2023 rule changes, unintended consequences

[FrankWakefield]

I don't really KNOW what I'm about to post about (not a first).

The new rules... a few unintended consequences have crossed my mind. First one I would like to hear thoughts on is the pitch clock.

From my prejudiced, incorrect Old Times were better perspective, Bob Gibson would have no trouble pitching with the clock change. Lots of pitchers in the 60s could work quickly. Sometimes, when listening to the radio, when the radio break was 60 seconds, I recall there were pitchers that would already be a pitch or two into the first batter before the commercial break was over. The announcer would say what the first two pitches were as the third pitch was happening. Those were the days of games occasionally being complete under 2 hours. NOT TRUE with many modern pictures. As a Cardinals fan, I've agonized as Giovanny Gallegos would tentatively stand on the mound between pitches.... Players on the field with Bob Gibson would have to be alert, because Gibson was pitching, constantly. Jim Kaat worked quickly later in his career.


https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1680270179

The Cardinal's hurler, who pitches a glacier-like frequency. 'cause a thread needs a card.

These modern pitchers have gotten accustomed to having their own amount of time to get ready between pitches. Thoughts: Might delivering a pitch with greater frequency reduce the possible velocity that could have been placed on the pitch? Will pitch count for a starter go down because he now can't take as long to catch his breath, relax his arm, then start his windup?

So, my first question:

Most 2023 pitchers have learned to pitch at their own pace, will the pitch clock rules result in some injured arms because a pitcher's pitch frequency and pattern has changed?

[Leon]

I think pitchers will get used to the clock over time and it won't affect them too greatly. I pitched as a youngster and think I could adapt. Making the games be a bit shorter isn't a bad thing. That all said, it doesn't matter much to me as I don't watch MLB or keep up with it.
.

[mrreality68]

I think the pitch clock over time will be good for the game but when a strike is called on a player(Mets/Miami game) for a player getting back to first base to late then seems odd. Punishing a player for the actions of another player

And also striking out with a pitch thrown because of the batter not engaging in time seems odd (forgot which team that was)

[BobbyStrawberry]

I'm sure all will get used to it but the 15 seconds still seems too rushed to me. I wish they would have increased it to 20-30 even with the bases empty.

[stlcardsfan]

I went to the Cardinals and Blue Jays game yesterday and they still managed to exceed 3 1/2 hours for a 9 inning game. Admittedly, it wasn't a very pretty game. 10-9 with tons of pitching changes.

However, the game moved noticeably quicker when there was action going on in the field. Which I and everyone seemed to enjoy.

[Jim65]

The players are professionals and this is their job. They will adapt just like every person is forced to do when their jobs have rules. There will be a learning curve like Pete Alonso casually strolling back to first after a foul ball. The game will be better for it in the long run.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by stlcardsfan

I went to the Cardinals and Blue Jays game yesterday and they still managed to exceed 3 1/2 hours for a 9 inning game. Admittedly, it wasn't a very pretty game. 10-9 with tons of pitching changes.

However, the game moved noticeably quicker when there was action going on in the field. Which I and everyone seemed to enjoy.

I am taking a wait and see on the clock, but honestly do like it to this point. As to the latter statement, that is where I would like a bit of a change.

To see less pitching changes would help my enjoyment. Something like a minimum batters faced requirement or a per game limit for changes.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by JustinD

I am taking a wait and see on the clock, but honestly do like it to this point. As to the latter statement, that is where I would like a bit of a change.

To see less pitching changes would help my enjoyment. Something like a minimum batters faced requirement or a per game limit for changes.

Pretty sure there is a minimum batters faced requirement already on the books...

IIRC, 3 batters is the minimum, unless the pitcher ends the inning, in which case a new pitcher can start the next inning.

But maybe 3 is too few for your taste? Maybe 5 or 10 would be better?

[raulus]

There's actually an article in today's WSJ suggesting that the pitch clock will provide more rest for players. By shortening up games ~ 20-30 mins apiece, there's about 2.5-3 hours less of playing time each week. That's basically a whole game!

And then when you add in travel schedules and all that jazz, shortening up the game can make a difference on the wear and tear for players. In theory, they can play more games if the games are shorter.

Obviously the counterargument is that the games are shorter but more intense, so there's no real savings in terms of physical exertion.

[Touch'EmAll]

I watched some spring training ball. I felt rushed just watching the game. If the pitch clock was even 5-10 seconds longer would be better. It is the enormous amount of pitcher changes these days that really lengthen the game and make it hard to stay attentive.

[mainemule]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

I think the pitch clock over time will be good for the game but when a strike is called on a player(Mets/Miami game) for a player getting back to first base to late then seems odd. Punishing a player for the actions of another player

And also striking out with a pitch thrown because of the batter not engaging in time seems odd (forgot which team that was)

It was Devers, I was there, and it was BS.....CANNOT have that happen because of 1-2 seconds. Both he and pitcher were engaged but clock went below 8 seconds and Devers needed to be looking at the pitcher. It's a crappy rule that needs to be tweaked.

[kmac32]

The pitch clock definitely shortens the game and may lead to more DWI arrests as if you have to drink the same number of beers in a shorte time, then there will be more drunk drivers. Also the beer vendors will make less as fewer beers can be consumed in 2 hours. Bet MLB didn’t consider these facts.

[brass_rat]

I knew I would like the pitch clock, but I didn't realize I would love it as much as I do. Games were just becoming unwatchable with all of the stalling...

Now if they would only get rid of replay challenges or at least penalize unsuccessful challenges, that would be great.

My guess is that teams had pitchers doing a while lot more tabata with their workouts over the off-season to help reduce their recovery times between pitches. That, plus going max effort less frequently during the game. I wouldn't be surprised if pitcher injuries actually drop in a couple of years once they learn how to pitch instead of just throwing hard...

[Harliduck]

When I first heard it was going to be a thing, I was against the pitch clock and didn't enjoy it watching Minor league ball that we have locally. Just didn't feel right, and I consider myself a traditionalist. But like others, I really loved the pace of the Ms/Guardians game last night and I'm glad the telecast didn't have the timer shown. It was out of sight, and the game moved at an amazing pace. Im a convert.


We did have a moment last night that was definitely an unintended consequence. A reliever came in the 8th and it was clear he wasn't comfortable. The sold out crowd got louder, and he got an infraction. Next pitch, the crowd loudly started counting down! He threw the next pitch over the catchers head! The crowd made a HUGE difference, didn't see that coming. He went from 0-2, to walking him...then he gave up a 3 run home run...Ms won 3-0. Sports radio today could not stop talking about how the large and loud crowd made a difference. This will be a game changer on many levels.

Guess I'm not as traditionalist as I thought. Still hate the extra inning ghost runner...hate it.

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by stlcardsfan

I went to the Cardinals and Blue Jays game yesterday and they still managed to exceed 3 1/2 hours for a 9 inning game. Admittedly, it wasn't a very pretty game. 10-9 with tons of pitching changes.

However, the game moved noticeably quicker when there was action going on in the field. Which I and everyone seemed to enjoy.

To be fair, that game had 30+ hits and a strike zone the size of a grapefruit. I enjoyed it. 10/12 games clocked in under 3 hours and the late games were over at decent time. If the STL/TOR game would have been played last year it probably would have pushed 5 hours.

[insidethewrapper]

I like the games to be between 2 /1/2 and 3 hours, if less than that I feel like I'm being cheated for the price I pay. Fans will have to drink and eat faster at the games or the vending income etc will be affected.

[doug.goodman]

I just got back from my first game of the season, which went 2 hours and 17 minutes.

I have to say, I did not hate the pitch clock as much I wanted to.

Doug

[Gary Dunaier]

Originally Posted by kmac32

The pitch clock definitely shortens the game and may lead to more DWI arrests as if you have to drink the same number of beers in a shorte time, then there will be more drunk drivers.

I've read that a couple of teams are already either delaying last call by an inning, or eliminating it altogether.

Not good.

Last call is an issue of public safety. If someone gets killed by a drunken driver and it can be proven the driver was at a game where last call was delayed or removed, you can bet the team will be named as a defendant in the wrongful death lawsuit.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Gary Dunaier

I've read that a couple of teams are already either delaying last call by an inning, or eliminating it altogether.

Not good.

Last call is an issue of public safety. If someone gets killed by a drunken driver and it can be proven the driver was at a game where last call was delayed or removed, you can bet the team will be named as a defendant in the wrongful death lawsuit.

Be interesting to see what happens. The games are going so fast and the teams are probably losing a lot of sales of beer in these shorter games
Hopefully they find a responsible balance

[Bestdj777]

Maybe it’s just me, but I think individuals can be personally accountable for their decisions to drink and drive…. I love the new pitch clock. A 7pm game that goes 3.5+ hours is brutal.

[sycks22]

I'm usually a purist when it comes to baseball, but I love the pitch clock. It cuts out 25-30 minutes of dead time that needed to be cut out. Having a guy throw over to first 4-5x's per at bat just to delay the game was too much. I also don't think it'll impact the long term effect on a pitchers' arm if they speed up their delivery by 3-5 seconds.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Be interesting to see what happens. The games are going so fast and the teams are probably losing a lot of sales of beer in these shorter games
Hopefully they find a responsible balance

Do the teams run the concessions now? Back years ago, it was an outside company that ran the concessions under contract from the team. Harry M Stevens was the one here, and probably other places as well.

The teams and MLB may be taking some heat from whoever is running them, if the available selling time has been reduced for all concessions.

[insidethewrapper]

Maybe they could open up earlier ( 30 more minutes) so the fans could see batting and fielding practice and this would also increase some vending and merchandise sales.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by steve B

Do the teams run the concessions now? Back years ago, it was an outside company that ran the concessions under contract from the team. Harry M Stevens was the one here, and probably other places as well.

The teams and MLB may be taking some heat from whoever is running them, if the available selling time has been reduced for all concessions.

There may be some variations on a theme out there. But for the most part, I think it's contracted out. Although I suspect the teams get a cut of the sales.

And I agree that anyone running concessions now might want to revisit their contract when it comes around to renewal time, particularly if the new pace of play has impacted sales.

Side note: My favorite vendor pitch has always been the guy walking down the aisle yelling at the top of his lungs: "Sack-a-nuts!!!!"

[icurnmedic]

Much better to watch now, faster, same amount of play in shorter time, just much more entertaining.
I did not expect that to be the case.

However, how is this going to affect the teams revenue, not only with concessions and apparel , but what about TV advertisement ? I would think shorter games means less advertisers? Maybe someone could clear this up.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by icurnmedic

However, how is this going to affect the teams revenue, not only with concessions and apparel , but what about TV advertisement ? I would think shorter games means less advertisers? Maybe someone could clear this up.

It seems like TV ads mostly come in-between innings. And those shouldn’t be affected by the pitch clock.

They did shorten the between inning time a few years ago. But the speed of each half inning of play shouldn’t have an impact on ads, unless the broadcasters are sneaking in ads during play.

[icurnmedic]

Originally Posted by raulus

It seems like TV ads mostly come in-between innings. And those shouldn’t be affected by the pitch clock.

They did shorten the between inning time a few years ago. But the speed of each half inning of play shouldn’t have an impact on ads, unless the broadcasters are sneaking in ads during play.

Yep. That makes sense!

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by icurnmedic

Much better to watch now, faster, same amount of play in shorter time, just much more entertaining.
I did not expect that to be the case.

However, how is this going to affect the teams revenue, not only with concessions and apparel , but what about TV advertisement ? I would think shorter games means less advertisers? Maybe someone could clear this up.

They also have commercials during the game, I've seen quick 5 second ads and longer ads on a split screen.

[BobC]

FYI, possibly more upcoming rule changes in another couple years or so.

https://currently.att.yahoo.com/spor...185213116.html

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by BobC

FYI, possibly more upcoming rule changes in another couple years or so.

https://currently.att.yahoo.com/spor...185213116.html

Ugh. That designated pinch runner idea is terrible IMO

[steve B]

As George Harrison said on The Simpsons
Eh, it's been done.


Finley was WAY ahead of his time.

[Yoda]

If the fans are thirsty, let them drink Coke.