HOF? Pettitte; Sabathia: Either; Nether; Both

[clydepepper]

C.C. hits the ballot for the first time in January; Pettitte will make his 7th appearance, getting 13.5% last year.

Comparable NYY Lefties.

Pettitte- 256W-153L, 3.85, 2448K
Post-Season: 19-11, 3.81, 183K

Sabathia- 251W-161L, 3.74, 3089K
Post-Season: 10-7, 4.28, 121K

.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

My unscientific take is, there is no time in his career where anyone said "Oh shit, we have to face Petitte tomorrow." There was definitely times you felt that way about Sabathia.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

C.C. hits the ballot for the first time in January; Pettitte will make his 7th appearance, getting 13.5% last year.

Comparable NYY Lefties.

Pettitte- 256W-153L, 3.85, 2448K
Post-Season: 19-11, 3.81, 183K

Sabathia- 251W-161L, 3.74, 3089K
Post-Season: 10-7, 4.28, 121K

.

CC Sabathia has a better shot considering there were never any PED allegations against him.

[packs]

I think CC will get in. He has 3,000 K’s and that’s a milestone number.

Pettitte would be in if not for his PED stain and I don’t think he’ll escape it. He has 100 wins over losses and he was THE MAN in New York for his entire career. Whoever said nobody feared Andy is entitled to their opinion but in New York there was only one pitcher you wanted out there: Andy.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by packs

I think CC will get in. He has 3,000 K’s and that’s a milestone number.

Pettitte would be in if not for his PED stain and I don’t think he’ll escape it. He has 100 wins over losses and he was THE MAN in New York for his entire career. Whoever said nobody feared Andy is entitled to their opinion but in New York there was only one pitcher you wanted out there: Andy.

+1

Sabathia probably gets in 2nd ballot and Pettitte would get it in if not for the PED stain.

Pettitte had 4 top 5 Cy Young finishes, won 5 World Series, won 19 games in the postseason, was ALCS MVP. 19 wins is the postseason is the most by any player, ever. That alone is almost enough to get him in.

[packs]

Another thing I love about Andy is the guy never had a losing season in his career. He did finish with a 500 record twice but he was the kind of pitcher who always gave you a chance to win. Yankee legend.

[D. Bergin]

Pettitte learned a lot of things from Roger Clemens when he came to the Yankees. Both good and bad.

It's not a coincidence that Andy followed Roger to Houston and then they met up back with the Yankees in 2007 for Roger's swan song.

Pettitte was famously the only Yankee who attempted to work out with Roger, who would eventually be able to keep up with him.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

+1

Sabathia probably gets in 2nd ballot and Pettitte would get it in if not for the PED stain.

Pettitte had 4 top 5 Cy Young finishes, won 5 World Series, won 19 games in the postseason, was ALCS MVP. 19 wins is the postseason is the most by any player, ever. That alone is almost enough to get him in.

I have a hard time giving a damn about post season counting stats. Your TEAM has to get you there an awful lot to give you even a chance of racking those numbers up. So I have a hard time saying Petitte was greater than say Felix Hernandez, because he got a ton of postseason opportunities. When Fernandez was a much more dominant pitcher overall, albeit one who was, unfortunately, finished at a much younger age. Then again that's what PED's gets you.

[packs]

I see the point about the team you're on but I think there's another side to that argument too.

You know what Andy could do in the postseason and what you know is that you had a winner on the mound.

Other guys, who knows? There's something to be said for certainty.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I have a hard time giving a damn about post season counting stats. Your TEAM has to get you there an awful lot to give you even a chance of racking those numbers up. So I have a hard time saying Petitte was greater than say Felix Hernandez, because he got a ton of postseason opportunities. When Fernandez was a much more dominant pitcher overall, albeit one who was, unfortunately, finished at a much younger age. Then again that's what PED's gets you.

A bit confused by your Felix Hernandez comment. How did you come to the conclusion that you think I think Pettitte is better than Felix?

But since you brought up Felix, I think he is actually pretty comparable to Pettitte. Felix has the Cy Young and 2 ERA titles, but as you mentioned, his career was pretty short--he was basically done by age 30. Wins may be a somewhat meaningless number, but Felix's 169 wins compared to Pettitte's 259 is maybe meaningful, and speaks to Pettitte's consistency over time--he still going strong into his 40s.

Felix never got to 50 WAR, and Pettitte's was over 60. Felix's JAWS is 97th for a starting pitcher at 44.1, and Pettitte's is 82nd at 47.2.

Both have a career ERA+ of 117, 4 Top 5 Cy Young finishes, but got there in different ways. Felix was more of a power pitcher, with 8.3 strikeouts per 9 to Pettitte's 6.6 strikeouts per 9. But Pettitte being more of a pitch to contact guy may have helped with his longevity.

Its not Felix's fault he never saw a postseason opportunity (except for maybe in 2018 when his poor play may kept them out of the playoffs) . But its also not Pettitte's fault that he did. Pettitte took advantage of great situation to record the most postseason wins ever.