Postcard necesito informacion

[Roland 49]

I need information about these post cards, series name and year, thank you.

[richardcards]

Rolando

not familar these but look like
exhbit post cards 1928.
I like these.

[nolemmings]

The Gonzales and Marsans cards definitely came from Felix Mendelsohn's m101-6 set (1917-20), but that set was not post-card size, closer to 4 1/2 X 6 1/2. Someone used his photos-- I note these two did not have Mendelsohn's copyright symbol on them, so that may have helped them to use the images.

[Roland 49]

Richard, in the 90s I bought a lot of about 70 postcards from this time, I separated the one from the Cubans in an envelope, and a few days ago I found them, but I don't have catalogs where they could appear, I thought that maybe some of the members Could you give me information, thanks for you.

[Roland 49]

Todd, my specialty is Cuban baseball, I thank you for the information, all the postcards that I show have the same reverse, except for the last one from Gonzalez in S. Louis, that one looks more modern and from another series. Thanks

[nolemmings]

Yes I know. The Gonzales card, if authentic, is from the Sears 1946 set.

[nolemmings]

Yes I know. The Gonzales card, if authentic, is from the Sears 1946 set.

To my knowledge, Mendelsohn neither made postcards nor authorized others to use his images from m101-6; however, a few other card sets in the '20's "borrowed" some of his images. In any event and as you know from their careers, the Gonzalez and Marsans photos would have been from circa 1917 when first used. Gonzalez also appears in the m101-6 set with the Giants--thus from 1919 or 1920 (same photo, different caption). Good luck tracking down the info.

[Roland 49]

Todd, you tell me that Gonzalez, Sears's is authentic, so the others, are they forgeries?

[nolemmings]

No Roland, that is not what I am saying. I do not collect the Sears set, nor many postcards of any kind, so I am not in a position to say if any are authentic or not. I do not know if they were reprinted, and if so, with proper permission or not.

I can say with some confidence the two cards you show that use Mendelsohn's photos were not issued in the 1917-20 time frame that m101-6 was distributed. Some of his images were used in sets from the 1920's, but from what I have seen, those were in recognized card sets. Whether someone chose to use the photos to create postcards, rightly or wrongly, I do not know. It is known in the hobby that many reprints using old photos were created in the 1970s and surrounding decades.

[cardinalcollector]

I've never seen any reprints of the Cardinals and Browns Sears issue. They are very difficult to find.

[Roland 49]

Todd, I understand it very well, here in the Cuban collections of cards and postcards, copies were also made, with the same images, so I show it in my catalogs, once they showed me a Lemke catalog and I saw that it had cards, postcards, pins. etc. I thought that perhaps what I showed could be cataloged, now you will see an example that I have in my catalog Volume 2, one is from the collection of cigars "Trinidad y Hno" and the other from "Chocolate La Imperial" and they show the same photo, one It is a postcard and Trinidad's is 8x10 inches, I have several more of this, thanks for the information.

[Roland 49]

Randy, thanks for your information.

[rhettyeakley]

Rolando, Tengo tres ejemplos de esta serie. Nunca he visto a otros y no sabia que hay un Luque.

Mis ejemplos...

[rhettyeakley]

I got the 3 examples I have from Ryan's auction a few years back.

It appears these cards were issued to show the players that had played in the Major Leagues from Cuba, I suspect they simply used the available art from the M101-6 set for Marsans and Gonzalez. They have the look and feel of 1920's postcards so I do not question the authenticity of them. Just not sure if they were issued in Cuba or the USA... the backs being in English is interesting but doesn't mean they couldn't have been made and distributed in Cuba.

[Roland 49]

Rhett, those postcards I bought in the 90s were about 70, and those of Cubans I separated them in an envelope at that time, and a few days ago I found them, the rest were from Major League Baseball players of that time, many have passed years and I do not remember if the reverse of the others was the same, and I do not know if I have the rest at the moment, what you explain is correct, you wrote that you have 3 examples, but I do not see the photos of them, if you can send the photos, greetings.

[rhettyeakley]

sometimes the images don't work on Google Chrome (at least for me) so try a different browser if you are using Chrome.

[Roland 49]

Rhett, I always communicate with net54 from my mobile and I use Chrome, now I connected through the computer and the 3 images of Acosta, Dibut and Palmero looked very good, I had not seen Acosta's, a while ago I connected to Ebay cubanbaseball and I see that a Luque Exhibit postcard is for sale, it is the same image but in mine it is seen behind part of another player's uniform, stands etc. and in Exhibit's, none of the above, all blurry, what do you think? the 2 photos go.

[Cubanball]

Saludos Rolando, I have been researching these postcards for some time. I first saw the three examples that Rhett posted when they first appeared in auction. I found it interesting that all three had the punched hole. I am including a photo of the Marsans postcard also with the punch hole. In his excellent book "Exhibit and Related Sports Arcade Cards," Adam S. Warshaw, listed a set identified as the "1922 Baseball Postcards" that pictured an example of a postcard with the same style back as the one you have pictured above and also the punched hole. Mr. Warshaw describes these as frequently confused with the "1922 Eastern Exhibit" set, since they used the same player photos and similar postcard backs, but not being Exhibit cards at all only postcards.

Mr. Warshaw explains that the Eastern Exhibit Supply Company of Philadelphia got sued by the Exhibit Supply Company of Chicago, the original makers of Exhibit cards, for infringement on their rights and name and lost. The Exhibit Supply Company then takes over their remaining inventory.

It is possible that the makers of the "1922 Baseball Postcards" were somehow related to the makers of the "1922 Eastern Exhibit" set and also made the Cuban examples to be sold to the Cuban market. In making the Cuban subset they used available photos including the two Mendelsohn photos for Mike Gonzalez and Armando Marsans. This last part is only speculation on my part.

[Cubanball]

Here are scans of the Mike Gonzalez 1946 Sears Postcard and 1917-20 Felix Mendelsohn's M101-6 cards from my collection.

[Cubanball]

Below are the original photo used for the Mike Gonzalez 1917-20 Felix Mendelsohn and Baseball Postcard and the Adolfo Luque photo used for the Exhibit and Baseball Postcard. As you can see the makers all cropped the photos to produce their cards. The makers of the Exhibit cards often used paints to brush out the background of the photo to leave the player alone as seen in the Luque exhibit card. The makers of the Eastern Exhibit cards and the makers of the Baseball Postcards in question here did not brush out the backgrounds. Leading me to speculate that they may have been one and the same.

[Cubanball]

Next point I would like to make is the similarity between the postcard backs of the Eastern Exhibits and the Baseball Postcards. They are the same except the Eastern Exhibits identify the maker. The Baseball Postcards do not identify the maker. Here is more of my speculation. The Eastern Exhibits are dated to 1922 but I believe the Baseball Postcards were produced later, I will talk more about the dating later. This makes sense since the makers of the Eastern Exhibits got sued and lost. If they themselves or someone related made the Baseball Postcards after the trial they decided not to make Exhibit cards, but make postcards instead and not put the makers name either as to not violate the rights of of the Exhibit Supply Company that had sued them.

[Cubanball]

Next lets look at the name and team designations placed at the center bottom of both the Eastern exhibit (Bancroft) and Baseball Postcards (Palmero). As you can see they are using a different font but similar style.

[Cubanball]

The exception to the name designations listed above are the Mike Gonzalez and Armando Marsans postcards that used the Felix Mendelsohn. As you can see above the original mike Gonzalez Felix Mendelsohn photo had his name and team designation placed on it. The makers of the Baseball postcards simply cropped the photo to their specifications and left the name and team as is.

[Cubanball]

Finally a point about the dating. The Baseball Postcards in question here have as their subjects all Cuban born players that debuted in the Major Leagues in the first quarter of the 20th Century. A breakdown of their Major League playing days shows the varying years the players appear in the majors.

Armando Marsans 1911-1918 (With Yankees 1917-1918)
Mike Gonzalez 1912-1932 (With Giants 1919-1921)
Adolfo Luque 1914-1935 (With Reds 1918-1929)
Emilio Palmero 1915-1916, 1921, 1926 & 1928 (With Giants 1915-1916)
Jose Acosta 1920-1922 (With Washington 1920-1921 and White Sox 1922)
Pedro Dibut 1923-1925 (With Reds 1924-1925)

Based on this I point to the Pedro Dibut card picturing him in Reds uniform. Since he played with the Reds in 1924 and 1925 I believe the earliest date possible for the production of the Cuban Baseball Postcards is 1924. This also makes sense because of the explosion in baseball card production in Cuba in 1924. Someone wanting to profit from this might want to make a postcard set that could be marketed in Cuba at the time.

In conclusion I speculate that what happened is this. The Eastern Exhibit Company produces the Eastern Exhibit set in 1922. Because they get sued and lose they or someone affiliated with them produces the Baseball Postcards set referred to by Adam in his book. That set uses the same subjects found in the Eastern Exhibit set, but in postcard form with no maker name affiliation. A little later (1924 or 1925) they produce the Cuban Baseball Postcards subset for the Cuban market. Let me know what any of you think.