Memory Lane sold cards they didn't have per SCD

[Snowman]

Well color me shocked. Shocked I tell you...

Anyone hear anything about this or know more details? SCD claims that Memory Lane ran auctions for $2 million worth of cards that were stolen from the hotel at Strongsville and they just allowed the auctions to run anyhow, in hopes that they might be able to track them down lol.

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...om-ohio-hotel/

[Bicem]

Wow, wonder if the D304 Matty was one of the cards.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Gypsies?

[Stonepony]

When I arrived at the hotel in Strongsville Thursday, Joe was in the lobby having a prolonged conversation with the authorities. I guess I now know why.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Well color me shocked. Shocked I tell you...

Anyone hear anything about this or know more details? SCD claims that Memory Lane ran auctions for $2 million worth of cards that were stolen from the hotel at Strongsville and they just allowed the auctions to run anyhow, in hopes that they might be able to track them down lol.

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...om-ohio-hotel/

This has to be a first, no? How many of those cards were Ryan's and did they ever inform him? Seems a little irresponsible (huge understatement) to have shipped 2 million dollars worth of cards to a Best Western for the hotel to receive on behalf of the card dealer. I mean what could possibly go wrong?

They had 3 weeks to find the cards but they let them run anyway? Hmmm...

This one trumps both the 51 Bowman Mantle being stolen in the line for ice cream and the dude who held the brown paper bag full of $1 bills while the customer took a pile of cards to show his son.

[jacksons]

I think things are going to change after this debacle. I never felt comfortable about AH’s displaying consigned items at card shows thousands of miles away from their headquarters. Especially with today’s prices. It’s too risky. Is insurance going to cover all of this?

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by jacksons

Is insurance going to cover all of this?

Good question. I guess it depends on the requirements of the policy. It is possible they would decline coverage since it was not sent to someone who was a party to the transaction. They essentially sent it to a stranger and told them to hang on to it for them for a few days.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by jacksons

Is insurance going to cover all of this?

Lol, no. Of course not. Not if the details in that article are correct anyhow.

Now I'm worried that they won't be able to pay me for my lawsuit... Ugg

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Lol, no. Of course not. Not if the details in that article are correct anyhow.

Now I'm worried that they won't be able to pay me for my lawsuit... Ugg

From the article:

"The cards remained in the auction in hopes that police could recover them prior to last weekend’s close but as of Monday night, they were still missing and company officials spent Monday informing buyers of what happened. All were fully insured so consignors will receive their proceeds from Memory Lane."

Are you saying consignors will not be compensated fully for the hammer price of the missing cards?

[Casey2296]

Wow, I really dislike people who steal, especially when it's an inside job which I would bet dollars to donuts this is.

In my best Desi Arnaz voice, "Best Western, you have some splainin' to do".

[sportscardpete]

This doesn’t make sense, why would ML keep an auction running if the items were stolen? Something doesn’t add up.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by sportscardpete

This doesn’t make sense, why would ML keep an auction running if the items were stolen? Something doesn’t add up.

In the hopes that the cards would be found, which is unlikely.
What it does do is establish the value of the insurance payout for the consignors.

[sportscardpete]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

In the hopes that the cards would be found, which is unlikely.
What it does do is establish the value of the insurance payout for the consignors.

I really hope that’s not the case.

[Andrew1975]

Maybe kept the auction going so they would have values for insurance claim?

[brob28]

Originally Posted by sportscardpete

This doesn’t make sense, why would ML keep an auction running if the items were stolen? Something doesn’t add up.

My guess is to establish value for insurance purposes.

[Peter_Spaeth]

1000 posts in, and you're responding months later to one on the first page which has been discussed in literally hundreds of subseqauent posts? Sorry, but

[4815162342]

Tonight will be the second night in three that I won’t get much sleep. I’m pretty devastated.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

Tonight will be the second night in three that I won’t get much sleep. I’m pretty devastated.

Did you get a Dear John email?

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Did you get a Dear John email?

Phone call and email. I just hope and pray the cards are recovered and the scumbag thief serves hard time.

[notfast]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

Phone call and email. I just hope and pray the cards are recovered and the scumbag thief serves hard time.

Sorry to hear.

Want to disclose what card or cards?

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by notfast

Sorry to hear.

Want to disclose what card or cards?

[Lorewalker]

If ML uses Collectibles Insurance Service, if I read it correctly, it appears they will have no coverage. The attached is from a standard dealer policy that a friend just sent me.

[anchorednw]

It will be interesting to hear from Ryan on this. I for one didn't receive a call/email, but I just had some mid grade T206 and a T200. Old Mill E Collins PSA 6 was most valuable. Lots of winners of of Cracker Jacks posting in the ML auction thread here.

The article mentioned T206, Cracker Jacks, Caramel cards and Brunners as missing.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

Phone call and email. I just hope and pray the cards are recovered and the scumbag thief serves hard time.

Truly sorry to hear that, bidders got the short shrift but I don't see how it could have played out differently.
I'd assume if the cards are recovered you would be given first option, which isn't much of a consolation but it's something.

And I agree, some flunky Best Western thief should definitely spend some time in the cooler.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

I'd assume if the cards are recovered you would be given first option

Yes, that’s correct.

[jacksons]

Imagine assuming that the staff of a Best Western in small town U.S.A. can be trusted with a $2 million package, just for a few days…

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by jacksons

Imagine assuming that the staff of a Best Western in small town U.S.A. can be trusted with a $2 million package, just for a few days…

Integrity is definitely in short supply nowadays.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by jacksons

Imagine assuming that the staff of a Best Western in small town U.S.A. can be trusted with a $2 million package, just for a few days…

LOL. Yeah, the fact that a large heavily insured box showed up at a Best Western a few days before the card show next door . . . who could possibly have connected the dots.

[Lucas00]

They shipped them to the hotel? It's like asking for them to be stolen... Is that seriously something dealers at shows do? If so I would STOP doing that asap.

Drive them in a car, or armored truck if that's your thing. But don't ship them to a hotel your staying at that is going to be a mecca for expensive cards. Come on now.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Lucas00

They shipped them to the hotel? It's like asking for them to be stolen... Is that seriously something dealers at shows do? If so I would STOP doing that asap.

Drive them in a car, or armored truck if that's your thing. But don't ship them to a hotel your staying at that is going to be a mecca for expensive cards. Come on now.

Here's an insane thought . . . .hire a bonded security guy and put him on an airplane and throw in two nights at the Best Western . . . one rule . . . must take cards on the plane and never leave them from your sight. That means they don't go into checked baggage and don't even go in the overhead compartment. Just keep them in your eyesight until the moment you hand us the bag.

Nah, fk it, just mail them to the Best Western and hope for the, uh, best.

[ALBB]

Best Western, they are OK,.. breakfast included, free Wi FI,

[BRoberts]

Perhaps Scott Russell of The Collector Connection can post about the legalities of an auction house selling items it knows it doesn't have in its possession. Scott has said he graduated from auction school, and I bet that topic was covered.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by BRoberts

Perhaps Scott Russell of The Collector Connection can post about the legalities of an auction house selling items it knows it doesn't have in its possession. Scott has said he graduated from auction school, and I bet that topic was covered.

I am about as certain as I can be that ML would've consulted with counsel before making the decision they did. I don't remember ever discussing auctioning of things that have been stolen prior to completion of the auction. It's a pretty unique scenario.

A related concept that is covered and is legal is that there are a surprising number of auction companies (not necessarily sports) that auction items they don't have possession of. Whether they're allowing a consignor hold the item until they approve of the sale and in some cases even allowing them to ship it on to the final destination on behalf of the auction company. We are advised against the practice in school for a number of pretty obvious reasons. I've had consignors try and make these arrangements with me, we turn down the consignments. Amazingly though, it is not actually illegal (really isn't that in essence what an ebay auction is?)

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Here's an insane thought . . . .hire a bonded security guy and put him on an airplane and throw in two nights at the Best Western . . . one rule . . . must take cards on the plane and never leave them from your sight. That means they don't go into checked baggage and don't even go in the overhead compartment. Just keep them in your eyesight until the moment you hand us the bag.

This was my second thought after realizing that running the auction in silence was the best move to establish value for items that perhaps have aged comps or none at all.

It certainly seems like there has to already exist bonded receipt/delivery companies in all 50 states for high value shipments, collectables, art, etc. Just shipping to a contractor in Ohio and giving them a short drive vs. direct delivering 2 million in items to a business front that has likely 70% of in-house employees on minimum wage or close to it seems dangerously risky.

If this is not the case, I may have just come up with a business idea.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by JustinD

This was my second thought after realizing that running the auction in silence was the best move to establish value for items that perhaps have aged comps or none at all.

It certainly seems like there has to already exist bonded receipt/delivery companies in all 50 states for high value shipments, collectables, art, etc. Just shipping to a contractor in Ohio and giving them a short drive vs. direct delivering 2 million in items to a business front that has likely 70% of in-house employees on minimum wage or close to it seems dangerously risky.

If this is not the case, I may have just come up with a business idea.

While definitely risky, shipping via FedEx or some similar shipper while having your own insurance in case of problems is presumably the cheapest way to do it and has likely been done that way for a long time (as indicated in the SCD article). Most companies these days will usually try to do things as cheaply as possible until there's a problem. Then they will reassess if it's worth spending more to do it differently.

[ThomasL]

Ok Here is what I dont get...(but I guess lawyers advised them not to do this for some reason?)

They know about the theft before the auction starts correct?

Then why not cancel the auction until the items are recovered and then have the same auction at a later date?

Also until the cosigners are paid out I would not be signing anyone's praises either...they can say they will do a lot of things but until the money is in hand they haven't done anything.

If we are talking about hypotheticals...Image a cosigner who has to sell his loved collection to pay for medical treatments right now...but now their payout could possible take years of litigation...

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by Lucas00

They shipped them to the hotel? It's like asking for them to be stolen... Is that seriously something dealers at shows do? If so I would STOP doing that asap.

Drive them in a car, or armored truck if that's your thing. But don't ship them to a hotel your staying at that is going to be a mecca for expensive cards. Come on now.

Or just pick them up from the Fedex location near the airport on your way to the BW?

Not understanding the logic to send this shipment to the BW opposed to picking up at the Fedex location. At least if someone at Fedex pilfers the cards, the collectibles insurance would cover.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

Or just pick them up from the Fedex location near the airport on your way to the BW?

Not understanding the logic to send this shipment to the BW opposed to picking up at the Fedex location. At least if someone at Fedex pilfers the cards, the collectibles insurance would cover.

From the SCD article, ML is not the only one to do something like this:

"If it’s impractical to drive to a remote location for a show or other event, dealers often ship items ahead of time, tracking shipments and making arrangements to take delivery. One former auction house owner told us Monday that while the process can be nerve wracking, problems are rare."

Also, I would think that ML would have insurance to cover themselves for this type of occurrence. I doubt they would risk sending several million dollars worth of cards in a way that wasn't covered.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by jayshum

From the SCD article, ML is not the only one to do something like this:

"If it’s impractical to drive to a remote location for a show or other event, dealers often ship items ahead of time, tracking shipments and making arrangements to take delivery. One former auction house owner told us Monday that while the process can be nerve wracking, problems are rare."

Perhaps this would be fine if it were a box of 50 of my craptastic cards with a total worth in the very low 4 digit range. Just because shipping in this fashion has been a common practice doesn't mean it makes sense with such a valuable 7 digit box shipment. Memory Lane shouldn't get off with a "oh well, shit happens" pat on the back. They handled this shipment with little foresight, not much more than if it were flowers sent to the mother-in-law for her birthday.

And how honorable is it to let the stolen card lots continue as if the cards were still legitimately being auctioned? At some point before the auction end these lots should have been closed when they hadn't been recovered. As others have mentioned value could have been determined by other methods rather than an integrity challenged phantom auction.

Perhaps out of my financial collecting universe, but I think a common sense perspective...my 2 cents from a guy who owns multiple cards worth 2 cents.


brianp(arker)-beme

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Perhaps this would be fine if it were a box of 50 of my craptastic cards with a total worth in the very low 4 digit range. Just because shipping in this fashion has been a common practice doesn't mean it makes sense with such a valuable 7 digit box shipment. Memory Lane shouldn't get off with a "oh well, shit happens" pat on the back. They handled this shipment with little foresight, not much more than if it were flowers sent to the mother-in-law for her birthday.

And how honorable is it to let the stolen card lots continue as if the cards were still legitimately being auctioned? At some point before the auction end these lots should have been closed when they hadn't been recovered. As others have mentioned value could have been determined by other methods rather than an integrity challenged phantom auction.

Perhaps out of my financial collecting universe, but I think a common sense perspective...my 2 cents from a guy who owns multiple cards worth 2 cents.


brianp(arker)-beme

I was just pointing out that what ML did was apparently not uncommon according to someone who used to have an auction house. No indication about whether that was true for cards this valuable. Personally, I was shocked to read that an auction house would be shipping that much value in the way described, but if it was cheaper and had always worked before without any problems, I'm not surprised they would keep doing it.

[FrankWakefield]

First, once the auction house no longer has the item, they need to immediately STOP accepting bids and STOP trying to sell it. Existing bids should be voided. Update the listing with NO LONGER AVAILABLE AT THIS TIME, and mention on the front page of the auction exactly what has happened. To continue to try to sell something they don't have is misleading.

Next, communicate directly with each of the consignors of the items that aren't available about what has occurred; and with their insurance company, immediately.

Keep law enforcement, the insurance folks, and the consignors, informed of updates as they are available.

Again, you can't sell something you don't have, and it's wrong to go through the steps involved with the auction when the item is gone.

And finally, contemplate about what happened, how it happened, and what changes can be done to minimize it happening again; then implement those changes.

[docpatlv]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards
I think a much bigger detriment would've been the mysterious removal of $2m of the best cards. Can you imagine, as a bidder, continuing to bid in an auction where that happened?

If you’re replying to me, of course I can…I would, as long as the cards I wanted were still available. What percentage of bidders do you think are bidding on $25-50k cards? I would think it’s small.

M.ike P.ugeda

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

First, once the auction house no longer has the item, they need to immediately STOP accepting bids and STOP trying to sell it. Existing bids should be voided. Update the listing with NO LONGER AVAILABLE AT THIS TIME, and mention on the front page of the auction exactly what has happened. To continue to try to sell something they don't have is misleading.

Next, communicate directly with each of the consignors of the items that aren't available about what has occurred; and with their insurance company, immediately.

Keep law enforcement, the insurance folks, and the consignors, informed of updates as they are available.

Again, you can't sell something you don't have, and it's wrong to go through the steps involved with the auction when the item is gone.

And finally, contemplate about what happened, how it happened, and what changes can be done to minimize it happening again; then implement those changes.

Stop making so much sence. I was actually at the counter when the detectives were questioning the guy about the "Lost Package" & "reviewing Video". I never realized this was what they were discussing. I should have been more assertive, listened in more attentively and asked questions.

EVERYONE was able to keep this a SECRET for 2-3 Weeks. That was really helpful. That's a crime or at least a crying shame in itself. You know I woulda been flapping my gums. What was the big secret? So they could pull off the fake auction? For insurance? For Law Enforcement, for the cosigners. Lets do it for "Duty & Humanity". That's Lame AF, IMHO.

We would like a list of all the cards that were involved right now

[oldjudge]

Why aren't the images of the cards posted? That would limit the options of the thief,

[Seven]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Why aren't the images of the cards posted? That would limit the options of the thief,

My only guess is because the investigation is still ongoing? But I truly don't have much of a clue either. Maybe someone can shed light on the situation.

[GaryPassamonte]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

First, once the auction house no longer has the item, they need to immediately STOP accepting bids and STOP trying to sell it. Existing bids should be voided. Update the listing with NO LONGER AVAILABLE AT THIS TIME, and mention on the front page of the auction exactly what has happened. To continue to try to sell something they don't have is misleading.

Next, communicate directly with each of the consignors of the items that aren't available about what has occurred; and with their insurance company, immediately.

Keep law enforcement, the insurance folks, and the consignors, informed of updates as they are available.

Again, you can't sell something you don't have, and it's wrong to go through the steps involved with the auction when the item is gone.

And finally, contemplate about what happened, how it happened, and what changes can be done to minimize it happening again; then implement those changes.

+1

[Neal]

Couldn't 54 cards be carried onto a plane rather easily?

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Neal

Couldn't 54 cards be carried onto a plane rather easily?

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

Was that NET54 cards

[UKCardGuy]

Wow... Just wow. A pretty incredible story. I feel for the consignors in this scenario. I hope you are all made whole.

[theshowandme]

How drunk do I need to be to read this thing from start to finish in one sitting?