#16 Dwight Gooden

[bk400]

Number is going to be retired by the Mets. Good on Stevie Cohen for remembering the guys who got it done before the Mets started to suck. Prime Dwight Gooden is the best starting pitcher in the history of the game.

If I had to pick one guy the start Game 7, it would be the 1985 version of Dr K. Nolan Ryan -- whatever. Randy Johnson -- whatever. Dwight Gooden was the Lawrence Taylor of baseball.

[Shoeless Moe]

Who did more coke Gooden or Taylor?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Didn't Pedro have the best season ever relative to the rest of the league?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Who did more coke Gooden or Taylor?

I would guess Taylor. Gooden seemed like he done more because he wasn't as good at controlling it.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by bk400

Number is going to be retired by the Mets. Good on Stevie Cohen for remembering the guys who got it done before the Mets started to suck. Prime Dwight Gooden is the best starting pitcher in the history of the game.

If I had to pick one guy the start Game 7, it would be the 1985 version of Dr K. Nolan Ryan -- whatever. Randy Johnson -- whatever. Dwight Gooden was the Lawrence Taylor of baseball.

That would be Walter Johnson for me.

In 1913, Johnson was 36-7 with a 1.14 ERA. His WAR of 15.1 that season is the best single-season total for any pitcher in the modern era (post 1900). Johnson's 13.2 WAR in 1912 is second on that list.

Or Bob Gibson.

In 1968 he went 22-9 with a sparkling ERA of 1.12 to go along with 268 strikeouts, 13 shutouts, 15 consecutive wins and a stretch of 95 innings in which he gave up just two runs.

And a card.
-

[G1911]

Radbourn in 1884 is the obvious real answer. 205 ERA+ over 678 innings is far and away the most valuable pitching season.

Pedro in 2000 with a 1.74 ERA. 2nd in the league that year was Roger Clemens with a 3.70, 2 runs higher.

[Snapolit1]

Never saw a more dominant pitcher than Gooden when he first came up. It was like he was supposed to be in a higher league that didn’t exist. When you see footage of him striking out the side it’s almost comical. Never saw major league look so helpless.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Never saw a more dominant pitcher than Gooden when he first came up. It was like he was supposed to be in a higher league that didn’t exist. When you see footage of him striking out the side it’s almost comical. Never saw major league look so helpless.

WHIP
Pedro 2000 0.737
Gooden 1985 0.965
'
You were saying?

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

WHIP
Pedro 2000 0.737
Gooden 1985 0.965
'
You were saying?

Apparently the Mets fan were coked up as well.

[Eric72]

There are plenty of stats to support the notion that other pitchers in their prime were better than Doc in his prime. I saw Gooden with my own eyes, though. Not through a camera lens, not on a stat sheet. I saw Gooden pitch in person.

It still stands out as the most impressive display of pitching I've ever witnessed. I was in a lower level seat (200 level, Veteran's Stadium) on the third base side. I had the perfect vantage point to watch each pitch from pitcher's hand to catcher's mitt. The combination of speed and movement made it difficult to even track the ball with my eyes. I could only imagine trying to hit the damn thing.

Yes, he had short peak. Yes, he had some off-the-field issues. Still, Dwight Gooden was one hell of a pitcher.

I wouldn't call him the all-time best ever; however, the Mets retiring his number makes sense to me.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Apparently the Mets fan were coked up as well.

No question it was an amazing season and no question that when he came on the scene it was an astonishing thing to see. That said, peak Pedro was better.

[cgjackson222]

During the same ceremony they will also be retiring Darryl Strawberry's #18.

Strawberry had the one of the sweetest swings ever. I'll never forget when he hit a home run at Shea that traveled so far that it a moving train. Couldn't find a video of that, but here are some others.

Game 7 of the 1986 World Series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjfJJUqPF0g

Blast off the roof of Expos' Olympic Stadium: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3sdYKj_VHc

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

During the same ceremony they will also be retiring Darryl Strawberry's #18.

Strawberry had the one of the sweetest swings ever. I'll never forget when he hit a home run at Shea that traveled so far that it a moving train. Couldn't find a video of that, but here are some others.

Game 7 of the 1986 World Series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjfJJUqPF0g

Blast off the roof of Expos' Olympic Stadium: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3sdYKj_VHc

His swing was a thing of beauty. He and Gooden both so underachieved.

[stlcardsfan]

Originally Posted by bk400

Number is going to be retired by the Mets. Good on Stevie Cohen for remembering the guys who got it done before the Mets started to suck. Prime Dwight Gooden is the best starting pitcher in the history of the game.

If I had to pick one guy the start Game 7, it would be the 1985 version of Dr K. Nolan Ryan -- whatever. Randy Johnson -- whatever. Dwight Gooden was the Lawrence Taylor of baseball.

John Tudor out dueled him in late September 1985. 1-0 in 10 innings. Allowing Cards to win division. .

[bk400]

Obviously, a bit of bravado, homerism, and light-heartedness in my original post.

This said, I will double down and say that prime Dwight Gooden with his 86 era teammates crushes all comers. Including and especially prime Pedro and the Red Sox.

The coke was part of the juice for the Gooden / Strawberry / Keith Hernandez era Mets.

On a more serious note, I heard from a local (sports card) dealer that Dr K is a great guy but still struggles with addiction. I hope that's not true.

[bk400]

Originally Posted by stlcardsfan

John Tudor out dueled him in late September 1985. 1-0 in 10 innings. Allowing Cards to win division. .

Well, I'd argue that they dueled to a draw. Jesse Orosco came in in the 10th and game up a home run, which was the ultimate winning run. Gooden was pulled after 9 shut out innings.

[ClementeFanOh]

bk400- I caught the light hearted nature of your original post. As someone
who was never a Mets fan, I agree that Doc was like a comet in his most
impactful years. His 1985 season was incredible. However, I wouldn't say he
was the "best" even during his prime. On the other hand, wasn't it Vision in
an Avengers movie who said, "A thing isn't beautiful because it lasts"?

Although it wasn't part of your original post, I'll go down swinging against any
claims of Daryl Strawberry's excellence. My favorite memory of that clown
was Tracy Jones of the Reds coldcocking him during a fight THAT was rich!

Trent King

[jp1216]

And a card. I've always liked his '85 Donruss Box Bottom. Don't recall ever seeing it until the 90s - but it's a classic - to me. I imagine him looking up at a LaGuardia plane taking off and testing his arm strength...

[packs]

I missed Doc in his prime but he came to the Yankees while I was an autograph runt hanging out on the old barriers outside the stadium waiting for players to come into the stadium from the parking lot. Doc was always good for an autograph. Really generous with his time and always a fan favorite even with the Yankees.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by stlcardsfan

John Tudor out dueled him in late September 1985. 1-0 in 10 innings. Allowing Cards to win division. .

Loosing to Tudor in 1985, especially from June 8th on, was nothing to be ashamed of.

Much like Jake Arrieta years later, Tudor had a legendary finish to his season:


18W-1L with NINE Shutouts!!


FYI: (Arrieta in from August 1, 2015 through end of regular season was 11W-0L, 0.33ERA with a No-Hitter)


.

[bk400]

Dwight Gooden's speech at his number retirement ceremony. Humility, regret, gratitude. Clear as day under the rain at Shea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTSSuLq98UU

Dwight Gooden's popularity outstrips his career performance by a lot. You can see it reflected in the sales prices of his 1984 Topps Traded rookie cards. The football analogue is probably Mark Bavaro. The basketball one might be Charles Oakley.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by bk400

Dwight Gooden's speech at his number retirement ceremony. Humility, regret, gratitude. Clear as day under the rain at Shea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTSSuLq98UU

Dwight Gooden's popularity outstrips his career performance by a lot. You can see it reflected in the sales prices of his 1984 Topps Traded rookie cards. The football analogue is probably Mark Bavaro. The basketball one might be Charles Oakley.

My take on it is that he repeatedly stuck his thumb in Met's front offices' collective eye. Especially his dig about winning a World Series with the Yankees.

[toothcutter]

Originally Posted by bk400

Number is going to be retired by the Mets. Good on Stevie Cohen for remembering the guys who got it done before the Mets started to suck. Prime Dwight Gooden is the best starting pitcher in the history of the game.

If I had to pick one guy the start Game 7, it would be the 1985 version of Dr K. Nolan Ryan -- whatever. Randy Johnson -- whatever. Dwight Gooden was the Lawrence Taylor of baseball.

Ya'll smoking funny stuff..Doc k?? Please..El Duque was the best of all time

[JeremyW]

Couldn't resist this one in the latest REA. The kid was amazing those first few years.

[Pat R]

I'm not an autograph collector but in December 2019 there was a "buying extravaganza" at a casino close to where we live and Gooden, Ed Kranepool and Ron Swoboda were there signing autographs.
It was actually my wife (Yankee fan) that saw the add in a local paper and talked me (Met fan) into going and I was glad we did.

I don't know if it was poor advertising, the time of year, the fact that they were only buying or a combination
but only a few people showed up and by a few I'm talking maybe 10 people in the hour or more that we were there.

There was a small buffet with bagels, desserts and coffee set up and the three of them were at a cafeteria style table for the signing.
Since it was so slow my wife and I grabbed coffee and sat right across from them and chatted with them for at least 45 minutes.
All three were very pleasant but I'm sure that they were probably bored out of there minds I think two other people stopped for autographs while we were there.

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[sports-cards-forever]

No greater sin than wasted talent....