Funny - BVG response on holder with invalid serial #...

[jchcollins]

So, you all may be well aware of this - I wasn't:

Beckett / BGS / BVG policy on "old" holders (older than 15 years, anyway):

Apparently, they have absolutely nothing to do with them.

I sent the folks at Beckett an email earlier today. One of my recent pickups was an upgrade to my '69 Topps Reggie Jackson RC. My SGC 2.5 was ok for the grade, but my LCS recently bought a collection that had a very nice and bright BVG 4.5 copy of the same card, in an old holder. The holder is so old, that it includes subgrades along with the cert on the back - which I know from experience occurred briefly during the early 2000's. Maybe they stopped in 2005 or so, I'm not sure - but there aren't a ton of BVG holders where the cards have subgrades. To me when looking at this one at the shop, this was even cooler - the subgrades were neat - and pointed to the fact that corner and not surface wear was the reason the card got a 4.5 and not like a 7. Ok cool - all checks out and the price was right - so I took it home with me.

A few days later I got kind of bored I guess, so I decided to lookup the cert number on the Beckett website to see exactly how old the grade / slab was. Through no combination - searching BGS, searching BVG - including leading zeroes, leaving them off - could I get any card info. to pop up. It just kept saying invalid cert. (I later read that this problem is apparently incredibly common with old Beckett slabs). So today - I emailed their customer service about this - and they were both surprisingly quick and definitive in their response:

Because "grading standards have changed" and the card was graded "more than 15 years ago" - both the grade and the cert are now considered invalid. Please send us the card, and we will regrade / reslab for you.

Um, what now?

Beckett is in worse shape as an organization than I thought. I had a few more exchanges with the rep (who did not have a great command of the english language...) and quickly got the point. I'm not sure if it would have been offered at some point for them to regrade for free - but she sent me forms with pricing on them.

I guess I would have understood, if still have been somewhat less than thrilled if they fessed up honestly to a database error, or losing cert numbers or something - but to not stand behind your product at all is pretty piss poor, if you ask me. I had a '61 Mantle a few years ago in an SGC 5.5 that was a nice card, but the slab was ancient and carrying a lot of patina. I looked it up on the SGC website and it had been graded in 2001! Anyway, as you might imagine I packed this card up, sent it in to SGC for a reholder, and was given one with the same grade with no questions asked. Oh, but "grading standards have changed, all the graders do this..." Is that right BVG?

Any similar experiences? I just find it a bit off-putting. I wouldn't have sent the card back to Beckett anyway, but jeez. Certainly won't be giving them any business now.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

I had a '61 Mantle a few years ago in an SGC 5.5 that was a nice card, but the slab was ancient and carrying a lot of patina. I looked it up on the SGC website and it had been graded in 2001! Anyway, as you might imagine I packed this card up, sent it in to SGC for a reholder, and was given one with the same grade with no questions asked.

Was this pre-tuxedo/new ownership? Because SGC nowadays has told people they don't stand behind prior ownership group grades.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Was this pre-tuxedo/new ownership? Because SGC nowadays has told people they don't stand behind prior ownership group grades.

Not sure who owned SGC in 2001. I want to say it was the "green label" tux.

[gonefishin]

Hey John, Jim Hoskins here. The same thing happened to me last year. I looked up a card that I have had for several years, a 1948 Bowman Braun rookie that was graded in 2002 as a 6.5. I couldn't find the serial number any where in the Beckett data base. I contacted Beckett and they told me that back when they redesigned their data base a lot of serial numbers were deleted, messed up, etc., in the transfer. I was told that I could send it back for no charge, but they would regrade the card when it went into the new slab. I told them I didn't want the card regraded, just the corrected serial number. Below is the email I received from them.

Hello,

Please use the form attached for the card that needs to be assigned a new serial no.

Thanks,


Jay Ryan Donayre
Beckett Grading Services
jdonayre@beckett.com
972-448-9188

2700 Summit Ave, Ste 100
Plano, TX 75074
beckett.com

There was form attached to the email for submission.

Of course, I knew they were going to regrade it regardless of what I said. I elected not to resubmit the card.

I haven't done business with Beckett since and probably won't in the future. I also thought, how crappy is that. I just was the correct serial number.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by gonefishin

I was told that I could send it back for no charge, but they would regrade the card when it went into the new slab.

Very interesting. This lady continues to come back at me, so I have asked some more questions. Basically, Beckett is refusing to stand behind this slab at all. They want me to pay for "reholdering" (which yes, includes regrading).

Pretty easy decision as if I get it reslabbed at all, it would be going to SGC - but the whole thing to me is kind of unbelievable that they won't stand behind it at all if I'm trying to maintain the original cert #. The slab is somewhere between 15 and 20 years old. Both PSA and SGC WILL reholder cards like this the large majority of the time, because they haven't lost the database info.

[jchcollins]

Just for s&g, this is the slab in question.

What do this slab and iOS 14 have in common? That's right, they are both NO LONGER SUPPORTED by the OEM!

I actually think this slab looks pretty darn good for being so ancient and decrepit, but what do I know...





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[mikemb]

I have a 1977 Topps Nolan Ryan I had graded by BVG in the early 2000s. In 2013 I realized the serial number di not exist. I wrote them and this is the response I got:


RE: Serial Numbers
Yahoo
/
Michael

Customer Service (Beckett)

To: mike

Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 3:06 PM

Hi Michael,

You can send in the card to have a new serial number assigned. If you are currently sending in orders for grading, you can include it with your next order with a note on the card “assign new serial #”.. we of course will not charge for this.

Sincerely,

BGS Customer Service


I never sent the card in. Probably get a difference response today.

I have been using SGC to grade over the last few years.

Mike

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by mikemb

I never sent the card in. Probably get a difference response today.

I have been using SGC to grade over the last few years.

Mike

Thanks all for the responses. So yeah, at best what my customer service rep is telling me is inconsistent with how they have treated others in the past. I wish any of this surprised me at this point. Seems that Beckett has fairly earned their designation as at best, the least of the big 3 graders anymore. I've never sent them any business personally - that appears to have been the correct decision.

[jchcollins]

Just to put wraps on this - I spoke to a different Beckett representative this morning on Facebook chat - and they confirmed that yes, they no longer stand behind this slab from however many years ago. The first rep told me that it was because “standards have changed”, while this one insinuated that the slab might have been dropped or damaged and they would simply have to validate that the grade was still correct. Subtle maybe, but two different things.

I would have been happy to have paid for a reholder had the serial # been deemed valid, or had they even admitted to just flat out losing data - which seems to have been what actually happened. But since the problem (I have a very nice slab still) seems to be totally on Beckett’s end, I would have expected them to have done that for free. Maybe that is asking too much.

I will probably leave this card in the “invalid” slab for a bit, might bust it and get SGC to grade it at the National next year in Cleveland.

Oy…


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[steve B]

I'd have just kept it in the old slab.

[mikemb]

I'll probably send mine to SGC. It is a card I want to sell. That is what alerted me to the problem. I was going to list it on ebay but when I checked the serial number, it was wrong so I put it aside.

Mike

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by steve B

I'd have just kept it in the old slab.

It is. I will keep it that way for some time, probably. It is just stupid to me that they will not validate the serial number without going through the process again. In the final analysis it’s not a huge deal, but it is crappy customer service.


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