Investors in Collectable concerned: 'They are holding our items hostage'

[parkplace33]

https://www.cllct.com/sports-collect...-items-hostage

Never bought into the fractional market. I hope these investors get some money back.

[doug.goodman]

PT Barnum

[4815162342]

‘One investor, who sold shares of his Bill Russell, Bobby Orr and Durant jerseys to Collectable, said he's very concerned with the state of affairs.

"They are hostile, and they are holding our items hostage," he said, requesting anonymity. "Not only do I have so much money tied up in this, but I so believed in this platform. I feel terrible for my ex-girlfriend and my nieces and nephews who put money in."’

Good Lord.

[Hankphenom]

OMG! "Michael Brown, who owns 13% in the 1933 Babe Ruth Goudey card worth around $15,000, reached out to the new Collectable management, asking to buy out the card. The last value being $125,000, Brown said he offered $130,000. "They actually did answer," Brown said. "With a 'no.' So I said, 'OK, Can I see the card so that I can perhaps make a better offer?' I wrote them back five times. They never answered."
The only thing I ever want to own 13% of is Berkshire Hathaway!

[G1911]

The final two paragraphs seems to be closer to the truth than the hyperbole clickbait title.

"Investors always have the rights to sue for fraud or willful negligence, but the provisions in Collectables' contracts would likely make a case difficult.

It's not like Collectable has run away with the investments. The company is showing what it owns in a huge retail space in New York, asking for more investors, while many original investors just want to know how to get out."

Investors are unhappy their investments were not good investments. Investors signed an agreement quite clearly spelling out what their rights are. The company is showing items off in a retail space looking to make profitable sells.


Cry me a river.

[Leon]

Stupid idea to start with.
.

[ullmandds]

we all make mistakes...I guess I'll expect to never retrieve my 2K partial ownership of that plank t206.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

we all make mistakes...I guess I'll expect to never retrieve my 2K partial ownership of that plank t206.

Say it ain’t so, Pete.

[brunswickreeves]

Reminds me of the Simpsons episode: Bart, Milhouse and Martin buy Radioactive Man No.1

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xZ98cOqnwTA

[Snapolit1]

Owning a fractional share of an asset held in someone else's vault.

A dream come true.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by brunswickreeves

Reminds me of the Simpsons episode: Bart, Milhouse and Martin buy Radioactive Man No.1

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xZ98cOqnwTA

Did the comic book dealer take the kids’ money and keep the book?

[Leon]

It's like owning stocks you don't control. Who in their right mind does that? Might as well take your money to Vegas. Odds are probably better!
.

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Owning a fractional share of an asset held in someone else's vault.

A dream come true.

[nolemmings]

If you want it, here it is, come and get it
Mmmmm, make your mind up fast
If you want it, any time, I can give it
But you'd better hurry 'cause it may not last
Did I hear you say that there must be a catch?
Will you walk away from a fool and his money?

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

Say it ain’t so, Pete.

oh well! i am guilty of a momentary episode of stupidity. I've done very well on the vast majority of my hobby expenditures...minus this and a rare fernando tatis card. we all make mistakes. I've learned to stay in my lane.

[nolemmings]

Sorry Pete, I didn't mean to aim my badfinger at you. Hopefully you'll at least get your money back at some point.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Sorry Pete, I didn't mean to aim my badfinger at you. Hopefully you'll at least get your money back at some point.

i believe the last time I checked my "investment" was worth about 1/2.

As Frank Fritz(RIP) used to day...a few G's ain't gonna make or break me!!!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

i believe the last time I checked my "investment" was worth about 1/2.

As Frank Fritz(RIP) used to day...a few G's ain't gonna make or break me!!!

It still sucks but a few g's wouldn't make my top 100 mistakes....

[brunswickreeves]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

Did the comic book dealer take the kids’ money and keep the book?

No, the general downside aspect of human conflict related to co-ownership

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

PT Barnum

He understood human nature, did he not?

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by brunswickreeves

No, the general downside aspect of human conflict related to co-ownership

Sure, co-ownership conflicts can be tricky. But I was aiming at a more specific scenario. Imagine if Comic Book Guy took the kids’ money and then displayed the comic without letting them ever see it again—that’s closer to what Collectable investors are experiencing. They have ownership on paper but no real control or access to their items.

[Peter_Spaeth]

So an investor in a particular item is stuck until Collectables deems it appropriate to sell the item?

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

PT Barnum

Hmmmpf, I have standards. Taking people's money to see George Washington's 161-year-old nurse is one thing; selling partial ownership in a '52 Mantle is quite another.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

oh well! i am guilty of a momentary episode of stupidity. I've done very well on the vast majority of my hobby expenditures...minus this and a rare fernando tatis card. we all make mistakes. I've learned to stay in my lane.

Some smart Wall Street guy once said "Everyone deserves to lose their shirt in the markets once in their life and learn from it." When Covid first hit and the Dow dropped to 18K, I couldn't believe watching it crawl back to 25. I thought, "every restaurant in America is going to close until they get a cure, how in the world could the markets actually be going up?" My broker couldn't answer that question and sold me--at my insistence--the worst double short ETF in history, whereupon the Dow continued to climb to 40K. I'd had enough and bailed at 30K and only lost 60% of my investment, but the lesson was priceless. I only wish I'd been smart enough to put the proceeds into vintage BB cards instead of a 1% MM fund, but who knew?

[packs]

I wouldn't invest in this venture but I'm not sure I understand the nature of some of the complaints. I don't think a fractional investor should have the authority to pressure a sale. If someone is in dire need of money and I'm not, it's not always in my best interest to sell because someone else's needs to.

[brianp-beme]

I believe this card was held hostage at one point, but its captors were willing to release him with my pennies on the dollar ransom offer.

Brian (unfortunately since the time of him being a hostage, the anguish of his captivity caused him to break down into two pieces, which was not the case when these pictures of him were taken during happier times)

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So an investor in a particular item is stuck until Collectables deems it appropriate to sell the item?

I (very) lightly dabbled in it when it first came out. There’s two main ways to get your money as far as I recall. First, after you buy your shares in a large item you can just sell your shares to other investors. If the market has gone up / others perceive the value of the piece has gone up, the price you get will be more (and, obviously, vice versa). Second, if an offer comes in on an item there is a vote on whether to accept it or not. If the vote passes, shareholders are cashed out that way. The tiny shares I bought when the market was COVID hot all seemed to go down a little, but that’s just anecdotal.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

https://www.cllct.com/sports-collect...-items-hostage

Never bought into the fractional market. I hope these investors get some money back.

Thanks for the investment tip Goof Wilson

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Leon

Stupid idea to start with.
.

BINGO...DING DING DING Winner

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

oh well! i am guilty of a momentary episode of stupidity. I've done very well on the vast majority of my hobby expenditures...minus this and a rare fernando tatis card. we all make mistakes. I've learned to stay in my lane.

ah, that's two mistakes...Sorry about that chief. ETF and Fernando Titus Jr.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

BINGO...DING DING DING Winner

It's hard to cheat an honest man.


When greed is the driver, people tend not.to use their brain.

Plus, cards just go up! You.cant lose

[ALBB]

I def like Hugh Jackman better as PT Barnum...... then PT Barnum..as PT Barnum

[ullmandds]

Oops! Apparently frank fritz...didnt die!

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

He understood human nature, did he not?

Yes he did, and evidently so do the owners of whatever the company being discussed here is called. The whole thing is too laughable for me to care enough to scroll down the thread to find it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

Yes he did, and evidently so do the owners of whatever the company being discussed here is called. The whole thing is too laughable for me to care enough to scroll down the thread to find it.

That stupid Grateful Dead line is stuck in my head now.
Shake the hand
That shook the hand
Of P.T. Barnum
and Charlie Chan

[JollyElm]

Even more pertinent to this scenario is "...one many gathers what another man spills."

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

... stupid Grateful Dead...

Yes, I also think the Grateful Dead are / were stupid.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Even more pertinent to this scenario is "...one man gathers what another man spills."

corrected it (I think)


One man's trash is another man's job to direct it into the trash truck.

Brian

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So an investor in a particular item is stuck until Collectables deems it appropriate to sell the item?

This is actually commonplace in real estate investments and independent movie production investments. The operating agreement leaves the 'investor' virtually no recourse, except as the organizing state laws may limit. Cali, for example, does not allow the management of an LLC to completely insulate itself from all fiduciary duties; that would be a license to steal. Even if there is something stinky in the potpourri, however, filing a civil case is expensive and in an ironic twist, the sued manager often can tender the defense of the case to the LLC and use its assets to pay his lawyers. What worries me about the combination of a valuable underlying asset that is controlled by management with only a small ownership stake and extraordinarily wide discretion, is exploitation, even if not illegal. It is too tempting for management to legally destroy the other investors' equity simply by continuing to operate by lending the entity the money needed: the longer the entity goes on, the more it owes to the manager for floating its operations, until the entity is either restructured to dilute the other investors' equity to nothing in order to prevent a creditor action, or the assets are sold to pay the debts. Not in any way saying that is what is happening here--I have no inside information--just that when my clients bring me deals to review that have this sort of structure I warn then not to do it because of the potential for loss of their investment.

[conor912]

Fractional ownership is going south?! Shocker.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by conor912

Fractional ownership is going south?! Shocker.

NFTs I hear as well. Another shocker

[Seven]

Originally Posted by conor912

Fractional ownership is going south?! Shocker.

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

NFTs I hear as well. Another shocker

Fellas, I just started investing in some Tullip bulbs. No way this can go wrong! Message me for more info!

[slightlyrounded]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

OMG! "Michael Brown, who owns 13% in the 1933 Babe Ruth Goudey card worth around $15,000, reached out to the new Collectable management, asking to buy out the card. The last value being $125,000, Brown said he offered $130,000. "They actually did answer," Brown said. "With a 'no.' So I said, 'OK, Can I see the card so that I can perhaps make a better offer?' I wrote them back five times. They never answered."
The only thing I ever want to own 13% of is Berkshire Hathaway!

If you're only offering a 4% buyout premium to the last traded 'market value', why would the sponsor take that seriously?.....for example, most tenders for a public company takeover (very) generally carry 20-80% premium to the last traded price.

[calvindog]

I'm always amazed that collectors fall for this huckster bullshit. The only ones who ever make any money are the owners of the companies, who then get what they can from it and disappear onto the next get rich quick scheme.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Carter08

I (very) lightly dabbled in it when it first came out. There’s two main ways to get your money as far as I recall. First, after you buy your shares in a large item you can just sell your shares to other investors. If the market has gone up / others perceive the value of the piece has gone up, the price you get will be more (and, obviously, vice versa).

Second, if an offer comes in on an item there is a vote on whether to accept it or not. If the vote passes, shareholders are cashed out that way. The tiny shares I bought when the market was COVID hot all seemed to go down a little, but that’s just anecdotal.

It looks like that 1st option is no longer available, and why anybody who put money into this should rightfully be pissed (not me LOL) at how they've been misled.

Fine print and sociopathy should not be a valid excuse to scam people IMO.....greedy victims or not.

The two biggest red flags seem to be getting glossed over here.

#1. The company as originally founded was sold off to somebody else, likely without the knowledge of the "investors" of all the memorabilia assets.

#2. This little nugget which made option 1 stated above to sell your stake impossible.

What about investors who are still actively trading the memorabilia? Well, they're not. Trading was halted in late April, when Collectable failed to file the necessary financial paperwork with the SEC.

I also don't like the fact that owner #1 cut bait and ran the second he realized this might not have been a sound financial idea, leaving all of his customers in the lurch, and then expressing concern about their predicament from a safe distance away, while owner #2 seems to have a George Costanza clone acting as an uncommunicative figurehead, while financial strip mining is going on in the background.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Starting with Brent, it seems many folks want to turn sports collectibles into Wall Street. While of course it's quite possible for an individual to do well buying and selling, it seems the gimmicks trying to turn collectibles into securities don't work and are ultimately just schemes by other people to siphon off fees.

[bk400]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Starting with Brent, it seems many folks want to turn sports collectibles into Wall Street. While of course it's quite possible for an individual to do well buying and selling, it seems the gimmicks trying to turn collectibles into securities don't work and are ultimately just schemes by other people to siphon off fees.

Agree -- collectibles and art should not be securitized.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by bk400

Agree -- collectibles and art should not be securitized.

Every day another ding dong puts "great investment" on his listing. So much for just adding a dam card to your collection. I

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by slightlyrounded

If you're only offering a 4% buyout premium to the last traded 'market value', why would the sponsor take that seriously?.....for example, most tenders for a public company takeover (very) generally carry 20-80% premium to the last traded price.

Got me!