is rarely focused on solving practical problems, instead of publicity stunts and virtue signaling about meaningless drivel.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by gregndodgers

This is crazy.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2kTrN...B0b2RheQ%3D%3D

What an utter embarrassment. Shameful.

[gregndodgers]

“Nearly 100 fire engines, trucks, and ambulances are out of service awaiting repairs. LAFD is already severely understaffed and experiencing unsustainable call levels and having these million dollar rigs out of service only makes things worse.”

~ LA Councilwoman Traci Park, Aug 6, 2024.

"As an all-risk fire and rescue agency serving more than four million people, the LAFD is one of the busiest and most understaffed big city fire departments in the entire country." United Firefighters of LA (UFLAC), Sept. 6, 2024

“My message is the fire department needs to be properly funded. "It’s not."

- LA Fire Chief Crowley. Jan 10, 2025.

The $7 million reduction in overtime hours "severely limited the Department's capacity to prepare for, train for, and respond to large-scale emergencies.”

- LA Fire Chief Crowley. Dec 4, 2024

“The LAFD is extremely understaffed and under-resourced.”

- LA Fire Chief Crowley. Dec 17, 2024


Right, it does not appear that money was an issue.

[BioCRN]

Originally Posted by gregndodgers

“Nearly 100 fire engines, trucks, and ambulances are out of service awaiting repairs. LAFD is already severely understaffed and experiencing unsustainable call levels and having these million dollar rigs out of service only makes things worse.”

~ LA Councilwoman Traci Park, Aug 6, 2024.

“My message is the fire department needs to be properly funded. "It’s not."

- LA Fire Chief Crowley. Jan 10, 2025.

The $7 million reduction in overtime hours "severely limited the Department's capacity to prepare for, train for, and respond to large-scale emergencies.”

- LA Fire Chief Crowley. Dec 4, 2024

Right, it does not appear that money was an issue.

Firetrucks, overtime hours, and training is not the droids you're looking for if you actually want things that could have or in the future will help the situation LA is currently experiencing.

This doesn't seem to be a left/right weird ass political issue.

This is a big deal that needs real solutions. The billions of personal property lost is a big deal. The displaced economic resources fighting this fire is a big deal.

If blame is really important, the damage is so extensive this very specific series of fires will be studied and results/suggestions will be made.

This event is so destructive it will change policy. What changes are to be made should matter more than anything. Money, hiring more people, and building new stations will most likely be part of these changes. While labor seems to be a major concern with these current fires, there is no amount of in-house labor or firetrucks driving to locations that have an impact on what is happening as much as water availability, localized water demand issues at a given moment, brush/land management, wind, etc...

[gregndodgers]

Originally Posted by BioCRN

Firetrucks, overtime hours, and training is not the droids you're looking for if you actually want things that could have or in the future will help the situation LA is currently experiencing.

As with any catastrophe which has a multitude of factors / causes all coming together simultaneously, a lack of funding appears to be one of the many problems. As I said in my post, "money was an issue." Never said it was the only one.

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

You want to get political, you fucking loudmouth twat??? This is for you, asshole...

Ummm ... JollyElm ?? Are you OK ?? lol