Frederick Fotos Revisited!

[Vintagecatcher]

It's been a long time since this set or sets have been discussed. Perhaps new information has surfaced since our earlier posts.

Although the set is commonly given a 1921 date. I believe it was issued in multiple years. One of my Frederick Fotos is of Oscar Stanage, who didn't play with Sacramento until 1922. He played for Los Angeles in 1921.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...fs#post1162336

Let's see examples and also opinions on whether the large size Frederick Fotos were "proofs" on creating the actual smaller cards.

Patrick

[Leon]

I don't have too much to add except I have owned both sizes and have always thought they were just different sizes > Mark M. might know more about them. I am pretty sure we have discussed them before too.

[Rhotchkiss]

This has to be one of the earliest issued Fotos- Babe in Red Sox jersey but captioned “NY”

[Vintagecatcher]

Awesome Ruth card!

Begs the question whether the larger version may still exist!

Patrick

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Vintagecatcher

Awesome Ruth card!

Begs the question whether the larger version may still exist!

Patrick

As cool as that Ruth Frederick is, the larger version would be off the charts!

[edjs]

I still can’t find what team Griffith is playing for in this photo.

[Vintagecatcher]

Hi Ed,

Think I found your answer regarding Griffith's team on baseball reference:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/r...d=griffi002---

https://www.baseball-reference.com/r...gi?id=ab0d3e2b

Found a Griffith playing on this team in 1922.

The P. O. on the uniform is for Pawhuska Osages, (Pawhuska, OK) Western League.

Connection to the recent movie, Killers of the Flower Moon, which is about the Osage Nation in OK around 1920.

One of the managers for the team, Johnny Wufflie, does have ties to the PCL where many of the Frederick Fotos players originate from.


Patrick

[edjs]

Originally Posted by Vintagecatcher

Hi Ed,

Think I found your answer regarding Griffith's team on baseball reference:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/r...d=griffi002---

https://www.baseball-reference.com/r...gi?id=ab0d3e2b

Found a Griffith playing on this team in 1922.

The P. O. on the uniform is for Pawhuska Osages, (Pawhuska, OK) Western League.

Connection to the recent movie, Killers of the Flower Moon, which is about the Osage Nation in OK around 1920.

One of the managers for the team, Johnny Wufflie, does have ties to the PCL where many of the Frederick Fotos players originate from.


Patrick

Dude, now that’s great research. Thank you, Patrick

[edjs]

That can’t be all of them?

[Vintagecatcher]

Stands to reason that since Frederick Foto was based in Sacramento that many of the players found in the set played for Sacramento in the PCL. Also seems logical that other players playing in the Pacific Coast League could have been photographed while playing against the Sacramento team.

On the other hand, the Babe Ruth card, as well as your Griffith card seem to be outliers as the subject matter falls outside the normal PCL subjects.

I'm amazed at just how scarce any of these cards seem to be.

Were these cards produced to promote the ball players or did Frederick Foto create these photos and cards to promote their services? I suspect the latter.

Patrick

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by edjs

That can’t be all of them?

The Frederick Fotos are an awesome set of cards that are unfortunately almost non-existent and have remained beyond the reach of my greedy little collecting fingers.

I have to settle for this Frederick photo in the 1925 Zeenut set. Johnny Frederick, a dang fine player for six seasons in the majors and a member of the PCL Hall of Fame. Besides being in several other Zeenut year sets, he is also seen in the 1934 Goudey issue.

He started his PCL career in Salt Lake in 1923...I guess there is still a slim chance there is a Johnny Frederick Frederick Fotos card out there.

Brian

[rhettyeakley]

My suspicion has long been the following…

SMALL FREDERICK FOTOS: likely an insert into Candy, Gum or some other product (possibly in the Sacto area?) but once separated from the original product only the “photo credit” is left on the card and the ISSUER may well be lost to time.

LARGE FREDERICK FOTOS: proofs used to make the small cards. The large versions all came from the same find years ago and I have never seen them in a mix of other small cards in a vintage collection.


No evidence to support the first one but it makes sense.

[Leon]

Thanks for the info, Rhett. Although I have had a few of the large ones over the years, they were randomly bought. I don't have any now but this one shown was in my last collection.

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

My suspicion has long been the following…

SMALL FREDERICK FOTOS: likely an insert into Candy, Gum or some other product (possibly in the Sacto area?) but once separated from the original product only the “photo credit” is left on the card and the ISSUER may well be lost to time.

LARGE FREDERICK FOTOS: proofs used to make the small cards. The large versions all came from the same find years ago and I have never seen them in a mix of other small cards in a vintage collection.


No evidence to support the first one but it makes sense.