New information on a possible timeframe for the T206 350 only subjects (print group 2

[Pat R]

The general consensus is that the 350 only (print group 2 subjects) distribution began in early 1910 and I also believed that was accurate.

I recently discovered this clipping in a November 18 1909 North Carolina newspaper. Buggs Raymond is a 350 only print group 2 subject.
T206 350 only The_Evening_Index_Thu__Nov_18__1909_.jpg

Now I don't consider this ironclad proof unless I find more information to support it but if the newspaper information is accurate then some of the 350 only subjects distribution must have started in October or November of 1909 and at $2.50 "old Buggs" must have been as sought out as Honus and Ty at the time.

With 202 subjects there would have been several different sheets it's possible that they started printing and distributing a couple of 350 only sheets at the end of 1909.

There are 34 subjects with the same or similar back configurations as Buggs Raymond (11 of the 34 weren't printed with Sov 350 while the rest were) besides that they all have the same exact back configuration which differs from the rest of the 202 subjects.

* = Sovereign forest green no print

*Adkins
Armbruster
Beckley
Bescher (port)
Butler (there's a two name T206 with Raymond at the top)
Carrigan
Clancy
*Dessau
*Dorner
*Engle
Ferguson
*Hayden
Howard, Del
Knight (port)
Krause (pitching)
Kroh
*Laporte
Merritt
*Milan
Moeller
Moran, Pat
Moriarty
*Mullen (port)
O'Brien
O'Neil
Perring
Phelps
Randall
Raymond
*Ritter
*Schirm
*Snodgrass (batting)
Thielman
Young, Irv

[Jobu]

Cool find! PSA shows two other 1909 cards for Raymond, Colgan's (which isn't a cigarette and so probably isn't what the author is referring to) and also T204. What do you think about the chance that this is referring to his T204?

[G1911]

Assuming that this article is in reference to what we call T206, that makes sense to me.

We have significant evidence that series in the ATC marketing project were not necessarily all produced at once or together, but there were waves of cards. T220 appears to have been 2 waves of a single series released and produced separately with a small time gap. T42, in the same physical card size as T206 and probably same sheet size, appears to have 25 unique cards to a sheet as we know from the no-prints in some backs, instead of the 50 card series. T218's third series has implications in the ledger, with its multiple issue dates, that it was also released in waves.

I would not assume that T206 series or groups were all distributed just like a Topps series, with all the cards constituting it available at once, as the hobby has generally done.

[ty_cobb]

we don't know what backs they are talking about, but if its Piedmont one would imagine it may be a regional scarcity, but if its carolina brights no wonder they cant find any,,lol.

In polar bear it seems 'somewhat available' , or certainly other scarcities far supercede it, https://www.crtsportscards.com/my-t2...ear-collection

although said polar bear collector does not have one!

story indicates it may not have been on a sheet for all of the print run, thats all I get out of it

[sreader3]

Hi Pat, I think there is a T206 Raymond out there with a date stamp on the back from late 1909. I once had a scan but alas deleted. Also, Bobby Byrne was traded from the Cards to the Pirates in August 1909 but appears with the Cards in the 350-only group. So I think that group was likely released in Q409 as you suggest.

[sreader3]

Apparently Bugs was still highly coveted in March 1910. If we ask: Which of these things is not like the other from the Greenville article then Bugs Raymond sticks out like a sore thumb. Either he was an extremely popular player in the off-season between 1909 and 1910 or his card release was slow-walked, leading to excess demand (or short supply take your pick) for that particular "Baseball Man" by the "Small Boy” on the street.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Jobu

Cool find! PSA shows two other 1909 cards for Raymond, Colgan's (which isn't a cigarette and so probably isn't what the author is referring to) and also T204. What do you think about the chance that this is referring to his T204?

Hey Bryan, I was hoping one of the T204 guys would reply. The claim is that the T204 distribution was in or around the Massachusetts area and any ads that I've found support that.

I found ads like these that ran in newspapers from May to July 1910. All of the ads I found were in papers from Connecticut, Massachusetts, New York and Vermont nothing from the west or south for Ramly cigarettes.

Ramly The_Boston_Globe_Thu__Jul_14__1910_.jpg

Ramly The_Burlington_Free_Press_Wed__Jul_6__1910_.jpg

I also found these

Boston Globe May 6 1973
Ramly The_Boston_Globe_Sun__May_6__1973_.jpg

Boston Globe Oct 9 1981
Ramly The_Boston_Globe_Fri__Oct_9__1981_ (1).jpg

It make sense to me that the newspaper clipping is about T206's because at that time Raymond would have been tough to find because the print group 1 subjects that Raymond wasn't in would have already been distributed for 6 or 7 months and print group 2 would have just began distribution but of course they wouldn't have known that.