Lelands Clemente Cut?

[71buc]

This Clemente cut received a final bid of $6958 tonight in the Lelands auction. What the heck am I missing that generated this price?

https://auction.lelands.com/bids/bidplace?itemid=114565

[tlake22]

that's a no go

[71buc]

No go? Could you elaborate?

[homerunhitter]

No go? But it’s authenticated by PSA!?

[Leon]

Opinions on autographs are all over the board. I would never collect them except on official documents, preferably notarized, or with ironclad provenance.

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[balltrash]

Originally Posted by Leon

Opinions on autographs are all over the board. I would never collect them except on official documents, preferably notarized, or with ironclad provenance.

.

I am an autograph collector though I do dabble in cards. It is always interesting to me when people who fall to the card side of the hobby express that they would never collect autographs because "opinions are all over the board." I believe it is like any other area of collecting: do your homework and form your own opinions. In time you will see the pattern that what you consider real will largely overlap what other knowledgeable collectors do too. The converse argument that no one should buy high value cards (in better grade) because they must be altered is shored up by comments on this message board (card side) almost every day.

And while that Clemente autograph is perfectly real, in my opinion, the price is an outlier. I am all for third party authentication but it is amazing to me what PSA plastic and a number grade will do for value.

[rand1com]

I agree. Authentic, but a ridiculous price for that item.

[71buc]

I am certain it’s real. Clemente is one of the few autographs I feel safe assessing authenticity myself. The reason for my post was the hammer price not the authenticity or slab. I was surprised by the final bid as cuts can generally be had for 2K even in PSA slabs. I didn’t see anything about this particular cut that justified the price. I have picked up a signed Clemente photo for half of what this cut realized.

[Republicaninmass]

Maybe the MINT 9 designation? Price is astromical

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Maybe the MINT 9 designation?

+1

When I buy autographs, I pay no premium for a high number grade. But a lot of people for sure do.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

It's perfectly genuine, and to me worth less than $1500. I feel that might even be a bit generous.

I could care less about the signature grade in this or any other instance. Do you have working eyes, or even one functioning eye? Congratulations, you have what it takes to grade autographs.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

It's perfectly genuine, and to me worth less than $1500. I feel that might even be a bit generous.

I could care less about the signature grade in this or any other instance. Do you have working eyes, or even one functioning eye? Congratulations, you have what it takes to grade autographs.

I wish! They give a blind "Willie mays" in scrunched sharpie a 10, but a bold vintage ballpoint a 9, same with Aaron. Their auto grades barely make sense. 6 is barely legible...SIX! Show me a psa 1 auto grade, please

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Ted,

It's all just further fuel for the argument, isn't it?

I'd much rather have a gorgeous, career-era fountain pen signature than an infirmed, end-of-life piece signed for the collectibles circuit any day. Who cares if it's a "8"?

[theshleps]

this sold yesterday for 4800
https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com...?itemid=140039

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by theshleps

this sold yesterday for 4800
https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com...?itemid=140039

Thoughts? Last TWO sold for 7800

Sincerely...the bridesmaid

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

Ted,

It's all just further fuel for the argument, isn't it?

I'd much rather have a gorgeous, career-era fountain pen signature than an infirmed, end-of-life piece signed for the collectibles circuit any day. Who cares if it's a "8"?

Oh absolutely agree. 1000%

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

I wish! They give a blind "Willie mays" in scrunched sharpie a 10, but a bold vintage ballpoint a 9, same with Aaron. Their auto grades barely make sense. 6 is barely legible...SIX! Show me a psa 1 auto grade, please

I have one that might qualify. A Bob Cousy photo with a signature so faded it might not even scan. But it is there.

[Kaneen]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

I wish! They give a blind "Willie mays" in scrunched sharpie a 10, but a bold vintage ballpoint a 9, same with Aaron. Their auto grades barely make sense. 6 is barely legible...SIX! Show me a psa 1 auto grade, please

I've always thought the autograph grading service is complete nonsense...laughable really. It seems that the only standard that qualifies an autograph for the 10 grade is:
"Yep, the pen worked."

And then you have dealers/sellers who jack the price way out of proportion on these 10 graded signatures, and "investors" who eat that stuff up (but probably know very little) who pay these upcharged gouges...ridiculous.

When I run across an autographed card I need for a set/project I'm working on, I just cringe when it has an autograph grade on the slab. Those stupid grades mean only one thing - "Bend over Kevin."

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by balltrash

I am an autograph collector though I do dabble in cards. It is always interesting to me when people who fall to the card side of the hobby express that they would never collect autographs because "opinions are all over the board." I believe it is like any other area of collecting: do your homework and form your own opinions. In time you will see the pattern that what you consider real will largely overlap what other knowledgeable collectors do too. The converse argument that no one should buy high value cards (in better grade) because they must be altered is shored up by comments on this message board (card side) almost every day.

And while that Clemente autograph is perfectly real, in my opinion, the price is an outlier. I am all for third party authentication but it is amazing to me what PSA plastic and a number grade will do for value.

Regarding the part in bold, very many card collectors say this kind of thing. Another one is that "No autograph can be determined authentic unless you personally witnessed the signing".
I must've heard that one over 100 times.

It would be akin to the autograph collector seeing an altered card or reprint residing in a PSA graded slab, and saying that no card is legitimate unless you saw it produced at the factory. There are fake autographs and fake cards. If you properly educate yourself, you can learn to avoid both.

And yes, the number grades PSA puts on things like this Clemente autograph are worthless and immensely overrated.