Anyone slab/grade S81 silks?

[Hankphenom]

PSA? SGC? Bueller?

[realbigfatdog]

PSA does not grade them. Not sure about Beckett. SGC does grade them, but they can be wildly inconsistent.

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[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by realbigfatdog

PSA does not grade them. Not sure about Beckett. SGC does grade them, but they can be wildly inconsistent.

Thanks, but those are S74s. I was asking about the larger S81 silks.

[Baseball Rarities]

SGC has graded some in the past. Not sure if they do anymore, but it is definitely worth checking in with them.

[realbigfatdog]

Lol, duh. Sorry, my bad.

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[ricktmd]

I had an S81 Home Run Baker I sent to an auction house who sent it to SGC. Even though it had a horizontal tear, SGC gave it a 2 and it did well in the auction. I think a numeric grade always adds value. In this case the silk was encapsulated protecting it from tearing further. Getting a 2 was fortunate so it was a win all the way around. Protecting the silk was great so it wouldnt tear further. I do agree SGC's criteria for S74 silks is wildly inconsistent due to the downgrade on the factory fold and ignoring fraying which by most collectors' standards is the most important criteria on silks. I am not sure but suspect they would have the same inconsistencies on the larger S81s. A beautiful set for sure. Here is the Baker before encapsulation. The crease on the right middle was actually a separation (the tear I refer too) and there was also a tack hole bottom left. I had most of the set so if you have any questions send me an email or PM . I would be happy to share my experiences. As mentioned, if you post the items, you may get more replies as SGC does grade S81 silks.

[nolemmings]

Yes, SGC grades them. Here is one of a few that sold in an REA just a couple of months ago:

[nolemmings]

Another from the same auction

[Hankphenom]

Thanks, Rick, great information and photos. How many are in the set and how close did you get to completion? Did you have a WaJo? Here is mine, which I had framed about 25 years ago. As I recall, it had a little more fraying at the top and bottom than the ones pictured, but does have a gorgeous silky sheen to it, which is not true of most of the S81s I've seen. As a big fan of these--one of my favorite WaJos issues, for sure, I've always wondered about that, why so many have more of a matt finish than a silky one. Do you have any clue why that would be the case? Lastly, assuming mine would get a numerical grade, could you give a guess as to value? Thanks again, Hank.

[nolemmings]

Sorry Hank, the ones I showed are not mine and I do not collect them. I just remembered that I saw them recently and looked at the REA auction. Here is the Old Cardboard site with the gallery showing all 25 baseball subjects.

https://oldcardboard.com/o/s/s81/s81.asp?cardsetID=1077

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Sorry Hank, the ones I showed are not mine and I do not collect them. I just remembered that I saw them recently and looked at the REA auction. Here is the Old Cardboard site with the gallery showing all 25 baseball subjects.

Sorry, Todd, I was confused, an all too common occurrence these days! Thanks for the link, though, that's fabulous!

[bigfanNY]

I think that S81's are near the top of Most Beautiful baseball items issued. This is my Evers. I was aware that zSGC began grading these a few years ago. But I am hesitant to seal one up. My Dad had an Alexander ( One of the nicest in the set IMO) and had it framed. Displayed it in an interior room that was kept dark most of the time. However the colors somehow began attaching to the glass of the frame. It was removed from frame.
I dont look at it often but certainly enjoy it when I do.

[ricktmd]

Hi Hank,

I had over half the set . 15 total of the 25 to completion. All that I have left now are Alexander and Johnson. I found a group of 9 that were folded in half about 15 years ago. I often see ones I once owned in auctions with the fold. All had the sheen you were talking about. The sheen can dissipate if the item is subjected to being in the light a lot. The 9 I found with the fold were in a guys fathers filing cabinet all folded in half but looking great otherwise. I not sure SGC's criteria on anything and certainly not S81 silks or for that matter S74 silks. It is also hard to tell from your scan as I dont think I see all the edges. Feel free to send me an email and check out our tribute site to www.S74Silk.com . It does mention the larger silks as well

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by ricktmd

Hi Hank, I had over half the set . 15 total of the 25 to completion. All that I have left now are Alexander and Johnson. I found a group of 9 that were folded in half about 15 years ago. I often see ones I once owned in auctions with the fold. All had the sheen you were talking about. The sheen can dissipate if the item is subjected to being in the light a lot. The 9 I found with the fold were in a guys fathers filing cabinet all folded in half but looking great otherwise. I not sure SGC's criteria on anything and certainly not S81 silks or for that matter S74 silks. It is also hard to tell from your scan as I dont think I see all the edges. Feel free to send me an email and check out our tribute site to. It does mention the larger silks as well

Thanks, Rick, I had mine framed so long ago, I don't remember what the top and bottom were like except that there was fraying to both, I'm guessing it looked something like your Alexander, all there but with fraying, and who knows what the TPAs would do with that, they probably don't know until they do it! Your WaJo looks like the ones I'm talking about without the silky sheen, but that could easily be the light. Your Alex is gorgeous, except for the fold, which I would never, ever, try to iron. Thanks again, Hank.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by bigfanNY

I think that S81's are near the top of Most Beautiful baseball items issued. This is my Evers. I was aware that zSGC began grading these a few years ago. But I am hesitant to seal one up. My Dad had an Alexander ( One of the nicest in the set IMO) and had it framed. Displayed it in an interior room that was kept dark most of the time. However the colors somehow began attaching to the glass of the frame. It was removed from frame.
I dont look at it often but certainly enjoy it when I do.

Thanks, Jonathan, I agree completely about the beauty of the S81s, an incredibly undervalued issue IMO. That's a shame about your dad's Alex, I'm assuming he didn't have it matted like mine. I love looking at it every day on my office wall, my favorite WaJo of them all.

[ctownboy]

Here is my only S81, an Ed Walsh that I traded for about 30 years ago.

I store it in a safe deposit box but am always scared I am not storing it in a way that will preserve it.

At first, I had it in some regular plastic sheets but was afraid they might some how get too hot and melt on the silk or that they might leach some chemicals that would harm or destroy the silk.

I next just put it between two pieces of construction paper but then removed it because I was afraid the acid in the paper might damage or destroy the silk.

Now, I just have it laying flat on top of another large silk which is on top of some cards in card holders. Is that good enough?

Next, is there any idea of how many silks are still in existence? I know there are more Matty silks than all the others but how many of the rest are there? Less than 10 each?

Thank you,

David

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by ctownboy

Here is my only S81, an Ed Walsh that I traded for about 30 years ago. I store it in a safe deposit box but am always scared I am not storing it in a way that will preserve it. At first, I had it in some regular plastic sheets but was afraid they might some how get too hot and melt on the silk or that they might leach some chemicals that would harm or destroy the silk.I next just put it between two pieces of construction paper but then removed it because I was afraid the acid in the paper might damage or destroy the silk. Now, I just have it laying flat on top of another large silk which is on top of some cards in card holders. Is that good enough? Next, is there any idea of how many silks are still in existence? I know there are more Matty silks than all the others but how many of the rest are there? Less than 10 each? Thank you, David

It's probably OK out of the way of sunlight, water, excessive heat or humidity, or any other factor that could render it further damage, but you might also consider getting it slabbed, that would relieve you of worry and also allow you to put it up somewhere you could see it. It will probably get a "1", but who cares? I can't speak for the rarity of the issue as a whole, but I have been aware of the existence of a handful or so WaJos in the forty + years I've been paying attention. I actually had two of them at one time, the prettiest of which I got framed as you can see above. I would hazard a guess of the existence of between 5 and 10 of most, with a few more Mattys due to the find of some years ago. Nearly impossible to find in top condition, as the fragile silk made them vulnerable to the condition issues visible in your Walsh, and others. A really great and beautiful set, which should bring a substantial premium over the T3 cards, IMO, but cards rule, the market says.

[TheBig6]

I know there was a small find of Matty’s a long time ago, but it’s one of my favorites in my collection. Does anybody know how many were in the find?

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by TheBig6

I know there was a small find of Matty’s a long time ago, but it’s one of my favorites in my collection. Does anybody know how many were in the find?

I, too, would love to know the circumstances of the find, which I've only heard referred to from time to time without specifics. I doubt it was very large, perhaps ten or so based on the fact that they do seem to pop up more than the others and in better shape, but it's not like you see one in every auction.

[TheBig6]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

I, too, would love to know the circumstances of the find, which I've only heard referred to from time to time without specifics. I doubt it was very large, perhaps ten or so based on the fact that they do seem to pop up more than the others and in better shape, but it's not like you see one in every auction.

Yes, I seem to recall talk that it just a small amount that was found. 10 or so is probably in the ballpark. No pun intended.