Introduction and help with a Walter Johnson Type 1

[Swadewade51]

Hi everyone,

I'm a new user and was sent this way by a buddy of mine. I'm was hoping you all could help me out with a WaJo Type 1 from his estate

I have the year as 1920 based on the uniform and matching it to other photos from around then. I'm looking for help getting the day down.

WaJo only pitched at Fenway on opening day of 1920 and July 1st, his only no hitter.

A photo from Opening Day 1920 (which also helps with the uniform/year) shows then Gov. Coolidge with both teams and a lot of the advertisements above Duffy's Cliff. And in the Type 1 you can see there is 1 advertisement that is different. I've attached both and circled differences and similarities.

I've already looked into the weather and what WaJo was wearing and it hasn't been very conclusive. I'm also going to reach out to his grandson who was the first seller of the photo.

If anyone has anymore photos from 1920-1921 Fenway that could help pinpoint when that advertisement changed over, that'd be great!


Thanks for the help!

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[dbrown]

Is there anything present that definitely says that he pitched the day this photo was taken? If not, that opens up several other potential dates.

But I'd guess June, if only one ad has changed since April.

[Swadewade51]

Originally Posted by dbrown

Is there anything present that definitely says that he pitched the day this photo was taken? If not, that opens up several other potential dates.

But I'd guess June, if only one had has changed since April.

This is absolutely another possibility, that he could just be tossing the ball around on a day he didn't pitch.

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[GoCubsGo32]

Billboard change over is a very useful & interesting topic.

I have not looked at my database of photos just yet, but if that one photo is from Opening Day it's possible that particular billboard ad (Life Buoy Soap) has not been changed over yet from the previous year---meaning that particular ad (Life Buoy Soap) is from the 1919 season vs. what you would normally see in that spot for the 1920 season.

If the year, stats etc.. are correct and that Life Buoy Soap billboard is from the 1919 season & there was only one Billboard change over (to WaJo estate photo)...then it might be from July 1st 1920.

Also, I would try zooming in on the scoreboard as well from the Wajo estate photo.

[Lucas00]

Good Luck Wade! I'm sure a forum member has a 1920 shot showing the fence. Maybe even dated.

[Swadewade51]

Originally Posted by GoCubsGo32

Billboard change over is a very useful & interesting topic.



I have not looked at my database of photos just yet, but if that one photo is from Opening Day it's possible that particular billboard ad (Life Buoy Soap) has not been changed over yet from the previous year---meaning that particular ad (Life Buoy Soap) is from the 1919 season vs. what you would normally see in that spot for the 1920 season.



If the year, stats etc.. are correct and that Life Buoy Soap billboard is from the 1919 season & there was only one Billboard change over (to WaJo estate photo)...then it might be from July 1st 1920.



Also, I would try zooming in on the scoreboard as well from the Wajo estate photo.

This is great! I actually did find a 1919 photo with the Life Buoy soap add that I'll attach. The Type 1 photo scoreboard is very out of focus when zooming in but I appreciate that advise!

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[Southpaw85]

Labeled as 1918 WS - 'MCA' ad present: https://i.redd.it/lbseg0jltwd61.jpg

Merely coincidence, I'm sure... but seems like the opening day '20 photo shows a team of guys preparing to change out/clean/paint over(?) the 'John and Arthur' automobile ad... in fact, the 'Arthur' is either 1/2 way gone or 1/2 way completed... same appears to be the case with whatever was above the Hotel Commodore ad. Anyway, is it possible the opening day photo captures (at least some) ad changes underway at Fenway? Not sure how it fits with the WaJo date, but i'd image the corroborating photo you're looking for is out there...

[Swadewade51]

Originally Posted by Southpaw85

Labeled as 1918 WS - 'MCA' ad present: https://i.redd.it/lbseg0jltwd61.jpg



Merely coincidence, I'm sure... but seems like the opening day '20 photo shows a team of guys preparing to change out/clean/paint over(?) the 'John and Arthur' automobile ad... in fact, the 'Arthur' is either 1/2 way gone or 1/2 way completed... same appears to be the case with whatever was above the Hotel Commodore ad. Anyway, is it possible the opening day photo captures (at least some) ad changes underway at Fenway? Not sure how it fits with the WaJo date, but i'd image the corroborating photo you're looking for is out there...

Interesting! It looks like that MCA from 1918 is the add present in the Type 1! Perhaps the Type 1 is before opening day 1920 but after the 1918 one you sent me! I'll need to find some later 1920s or 1921 photos.

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[nolemmings]

I guess I am not understanding what it is you want. You say there are only two days in 1920 where WaJo pitched-- Opening Day and July 1, and you are confident that your type 1 is from 1920. If so it has to be the latter date if in fact the photo is from a game he pitched, right?

The two photos are obviously of different dates given the two different scoreboard ads, and we know that the scoreboard shown on Opening Day is not the same as on the type 1 photo. That leaves the series from June 29-July 1, and Walter only pitched in the finale. The photo seems to show him warming up while his mates took infield, and throwing in front of the first-base line. Seems doubtful to me he would be just throwing to get loose before one of the other games-- and the spot where he is throwing is likely used by the starter of the day.

The only other series where the Senators visited Fenway in 1920 was the last series of the season at the end of September. WaJo was shut down in mid-July with a bad arm, and likely was not even there.

Are you thinking the year of your pic might be something other than 1920?

NEVER MIND-- It seems you are open to the fact that the photo may be from a year other than 1920

[Swadewade51]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

I guess I am not understanding what it is you want. You say there are only two days in 1920 where WaJo pitched-- Opening Day and July 1, and you are confident that your type 1 is from 1920. If so it has to be the latter date if in fact the photo is from a game he pitched, right?

The two photos are obviously of different dates given the two different scoreboard ads, and we know that the scoreboard shown on Opening Day is not the same as on the type 1 photo. That leaves the series from June 29-July 1, and Walter only pitched in the finale. The photo seems to show him warming up while his mates took infield, and throwing in front of the first-base line. Seems doubtful to me he would be just throwing to get loose before one of the other games-- and the spot where he is throwing is likely used by the starter of the day.

The only other series where the Senators visited Fenway in 1920 was the last series of the season at the end of September. WaJo was shut down in mid-July with a bad arm, and likely was not even there.

Are you thinking the year of your pic might be something other than 1920?

I'm thinking that either the type 1 photo is indeed from July 1st, the no hitter. Or it's possible that the photo pre-dates the 1920 season. One user uploaded a photo from 1918 that shows the MCA ad, the same as the one I circled in the Type 1.

I'm looking for photos from later on in 1920, post-opening day or July 1st to see what ads are being displayed.

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[ValKehl]

I have no info to add, but I think the Boston Garter ad on the clock above the wall is so cool.

[GoCubsGo32]

Correct that M*C*A ad from the 1918 WS from the link above is the same brand from both photos. However, I believe the M*C*A from 1918 and the WaJo estate photo are very similar but different design.

The WaJo estate photo looks like it has a painted side profile face next to the M*C*A (to the left) were the 1918 season ad is only text.

[conor912]

I have very little to add, other than anyone who has been to Boston in July knows that the idea of wearing a wool sweater over a wool uniform sounds like a form of torture.

[Swadewade51]

Originally Posted by GoCubsGo32

Correct that M*C*A ad from the 1918 WS from the link above is the same brand from both photos. However, I believe the M*C*A from 1918 and the WaJo estate photo are very similar but different design.



The WaJo estate photo looks like it has a painted side profile face next to the M*C*A (to the left) were the 1918 season ad is only text.

Thank you for that! I didn't notice that! I hope someone can churn up a photo from later 1920s or early 1921 to narrow down the time range.

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