Buying vintage cards at the National

[Fall1963]

I've been a viewer of this board, and enjoy reading posts. But thought I'd ask a question and see if some of you are dealers, or at minimum, would have a good grasp on how this works. If I were to go after a $15,000-$20,000 card for example, what would be a reasonable way to buy at the National? All cash which is dangerous to carry around? Credit card (mine only goes to $15,000)? Checks? Combination? I would guess that cash would get the best deal. Just looking for knowledgeable input. Thank you.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by Fall1963

I've been a viewer of this board, and enjoy reading posts. But thought I'd ask a question and see if some of you are dealers, or at minimum, would have a good grasp on how this works. If I were to go after a $15,000-$20,000 card for example, what would be a reasonable way to buy at the National? All cash which is dangerous to carry around? Credit card (mine only goes to $15,000)? Checks? Combination? I would guess that cash would get the best deal. Just looking for knowledgeable input. Thank you.

I can't say I've been in the same situation with making that level of a purchase, but I do know many dealers take virtual forms of payment in person whether it be something like Paypal, Venmo, Zelle, etc. I would not feel comfortable carrying around 15K in Bills.

[Snowman]

Another reason that the National should be held in Vegas every year. It is MUCH safer to walk around the casinos in Vegas with tens of thousands of dollars in cash than it is pretty much anywhere else in the country. Especially Chicago.

[The Detroit Collector]

I agree walking around with that type of money is nerve wracking. I will say this, CASH IS KING. Some dealers would even be willing to lower a price if it is all cash. One thing you can do, if you dont like walking around with that kind of money is researching to see if your bank is located near the convention center. If there is something you like which is expensive, you can ask the dealer to put it aside and go to the nearest bank to take out the money.
It would also be smart to walk around with a backpack, or even a card holder locked case which you could put cash in.

Next best option aside from cash is Venmo, CashApp, Paypal. Make sure you are setup with those.

[EddieP]

Originally Posted by The Detroit Collector

I agree walking around with that type of money is nerve wracking. I will say this, CASH IS KING. Some dealers would even be willing to lower a price if it is all cash. One thing you can do, if you dont like walking around with that kind of money is researching to see if your bank is located near the convention center. If there is something you like which is expensive, you can ask the dealer to put it aside and go to the nearest bank to take out the money.
It would also be smart to walk around with a backpack, or even a card holder locked case which you could put cash in.

Next best option aside from cash is Venmo, CashApp, Paypal. Make sure you are setup with those.

That’s pretty dangerous. “ Jugging” is on the rise.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...se/ar-AA1cz52D

[mrreality68]

The reality is many dealers only take cash.

Others will take Venmo and stuff but you need to hope the reception is good to be able to do the transaction

Last year in Vegas I spent all my cash then I wanted to do Venmo and luckily it was a good sale for the dealer because we had to go outside of the main room and close to the windows to get reception to do the deal.

Checks are not accepted by many unless they know you or know someone that they trust that can validate who you are.

Last year I also did a deal via check and luckily the dealer and I both knew one of the auction house people that I have done business with

And scary or not I saw a transaction go down for over $150k in cash at the National last year

[Jewish-collector]

If your bank branch is near the convention center, you could have the dealer personally meet you in the lobby of that bank at a specified day & time. For that amount of a sale, the dealer will say: "Sometimes you just gotta say WTF" and do it

[Exhibitman]

Bring your cash but use some common sense. If you are not familiar with how to handle yourself in a city on the street, there are a few rules:

Get your face out of your phone. If you are staring at a screen you are a sitting duck.

Do not walk out of a bank with cash in hand. The teller will put it into an envelope. Store it before you walk away. Don't walk out either. Call a ride and wait for it. If the bank has security, ask them to walk you out to the waiting car at the curb because of the cash.

Keep only a few hundred in your wallet. Keep the rest in a money belt. If you need to replenish your cash grab a stall in the bathroom and do it there.

If you have a large sum waiting for a special card, consider leaving the money in the hotel's main safe in a sealed envelope. You can always go back and get it. Give the dealer a deposit with what you have and go get your funds. Again, get a ride rather than walking from the hotel to the convention center.

Never ever flash your bankroll. Don't talk about what you have on you. Assume someone with bad intentions is watching and listening.

Assuming your wallet will get stolen, leave all of your extraneous stuff in the hotel main safe or in your room safe if the items are not valuable but you need them to get home (like your ID for the flight). Carry a relatively small amount of cash, one credit card, and maybe one ATM card and that's it. Minimize the damage of getting ripped off. Get a second wallet that has a chain or otherwise attaches to your pants and put some more cash in there, maybe what you need for the day. Hide that one away. If you get jacked, hand over the regular wallet.

If you plan to make a major cash purchase, ask the dealer if you can come behind the table to do it, turn your back to the crowd and try to find somewhere shielded to pull out the money. Many dealers have gigantic safes or other displays that create a shelter from prying eyes.

Don't flash that new expensive card. Don't brag about it either. Assume someone is listening.

[The Detroit Collector]

Originally Posted by EddieP

That’s pretty dangerous. “ Jugging” is on the rise.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...se/ar-AA1cz52D

Good thing the national is not in San Antonio. That's why you go inside with that type of money.

[ValKehl]

I'm an old geezer with bad knees who would have no chance fighting off or escaping from a mugger, so I bring very little cash with me to the National or any other show. When a dealer is understandably unwilling to accept my check because I am not known to him, I will:
- Ask said dealer if he will accept a reference from another dealer or two that know(s) me, and/or
- Ask said dealer if he will ship my purchase to me after my check clears. This sometimes results in paying a shipping cost, but I prefer this to the risk of losing a pile of $$.
I have not yet had both of these approaches fail me and not be able make a desired purchase.

[Snapolit1]

I think a fair number of dealers will take venmo, pay pal, or some other banking service. Maybe not for a whale of a card.

[notfast]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Bring your cash but use some common sense. If you are not familiar with how to handle yourself in a city on the street, there are a few rules:

Get your face out of your phone. If you are staring at a screen you are a sitting duck.

Do not walk out of a bank with cash in hand. The teller will put it into an envelope. Store it before you walk away. Don't walk out either. Call a ride and wait for it. If the bank has security, ask them to walk you out to the waiting car at the curb because of the cash.

Keep only a few hundred in your wallet. Keep the rest in a money belt. If you need to replenish your cash grab a stall in the bathroom and do it there.

If you have a large sum waiting for a special card, consider leaving the money in the hotel's main safe in a sealed envelope. You can always go back and get it. Give the dealer a deposit with what you have and go get your funds. Again, get a ride rather than walking from the hotel to the convention center.

Never ever flash your bankroll. Don't talk about what you have on you. Assume someone with bad intentions is watching and listening.

Assuming your wallet will get stolen, leave all of your extraneous stuff in the hotel main safe or in your room safe if the items are not valuable but you need them to get home (like your ID for the flight). Carry a relatively small amount of cash, one credit card, and maybe one ATM card and that's it. Minimize the damage of getting ripped off. Get a second wallet that has a chain or otherwise attaches to your pants and put some more cash in there, maybe what you need for the day. Hide that one away. If you get jacked, hand over the regular wallet.

If you plan to make a major cash purchase, ask the dealer if you can come behind the table to do it, turn your back to the crowd and try to find somewhere shielded to pull out the money. Many dealers have gigantic safes or other displays that create a shelter from prying eyes.

Don't flash that new expensive card. Don't brag about it either. Assume someone is listening.

Great advice here.

Cash is always king and a lot of people will be walking around with way more money than you. People will have millions of dollars are cards tucked in a backpack and hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash in a crossbody bag.

Don’t make yourself a target or put yourself in a bad situation and you will be fine.

Remember, Rosemont IS NOT the crime ridden sh*thole that the majority of Chicago is.

[Snapolit1]

The majority of Chicago is not a sh*hole.

Originally Posted by notfast

Great advice here.

Cash is always king and a lot of people will be walking around with way more money than you. People will have millions of dollars are cards tucked in a backpack and hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash in a crossbody bag.

Don’t make yourself a target or put yourself in a bad situation and you will be fine.

Remember, Rosemont IS NOT the crime ridden sh*thole that the majority of Chicago is.

[Jewish-collector]

Originally Posted by notfast

People will have millions of dollars are cards tucked in a backpack and hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash in a crossbody bag.

Millions of dollars of cards tucked in their backpacks ? Really ? I don't think so, but we can agree to disagree.

[trambo]

I take cash with the amount I expect to spend plus a little more just in case. I've never felt unsafe carrying around the amount(s) I've carried any of the times I've been to a show at the convention center in Rosemont. Others may have a different experience, of course, but for me, I think if you're not out there flashing cash around, you'll be fine.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Another reason that the National should be held in Vegas every year. It is MUCH safer to walk around the casinos in Vegas with tens of thousands of dollars in cash than it is pretty much anywhere else in the country. Especially Chicago.

Or Ontario, CA was good place for a jacking. Anaheim should be OK once inside. Keyword: Once inside

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

I'm an old geezer with bad knees who would have no chance fighting off or escaping from a mugger, so I bring very little cash with me to the National or any other show. When a dealer is understandably unwilling to accept my check because I am not known to him, I will:
- Ask said dealer if he will accept a reference from another dealer or two that know(s) me, and/or
- Ask said dealer if he will ship my purchase to me after my check clears. This sometimes results in paying a shipping cost, but I prefer this to the risk of losing a pile of $$.
I have not yet had both of these approaches fail me and not be able make a desired purchase.

I have always written checks for deals on Net 54 and to other dealers. They can hold the check if they want but most don't if you have any reputation. Kiting a check is punishable by 3 times the amount and 1 year in jail here. I will probably try the cash method in Anaheim, if I go. Haven't been to a show since 91. You can't spend the cash nowadays.

[A2000]

If you’re carrying large quantities of cash and driving a long distance to the National, I’d be more worried about this:

https://nebraskapublicmedia.org/en/n...hem-of-crimes/

The area around the convention center and local hotels is very safe during the day. Wouldn’t want to carry too much cash and walk around after dark but that would apply to everywhere there are convention centers.

One thing for sure is, rosemont is infinitely safer than Atlantic City!

[Yoda]

After having had my pocket picked at the Nat'l in Cleveland several years, losing about 4k in cash, credit card, passport, drivers license etc., I now carry a money belt securely fastened under my shirt, which if nothing else gives me confidence at the Big Show. I was the perfect target, drooling over a nice E95 Matty, trying to do a deal with the dealer, totally distracted. I would be always aware of my surroundings when talking to a dealer, particularly if someone is just a little too close for comfort. These perps often work in pairs: one distracts and the other picks.

You can rest assured that the Center will be seriously crowded, bumping and shoving is to be expected. You can be certain that thieves, scammers, grifters and hookers will see Chicago as a rich environment. Be on your toes and don't have an experience like mine.

[Exhibitman]

Not hookers. If they show up the first night, they never come back. Like any card collector is going to waste the price of a pretty good card on that. As the old joke goes (or would at the National):

A hooker approaches a convention-goer and offers to do anything he wants for $250. "OK," the man says, "find me a T206 Cobb with decent centering, wide borders and clean surfaces." For those who don't know it, the original she'll do anything he wants for $250 as long as he says it in three words. His response: "paint my house."

[Jewish-collector]

Here's what you do. From the dollar store, get a wallet and play money. Make it real thick with the play money bills. Put it in your back pocket as usual. (Your real money is in your money belt as Yoda describes). Remember to add the note in with the play money, "Sometimes you just gotta say WTF." beer chug.gif

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

And scary or not I saw a transaction go down for over $150k in cash at the National last year

I guess times have changed since the last National Convention I attended over 20 years ago, when oohs and aahs came from those nearby when I proceeded to thumb out a series of two, possibly three $20 bills from a stack of ten or so to purchase the vintage card I could not leave the show without.

Brian

[Yoda]

I recently read an interesting article about the Billions of dollars that were syphoned off from the Federal gov't for Covid relief. I wonder if this has been a factor in the sharp uptick in card prices. My guess yes and how.

[timn1]

+1

You can't believe everything you read...

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

The majority of Chicago is not a sh*hole.

[bmattioli]

If you need to ask advice on how to carry around large sums of cash at a large event perhaps you should not even try it..

[MikeGarcia]

Originally Posted by bmattioli

If you need to ask advice on how to carry around large sums of cash at a large event perhaps you should not even try it..

Dress like Bob DeNiro's Travis Bickel in " Taxi Driver" , including the Mohawk. ; nobody will mess with you. Security might follow you around though..

..

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Yoda

I recently read an interesting article about the Billions of dollars that were syphoned off from the Federal gov't for Covid relief. I wonder if this has been a factor in the sharp uptick in card prices. My guess yes and how.

Somewhat related fun fact:

Student loan payments on federal student loans are scheduled to start up again in September. Although estimates vary, the monthly amount of those payments could be as high as $10B across the entire country. Monthly! While it might feel like all $10B of that extra spending money is going into cardboard every month, there’s no question that there will be a lot less spending money for some people starting soon.

[Fall1963]

That wasn't my question at all.

[MikeGarcia]

Originally Posted by Fall1963

That wasn't my question at all.

.. Welcome to the board ...

..

[MikeGarcia]

Originally Posted by Fall1963

That wasn't my question at all.

.. Sorry to be late :" Every Thread Needs A Card."

[Exhibitman]

That's a nice one, Mike.

[EddieP]

Originally Posted by The Detroit Collector

Good thing the national is not in San Antonio. That's why you go inside with that type of money.

Unfortunately Jugging is nationwide:

https://youtu.be/hkID9i3K0aQ

https://youtu.be/RVvot5ZthwY

https://youtu.be/afQrOQawu5w

https://youtu.be/Aas13yGbibk

https://youtu.be/dyv4S_24RI8

[Tony Gordon]

Take it from a local, you'll be fine in and around Rosemont. Very safe. The portion of Chicago that borders Rosemont is the safest area in the city, home to Chicago police officers, firefighters and city workers. The other suburbs around Rosemont are very safe as well like Schiller Park, Norridge, Park Ridge, and Des Plaines. The only area I would worry about is the parking lot at the casino up the street located in Des Plaines. There are occasional muggings in the casino parking lot.

[Shemp]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Another reason that the National should be held in Vegas every year. It is MUCH safer to walk around the casinos in Vegas with tens of thousands of dollars in cash than it is pretty much anywhere else in the country. Especially Chicago.

Especially Chicago? No more dangerous than any other large city. Keep your right wing politics out of here.

[Oscar_Stanage]

How do you get that much cash on a plane?
Isn’t it a risk for the TSA to inform authorities who can do a civil seizure for basically no reason. I’m sure it’s rare but a little research uncovers some real horror stories

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Shemp

Especially Chicago? No more dangerous than any other large city. Keep your right wing politics out of here.

I can't imagine the security at the casinos has lightened up since I was there in the late 70's.

My little brother almost got us kicked out. Some guy hit a slot machine for an armload of dollar coins, and was spilling a few on the way to the cashier. Mike picked up a "few" not much since he was 8. (we were on our way to the all you can eat buffet for dinner) We didn't see him, the guy didn't either. Security was all over it. Fortunately the guy didn't care and told Mike he could keep what he got. Like maybe $12... We all got a lecture about keeping a better eye on underage family members.

The papers had at least one story about a known thief and card cheat finally being found in the desert. which had also happened some time before with someone who tried robbing a casino....

I would feel pretty safe in a casino in Vegas.

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by Oscar_Stanage

How do you get that much cash on a plane?
Isn’t it a risk for the TSA to inform authorities who can do a civil seizure for basically no reason. I’m sure it’s rare but a little research uncovers some real horror stories

That only really applies if you are flying overseas. I returned from Europe at the end of June and the only place I saw such signs was in the International terminals..

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by Yoda

After having had my pocket picked at the Nat'l in Cleveland several years, losing about 4k in cash, credit card, passport, drivers license etc., I now carry a money belt securely fastened under my shirt, which if nothing else gives me confidence at the Big Show. I was the perfect target, drooling over a nice E95 Matty, trying to do a deal with the dealer, totally distracted. I would be always aware of my surroundings when talking to a dealer, particularly if someone is just a little too close for comfort. These perps often work in pairs: one distracts and the other picks.

You can rest assured that the Center will be seriously crowded, bumping and shoving is to be expected. You can be certain that thieves, scammers, grifters and hookers will see Chicago as a rich environment. Be on your toes and don't have an experience like mine.

I do not work for either company and get nothing from this, but I use these products. A rare time I will endorse anything without payment.

You can also purchase pickpocket proof pants and jackets. Once you get used to them they become second nature to use. They have side pockets that have an outside zipper. That is pretty easy for a pickpocket to pull up. Inside the pocket is a second pocket that is secured with velcro. That one could not be opened without you feeling it. Inside the main pocket is also a small pocket down the bottom that zips. It is good for hotel keycards, change or Colgan chip coins. They have business and adventure pants. The adventure pants have a small strap that goes across the pocket and buttons on the other side making it impossible to unzip. The back pockets require you to unbutton, unzip then unbutton again. No pickpocket can do that that quickly. The coat is also great. I own three pairs of pants and the jacket. I have worn the pants at The National.

See www.clothingarts.com. They are well worth the price and will have random sales of 10-25% off. Just get on their mailing list.

For bags check out www.travelonbags.com. I used their messenger bag in Paris and felt safe using it. Anti RFID blocking, slash resistant strap and panels. Also, the hooks that attach the strap to the bag lock and the zipper pulls are like caribiners that you hook onto a little ring to keep it closed. I bought my bag through the Macy's site and got 25% off.

[Steve_NY]

As an older dealer at the National, I no longer take anything but CASH and checks. If you have bought from me before and pay by check, you can take the merchandise with you; if not, I will send you the merchandise when the check clears.

I have taken huge amounts in cash and checks before, and have done the National in Chicago so many times that I consider the Rosemont location quite safe outside the show room; I am more concerned about inside the show room, where I have stepped up my own security. Everything will be locked before, during and after all transactions. Stay Safe!!!

Steve

[Leon]

As far as right around the convention center, I feel safe. And I agree that there will be a lot more theft in the convention than outside of it. Always be careful and cognizant. I have brought up to about 8k in cash before, but no longer do it. I will have checks and Paypal or Zelle. And I can provide a lot of references . I have never had an issue on how to pay for stuff.

This (below) is my last national pick up, from a board member.
.

Originally Posted by Steve_NY

As an older dealer at the National, I no longer take anything but CASH and checks. If you have bought from me before and pay by check, you can take the merchandise with you; if not, I will send you the merchandise when the check clears.

I have taken huge amounts in cash and checks before, and have done the National in Chicago so many times that I consider the Rosemont location quite safe outside the show room; I am more concerned about inside the show room, where I have stepped up my own security. Everything will be locked before, during and after all transactions. Stay Safe!!!

Steve

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

I've always felt perfectly safe in that area. It's the polar opposite of some crime-ridden ghetto. In fact, the only people I've ever seen anywhere in the surrounding area are those who are there to attend the show. I've never really seen any locals. The entire area was seemingly designed toward out-of-town travelers for conventions.

[Bobbycee]

Originally Posted by Shemp

Especially Chicago? No more dangerous than any other large city. Keep your right wing politics out of here.

Swing & a miss Alberti

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Bobbycee

Swing & a miss Alberti

Looking at crime statistics is a right-wing talking point.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Michael B

They have business and adventure pants. The adventure pants have a small strap that goes across the pocket and buttons on the other side making it impossible to unzip. The back pockets require you to unbutton, unzip then unbutton again. No pickpocket can do that that quickly.

Sounds pretty theft-proof. I know if I were going to the National I would feel better if I were wearing my big boy adventure pants.

Brian

[Yoda]

Maybe get a debit card from your bank?

[Exhibitman]

Rosemont is to Chicago as New Rochelle is to Harlem, or as Burbank is to South Central Los Angeles. It is a 'burb and not even part of the city.

While casinos are really, really safe, the closest I got to a fistfight in the last 30+ years was in a casino in Las Vegas. I am an early riser and when I am there I like to play craps or blackjack really early. I was walking away from the cage past the bar at the Casino Royale when this drunk older man stepped out of the bar, blocked my way, tapped me on the chest across the logo of my Yankees sweatshirt with his beer can, and drawled in some sort of Southern accent: "Don't come in here with that crap on." Then he looked up at me, realized that I was a good 8" taller and 120# heavier than him, and that his mouth had just written a check his body could not cash, and said: "even if you are about 6'9" and 300#. Uhh, sorry about that." Knowing how intense casino security is, I just walked away. No point in getting my ass kicked by the bouncers just to take a shot at some drunk idiot.

[gonefishin]

I attended a nice card show at Pechanga Casino in Temecula CA last week end. I came across a decent 54 Aaron at a good price that I decided to buy. The dealer and I came to an agreement, and I whipped out my credit card to buy it. No sir, he didn't take credit cards or PayPal. It was either cash, Venmo, Zeille, or a couple of other methods that I'm not familiar with. Not having that much cash, I went to the casino to draw on my credit card - they wanted 7.5% of the total to do the transaction. Needless to say, it didn't work out. My message - be prepared for paying using the latest technology.

Side note: Rene and Casey Nezhoda from "Storage Wars" were there buying cards. He wasn't selling anything. He sat behind a glass display case filled with 100 dollar bills and bought cards all day long! He must have done well, because there was a constant line at his table. I chatted with him and asked if he collected cards, he said but - he would buy anything he can make a dollar from. He and his wife were very nice.

[Bobbycee]

Originally Posted by G1911

Looking at crime statistics is a right-wing talking point.

& ignoring crime is a left wing sickness.

[Hxcmilkshake]

Cash baby.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

I would recommend taking cash for large purchases as not only will the dealer be more amenable to a possible deal/discount but you'll get a smoother transaction. As others mentioned, as long as you're careful you shouldn't have any problems.