D310 tint answers, solutions, theories, challenge

[brianp-beme]

Ok, I looked through my collection of D310's and am embarrassed to say I believe I have figured out the the green and gray tinting on these cards. It becomes really obvious if you have a decent amount of D310's and store them based upon the team organized checklist on the back of each card, which I do, and is why I am embarrassed to state that I never noticed this before.

Within each of the six team's checklist the players (twelve per team) are arranged non-alphabetically. For example, San Francisco's list looks like this on the back of the card:

San Francisco

Madden
Browning
Henley
Smith
Holland
Weaver
Tennant
Sutor
Vitt
McArdle
Berry
Mohler

I own 11 of the 12 San Francisco cards (missing the Weaver, for crying out loud). The first six on the list, Madden through Weaver, are all green tinted (which includes the Weaver cards I have seen out there in collector land). The second six, Tennant through Mohler, have gray tints. The same pattern holds true for the next two teams (Oakland and Portland) that are listed vertically beneath San Francisco; the first six players listed on their respective checklists have green tints, while the second six are gray tinted.

The next team, Sacramento, listed on the top right of the backside, mixes things up a little, with the first six players possessing gray tints, and the second six green tints. The final two teams, Los Angeles and Vernon, change things completely by eliminating all gray tints--cards from both of these teams appear in only green tints.

So my theory is that these cards were printed in sheets of 24, or some divisible multiple of 24, and that only 24 cards in the set were printed with the gray tint. If the sheets were 24 cards, then two of the three sheets printed would have been printed green, and the other sheet in gray.

So here is your challenge--check your collections and try to find any D310 that does not fit the following pattern I have discerned. I will list below the 24 cards that I think can only be found with gray tints, and all others not listed should only be found with green tints. I would love to hear back from collectors on what D310's they have (and their tint, of course) so that we can either prove or disprove my theory.

D310 list of Gray Tint only cards:

San Francisco

Tennant
Sutor
Vitt
McArdle
Berry
Mohler

Oakland

Hoffman
Cutshaw
Maggart
Wolverton
Pyfl
Tiedeman

Portland

Steen
Ryan
Murray
McCredie
Rapps
Chadbourne

Sacramento

LaLonge
Heister
Danzig
Van Buren
Fitzgerald
Lewis


Brian (no team affiliation, but green is my favorite color)

[Vintagecatcher]

Brian,

Here is my Berry. It looks green to me.



Patrick

[Jacklitsch]

Very interesting.

I only have 2 D31o's:

Delmas, Los Angeles, appears to be Green tint
Brashear, Vernon, Gray tint

[brianp-beme]

Thanks for the posts Patrick and Steve. The Berry Patrick posted is what I consider Gray...I have one that looks just like this. Maybe it causes other people to be green with envy.

The Delmas that Steve posted looks to be the green tint that I indicated. The Brashear does look grayish, but would have to see in person (the scan is a little blurry). As Mark M. mentioned in his post on the other D310 thread, variations in tone are definitely seen. But if you have them in front of you you can definitely see the different gray and green tints.

Hope to see/hear about more out there...help me fine tune my theory.

Brian

[Jacklitsch]

Pulled the Brashear. It is green tint. Poor scan.

[brianp-beme]

Thanks Steve for double-checking the Brashear. Thought for a second that my theories were on shaky ground right off the bat.

Now anyone else out there with D310's--let me know what you have (green/gray), either on the board or email/private message. I think Americans need and demand to know exactly what tints they can expect when buying a large size Pacific Biscuit card

Brian

[Kawika]

My one and only PCB (but I wouldn't mind more). Looks grey (like it's supposed to) to mine aged eyeballs.

[uffda51]

I used to own the Weaver, which was green-tinted.

[brianp-beme]

Thanks David and Bruce...two more that help out. The Lewis card is one of my favorites, and it points out one of the aspects of this set that is pretty neat...the smaller size full body pose with a ton of solid color background. The cards that are like this in the set are very distinct in my eyes (and indeed the Lewis is gray to my eyes too). And Bruce's former Weaver is just another notch in the green tint belt, like my theory says it would be. I could only dream of Weaver, or yes, be a dream Weaver. Ouch.

Keep them coming...I would love to think I have stumbled upon the perfect green/gray tint solution.

Brian

[Leon]

I don't do too well with colors and these series run together a little. I think I can add to the mix though and help confirm the theory...but these will need to be checked by someone that does better at discerning blue-green-brown-gray shades

[brianp-beme]

Sometimes I wish the Pacific Coast Biscuit makers had decided on yellow and purple as their tints...it sure would have made this quest a lot easier. Unfortunately on Leon's scan all four cards look greenish tint. The Ryan would be the rule breaker. Maybe, Leon, you can get someone else to gaze upon your card in person to see if it actually a gray tint. I swear if you get a bunch of them together you can tell these D310 tints apart.

I have a long-time collector checking his collection...will let all know the results. Also, haven't heard from Mark R. who started the other thread about this topic...help us come up with some answers.

Brian

[oaks1912]

Brian... I checked my biscuit set and I think you're on to something. Of the 24 cards you list as being available in gray, 23 of mine are. The lone fly in the ointment is Mohler, San Francisco where mine is green. I think it's more than possible that the 24 cards were printed in gray, and perhaps later printed in green (or vice versa). I agree with your sheet of 24 theory as well. Hopefully others will compare their sets, including a few lurking 'non-posters' that you & I know. These individuals are welcome to forward their data to me where it can be posted, therefore preserving their privacy.

[dstudeba]

I think all of these agree with your theory

[brianp-beme]

Thanks Mark and dstudeba for your replies. It is pretty neat to see that my tint distribution theory is holding up so far. Of course there has to be some dang exception that causes headaches, like the Mohler that Mark mentions. The one I have is the gray tint, which fits my theory. Perhaps if nothing else, when all is said and done, at least we will have a better understanding of what tints should normally be expected for each player. Down the road I might list all the cards alphabetically and indicate the tint, and any alternates found, such as Mark's Mohler card.

And thanks for providing the link to the group of D310's Mr. dstudeba. I suggest anyone out there who is unclear whether they have a green or gray tint to give it a look...I believe it clearly shows the difference between the two tints. By the way, in that link, the Berry, Pyfl and Rapp cards are the gray tints.

Brian

[yazfan08]

[Jacklitsch]

Found a few more:

[brianp-beme]

Thanks yazfan and Steve for the further contributions. These four all seem to fit into my tint theory. Steve's post is a good one because you can see a distinct difference between the gray and the green versions. If only the Peckinpaugh had been posted, some people might think it was actually gray in color. As you might notice just on the various cards posted on this thread, there are variations in tone on these, and scanners can distort the coloration too.

On a side note, my Peckinpaugh is like Steve's, but approximately 45% of the original size (I believe some kid was testing out a pair of scissors).

Keep them coming...your assistance in this will be greatly appreciated, and beneficial too!

[three25hits]

I only own a couple, and like Leon, can't see the nuance but these cards appear to support the theory. I own the Weaver and Mitz(e)...

[baseballart]

McArdle, grey

[brianp-beme]

Thanks Brian and Max for showing your biscuits. They seem to line up with the tint theory. Any more biscuits out there? They do not have to be Pacific Coast Biscuits...they can also be D310 cards located on the East Coast.

Brian

[yomass]

While it may be true that the listed 24 cards are available in gray, it is not exclusive; they appear to be available in both colors. I have numerous examples of the listed cards in both colors.

Steen, Portland
Murray, Portland
Hoffman, Oakland
Tiedman, Oakland
Wolverton, Oakland
Danzig, Sacramento
Berry, Sacramento
Sutor, Sacramento

Scans too big to post.

[brianp-beme]

Thanks Yomass for resurrecting an interesting post by interesting original poster (hey, that's me!). I would love to see scans of the card tint variations you have, either if you find a way to reduce the size and post here or you can send them to me by email. My tint theory was based upon my collection gathered from multiple sources over the years, but definitely it can be demolished if need be. Perhaps some or all of the gray tints can also be found in green. It would be interesting to find out if there are more than the 24 gray tinted cards I listed...so far no contradicting info on that account.

Thanks again for dragging this post back up...it reminds me how intelligent I seemed a year and half ago.

Brian

[brianp-beme]

I received a heads up from another Brian (thanks!) about this great website www.sportingoregon.com which was noted before on this forum but is worth checking out for all the cool photos and cards of Portland baseball. It shows all 12 Portland D310 cards, and includes images of Chadbourne in both Green and Gray tints. This info, along with yomass's (Richard?) list of cards posted below

Steen, Portland
Murray, Portland
Hoffman, Oakland
Tiedman, Oakland
Wolverton, Oakland
Danzig, Sacramento
Berry, Sacramento (This should be San Francisco)
Sutor, Sacramento (This should be San Francisco)


that he has in both tints (all of which are players on my original gray only list), as well as Leon's green Ryan as shown in a previous post and Mark M's Mohler, that my evolving theory can be stated as such:

The D310's were probably printed in sheets of 24, probably in different runs, all cards can be found in green, and only the 24 cards listed in the original post can be found in gray.

Now the challenge is to show us one of those 24 gray only cards with a green tint so that a hole can be blown clean through my high falutin' theories.

Brian

[Leon]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Now the challenge is to show us one of those 24 gray only cards with a green tint so that a hole can be blown clean through my high falutin' theories.

Brian

That site of the other Brian's is fantastic.

As for your theory, don't feel like the lone stranger. It happens all of the time with other theories and is a lot of what keeps this hobby fun. I mean really, how many new things can we come up with for hundred year old cards? Great thread too!!

[brianp-beme]

Interesting to see the evolution of a theory and how fellow net54'ers helped shape and change it.

Brian

[Leon]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Interesting to see the evolution of a theory and how fellow net54'ers helped shape and change it.

Brian

The D310s seem to have waned a little in popularity. But there are still some neat cards in the set. And yes, camaraderie is still a plus for the site and the hobby.

[brianp-beme]

Updated theory! Thanks to the final pieces of tint availability provided by fellow member edjs, I have been able to confirm the identity of 12 cards that were issued in both gray and green tints. The pattern is fairly distinct, 3 cards from each of 4 teams (San Francisco, Oakland, Portland, and Sacramento) are available in both tints. The final two teams, Los Angeles and Vernon, on the right side of the checklist on the back of each card, still are only seen with the green tint.

Here is the list of the 12 known cards that are seen with both green and gray tints:

Sutor, San Francisco
Berry, San Francisco
Mohler, San Francisco
Hoffman, Oakland
Wolverton, Oakland
Tiedman, Oakland
Steen, Portland
Murray, Portland
Chadbourne, Portland
LaLonge, Sacramento
Danzig, Sacramento
Lewis, Sacramento

I have typed out the checklist as seen on the back, and provided tint availability. Hopefully this makes the pattern of tint availability more evident and exposes how it lines up with the back checklist. With the 12 that are known in both tints, I have listed what I believe is the most common tint first. Please let us know if something exists outside this latest theory of mine.

Brian

See post # 34 for updated list!


SAN FRANCISCO

Madden - green
Browning - green
Henley - green
Smith - green
Holland - green
Weaver - green

Tennant - gray
Sutor - gray + green
Vitt - gray
McArdle - gray
Berry - gray + green
Mohler - gray + green

OAKLAND

Mitze - green
Wares - green
Ables - green
Christian - green
Zacher - green
Pernoll - green

Hoffman - gray + green
Cutshaw - gray
Maggart - gray
Wolverton - gray + green
Pyfl - gray
Tiedeman - gray + green

PORTLAND

Kuhn - green
Koestner - green
Seaton - green
Peckinpaugh - green
Sheehan - green
Henderson - green

Steen - gray + green
Ryan - gray
Murray -gray + green
McCredie - gray
Rapps - gray
Chadbourne - gray + green

SACRAMENTO

LaLonge - gray + green
Heister - gray
Danzig - gray + green
Van Buren - gray
Fitzgerald - gray
Lewis - gray + green

O'Rourke - green
Thompson - green
Nourse - green
Byram - green
Baum - green
Arrelanes -green

LOS ANGELES - All players ONLY green

Delmas
Daley
Howard
Bernard
Moore
Akin
Delhi
Dillon
Metzger
Smith
Tozer
Agnew

VERNON - All players ONLY green

Ross
Hogan
Raleigh
McDonnell
Brashear
Gipe
Carlisle
Hosp
Stinson
Patterson
Burrell
Hitt

[edjs]

Pretty nice detective work.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by edjs

Pretty nice detective work.

If it wasn't for collectors like yourself and others who shared info, I would still be under the purple haze of my original theory, as all of my cards line up perfectly with it.

Thanks all for blowing my delusions sky high!

Brian

[Leon]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

If it wasn't for collectors like yourself and others who shared info, I would still be under the purple haze of my original theory, as all of my cards line up perfectly with it.

Thanks all for blowing my delusions sky high!

Brian

All threads should have info such as this!
An oldie but a good one.

[yomass]

I think your first theory is correct.
The revised checklist is incorrect about "grey only" cards.
I am posting Pfyl, Vitt and Tennant, green tint. I do not have the grey tint versions. I have both variations of Cutshaw and Maggert.

[yomass]

Here are four others.
I believe your initial theory of 6 green only and 6 both green and gray for four of the teams was correct. A sheet of 24 grey tints makes sense.

[edjs]

Well, there ya go.

[brianp-beme]

Thanks yomass for the green tint images of those 7 cards, and information on the Maggart and Cutshaw. Like you mentioned, it makes sense that these cards were produced in 24 card sheets of the same tint. Now that we have 21 of the 24 gray tint cards that are known to have been issued with green tints as well, it seems likely the other 3 currently gray only tint cards likely have a green version as well.

Theory still in development...it appears that all 72 cards were probably issued with green tints, but based upon my collection that was assembled from many different sources over the years, the green tints are the less common tint in the 24 (still theoretical until green versions verified) that are found in both gray and green.

I have also included images of gray tint versions of Pyfl, Ryan, Tennant, Van Buren and Vitt to show the contrast in tint color versus the green ones yomass posted.

Once again thanks, and below I have updated the list of known tints for each card, placing a '?' by the cards that likely have a green tint available, but have not been confirmed

Brian


SAN FRANCISCO

Madden - green
Browning - green
Henley - green
Smith - green
Holland - green
Weaver - green

Tennant - gray + green
Sutor - gray + green
Vitt - gray + green
McArdle - gray + ?
Berry - gray + green
Mohler - gray + green

OAKLAND

Mitze - green
Wares - green
Ables - green
Christian - green
Zacher - green
Pernoll - green

Hoffman - gray + green
Cutshaw - gray + green
Maggart - gray + green
Wolverton - gray + green
Pyfl - gray + green
Tiedeman - gray + green

PORTLAND

Kuhn - green
Koestner - green
Seaton - green
Peckinpaugh - green
Sheehan - green
Henderson - green

Steen - gray + green
Ryan - gray + green
Murray -gray + green
McCredie - gray + green
Rapps - gray + ?
Chadbourne - gray + green

SACRAMENTO

LaLonge - gray + green
Heister - gray + green
Danzig - gray + green
Van Buren - gray + green
Fitzgerald - gray + ?
Lewis - gray + green

O'Rourke - green
Thompson - green
Nourse - green
Byram - green
Baum - green
Arrelanes -green

LOS ANGELES - All players ONLY green

Delmas
Daley
Howard
Bernard
Moore
Akin
Delhi
Dillon
Metzger
Smith
Tozer
Agnew

VERNON - All players ONLY green

Ross
Hogan
Raleigh
McDonnell
Brashear
Gipe
Carlisle
Hosp
Stinson
Patterson
Burrell
Hitt

[Leon]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Thanks yomass for the green tint images of those 7 cards, and information on the Maggart and Cutshaw. Like you mentioned, it makes sense that these cards were produced in 24 card sheets of the same tint. Now that we have 21 of the 24 gray tint cards that are known to have been issued with green tints as well, it seems likely the other 3 currently gray only tint cards likely have a green version as well.

Theory still in development...it appears that all 72 cards were probably issued with green tints, but based upon my collection that was assembled from many different sources over the years, the green tints are the less common tint in the 24 (still theoretical until green versions verified) that are found in both gray and green.

I have also included images of gray tint versions of Pyfl, Ryan, Tennant, Van Buren and Vitt to show the contrast in tint color versus the green ones yomass posted.

Once again thanks, and below I have updated the list of known tints for each card, placing a '?' by the cards that likely have a green tint available, but have not been confirmed

Brian


SAN FRANCISCO

Madden - green
Browning - green
Henley - green
Smith - green
Holland - green
Weaver - green

Tennant - gray + green
Sutor - gray + green
Vitt - gray + green
McArdle - gray + ?
Berry - gray + green
Mohler - gray + green

OAKLAND

Mitze - green
Wares - green
Ables - green
Christian - green
Zacher - green
Pernoll - green

Hoffman - gray + green
Cutshaw - gray + green
Maggart - gray + green
Wolverton - gray + green
Pyfl - gray + green
Tiedeman - gray + green

PORTLAND

Kuhn - green
Koestner - green
Seaton - green
Peckinpaugh - green
Sheehan - green
Henderson - green

Steen - gray + green
Ryan - gray + green
Murray -gray + green
McCredie - gray + green
Rapps - gray + ?
Chadbourne - gray + green

SACRAMENTO

LaLonge - gray + green
Heister - gray + green
Danzig - gray + green
Van Buren - gray + green
Fitzgerald - gray + ?
Lewis - gray + green

O'Rourke - green
Thompson - green
Nourse - green
Byram - green
Baum - green
Arrelanes -green

LOS ANGELES - All players ONLY green

Delmas
Daley
Howard
Bernard
Moore
Akin
Delhi
Dillon
Metzger
Smith
Tozer
Agnew

VERNON - All players ONLY green

Ross
Hogan
Raleigh
McDonnell
Brashear
Gipe
Carlisle
Hosp
Stinson
Patterson
Burrell
Hitt

way to keep at it, Brian...Good info....and thanks to all who helped too.

l

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Leon

way to keep at it, Brian...Good info....and thanks to all who helped too.

Thanks Leon. I would like to thank, again, all that have contributed to help revise my theory, especially Mark M., yomass, Brian C. and edjs. Without them, I would still think each of the 72 cards in the set were issued only in one tint, due to the composition of my collection.

Brian

[edjs]

Originally Posted by Leon

I don't do too well with colors and these series run together a little. I think I can add to the mix though and help confirm the theory...but these will need to be checked by someone that does better at discerning blue-green-brown-gray shades

Hey Leon, I recognize that Weaver from somewhere…….

[brianp-beme]

Always liked how info developed over the years about the tints on this thread. REA has a bunch of these (about 70% of the set) in the auction that ends this weekend, and I checked if the McArdle, Rapps and Fitzgerald green tints, which I have conjectured should exist, were in the auction. The players are there in the group lot, but just the gray tint versions of each.

Anyone come across green tint versions of these three players? It would be cool if my updated theory were proven to be spot on.

Brian (and a D310 Buck Weaver scan just for fun! It is a green tint, the only tint available for Weaver)

Brian