1952 Topps Mantle vs T206 Wagner

[Rhotchkiss]

This PSA 8, 1952 Topps Mantle just sold in Heritage for $1,470,000. This PSA A, t206 Wagner sold in REA in April 2022 for $1,528,000. If you had $1.5mm, and you had to use it to buy one of these two cards, which would you buy and why?

The t206 Wagner is butt ugly and real banged up. But the t206 Wagner is the icon of all iconic cardboard, and there are FAR fewer t206 Wagners than 1952 Mantles. Plus, I collect prewar and love Honus. For all those reasons, I would buy the Wagner

[ullmandds]

that's a tough call for me. The mantle is a gorgeous example...and the most iconic card of the 2nd half of the 20th c. The wags is butt ugly...only 80% of a card really. But the t206 wags is "the" card of the hobby. I'd take the wags and I'd consider having a custom case made that would "add" the missing borders...I could live with that!!!

[Johnny630]

Mantle

[3-2-count]

Reading the question without taking a look at the pics of the two choices, being that I'm a pre war collector I would have figured hands down Honus would have been my pick.

In this instance though due to the heavy trim that's been done to the Wagner the 52 Mick would easily be my choice.

Theres just too much missing of this Honus for my liking and this particular Mantle would be too nice to pass up. Long term I think this Mick trumps that Honus. My two cents!

[mrreality68]

I would go with the Wagner and I actually like the look of the card.
Both are great cards but I believe the upside potential on the Wagner is still greater than on that Mantle(although both have upside potential)

Lower inventory and great demand for them.

The Mantle has a lot of inventory (not at that grade) but a lot of inventory and even with great demand there is so much total inventory easier to get a Mantle vs a Wagner

[notfast]

Wagner and its not close for me.

[hcv123]

If the question was Mantle or Wagner as a player long term - from a value perspective my answer would be Mantle because I think he will have more staying power 50-100 years from now.
BUT, that wasn't the question.
The T206 Wagner I believe will retain its iconic status for generations to come and has status in its own right that is larger than Wagner himself. So will the 52 Mantle.
While I agree in an absolute sense there are more Mantle's than Wagners, when you throw those 2 specific cards into the mix, you are comparing one of the best quality 52 Mantle's against one of the worst quality T206 Wag's.
I've gotta go with the quality on the Mantle over the Wagner.

[Tyruscobb]

There are less than 60 known T206 Wagners. It is the world’s most iconic sports card. ‘52 Mantles are relatively plentiful. Across all the TPGs, there are more ‘52 graded Mantle 8s than there are Wagners.

Give me the Wagner. Value aside, I’d even probably take the Wagner that is almost cut in half over this Mantle.

[bnorth]

The Wagner al day. I have owned many beat up and trimmed tobacco cards. I couldn't care less about centering but hate cards with a tilt to them. Unless it is a horrible picture that is one ugly Mantle.

[111gecko]

Wagner..just because of the scarcity. ('52 Mantle is still my favorite card though)..

Love this question though as it brings up an interesting point:

How many Mantles vs. Wagners are still in homes/barns/buildings that haven't been graded or known of?

My vote would be there are less than 5 "unknown" Wagners vs. 100s if not a couple thousand Mantles sitting in boxes.

[parkplace33]

The mantle and it’s not close.

[Jcosta19]

I almost said Mantle but I'd be just as happy with a lower grade Mantle and couldn't find a Wagner for cheaper so Wagner it is.

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[rjackson44]

Wagner not even close

[seablaster]

Originally Posted by 3-2-count

Reading the question without taking a look at the pics of the two choices, being that I'm a pre war collector I would have figured hands down Honus would have been my pick.

In this instance though due to the heavy trim that's been done to the Wagner the 52 Mick would easily be my choice.

Theres just too much missing of this Honus for my liking and this particular Mantle would be too nice to pass up. Long term I think this Mick trumps that Honus. My two cents!

This...verbatim.

[brianp-beme]

The Wagner would be sitting on my Mantel at home.

Brian

[Peter_Spaeth]

My gut instantly chose Mantle before I even thought about it. I'll go with that.

[Writehooks]

For me it's Mick -- for the simple reason I saw him play. There's a visceral connection.

[NYYFan63]

Mantle


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[ClementeFanOh]

Given the specifics laid out, I'd choose the Mantle. If the Wagner was even a
"1" that looked like it was run over by a truck, I'd go Wagner. The Wagner in
the example is mutilated so, since it's opponent is a gorgeous 52 Mantle, I'd
go Mickey within these parameters. Trent King

[Rhotchkiss]

I wish I knew how to make a poll. If someone knows/can, lets add a poll to this. I put the line at dead even!

[MR RAREBACK]

I would take the Wagner , just to say I own a Wagner

[puckpaul]

Originally Posted by 3-2-count

Reading the question without taking a look at the pics of the two choices, being that I'm a pre war collector I would have figured hands down Honus would have been my pick.

In this instance though due to the heavy trim that's been done to the Wagner the 52 Mick would easily be my choice.

Theres just too much missing of this Honus for my liking and this particular Mantle would be too nice to pass up. Long term I think this Mick trumps that Honus. My two cents!

+1. I would add that i think both values are at considerable risk for different reasons. The Mantle because there are too many of them. The
Wagner because it’s rare but not THAT rare, and it’s an ugly example and buyers might not show up on a different regime. But maybe this state of excess dollars is here to stay and I will be wrong.

[jingram058]

If someone said "I'll give you either one. Not both, you can have either one. And if you ever try to sell it, Johnny Two Times will pay you a little call." I would pick the Wagner. Not to say I don't like Mantle, I do. I just like Honus Wagner more. So it's not about card value, or speculation, just my personal likes only.

[bmattioli]

Without a doubt the Wagner. Would be a dream come true..

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I wish I knew how to make a poll. If someone knows/can, lets add a poll to this. I put the line at dead even!

Consider it done. For this forum, I think Wags will get it (but maybe not LOL), as to which one will be taken. But in other forums, I don't know. We'll see. I think as much as I am a pre-war collector, that Wags is missing too much for me. I couldn't pay a million (or more) for a card that looks like that, not even a BN Ruth.

edited to hedge my bet
.

[t206fanatic]

Wagner for me

[Lorewalker]

Without even looking at either card I go with Mantle. Easy choice.

[raulus]

If I actually had to pay for it myself, then probably neither.

If money were no object, and I could only take one, and I was buying simply based on future expected appreciation, I would probably take the Wagner. If I were buying for my personal collection, I would probably take the Mantle.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

If I actually had to pay for it myself, then probably neither.

If money were no object, and I could only take one, and I was buying simply based on future expected appreciation, I would probably take the Wagner. If I were buying for my personal collection, I would probably take the Mantle.

I would hate you as a witness.

[BearBailey]

The mantle but only because I wouldn’t consider the Wagner more than part of a card. Sure you could say you have a Wagner or part of one, but I couldn’t.

[Bestdj777]

Wagner. Would immediately get the card restored though.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I would hate you as a witness.

Sounds like a compliment to me!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

Sounds like a compliment to me!

As Lee Bailey would say when a witness gave some evasive qualified answer, no, listen to the question.

I had a colleague who would sometimes say (at a deposition, he wouldn't dare be a smart ass at a trial), that's an answer to A question, but not my question.

[fkm_bky]

It’s close, but I’d take the Wagner. It’s too iconic and rare of a card compared to the Mantle and would fit perfectly in my HOF portrait run. The Mantle is an amazing card.

Bill

[JustinD]

Not really close for me.

Granted it’s a higher grade Mantle, but it’s still a card so plentiful I could pick from a selection of 6 on Christmas Day and hundreds are sold each year if not thousands.

Wagner is iconic and a needle in a haystack. It feels like I have seen more come up in the past couple years than the decade before due to prices. If the market slows,we may not see another for a year or two.

Give me unlimited funds and I want a Wagner. The only other icon of collecting even close is an inverted Jenny and I would that that instead of the Mantle too.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Leon

Consider it done. For this forum, I think Wags will get it (but maybe not LOL), as to which one will be taken. But in other forums, I don't know. We'll see. I think as much as I am a pre-war collector, that Wags is missing too much for me. I couldn't pay a million (or more) for a card that looks like that, not even a BN Ruth.

edited to hedge my bet
.

Oo-oh the forum izzzzz A changin!!

[drcy]

It was a no-brainer (Wagner, of course!), until I saw the photo.

[Powell]

Mantle but if the Wagner was not altered the Wagner

[Wanaselja]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

that's a tough call for me. The mantle is a gorgeous example...and the most iconic card of the 2nd half of the 20th c. The wags is butt ugly...only 80% of a card really. But the t206 wags is "the" card of the hobby. I'd take the wags and I'd consider having a custom case made that would "add" the missing borders...I could live with that!!!

Me too.

[sb1]

Having had both, the Wagner is a fugly card, always reminded me of Mad Magazine's Alfred E. Neuman, the Mantle is a work of art...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by sb1

Having had both, the Wagner is a fugly card, always reminded me of Mad Magazine's Alfred E. Neuman, the Mantle is a work of art...

Funny, I have the opposite take, that the Wagner is a fabulous image that captures his likeness and character perfectly, whereas the Mantle is a poor rendition of the photo on which it is based, and in the translation lost much of its resemblance to him. If you think it looks like him it's only because you're so used to it. It still is what it is, a top two iconic card, but with an asterisk IMO.

[Fred]

I'm definitely into prewar vintage more than post war cards. However, when I see that Wags, it's just so "off". I picked the 52T PSA8 Mantle because at least it's iconic and in really nice shape.

If it were a Wags in a "2"grade (complete card with a few small issues), then I'd take that over a PSA9 52T Mantle. I'm going to guess a PSA 9 Mantle would probably be valued higher, but having a whole Wags would be like reaching a collecting dream. Someone mentioned "restoring" that cut down Wags. I'd accept something like that instead of the PSA 8 Mantle because the most important parts of the card are "real".

[Rich Falvo]

I'd pick a complete Wagner over the Mantle, but I'd pick a PSA 8 Mantle over a trimmed Wagner w/o borders.

[Popcorn]

love the 52 MM but it’s wagner. it’s a small fraternity that owns one and most of us ain’t in it.

[bnorth]

You can always cut the borders off another T206 and glue them to the Wagner. I heard someone done it to a Ted Williams rookie.

[bbcard1]

You can get a 1952 Topps Mantle any day of the year. It just takes a lot of money. I don't think you can say the same about a Wagner.

[brunswickreeves]

Either card would be a dream to own and for those whom do or have owned them, I'm sure they're incredibly special, and each have their deserving merits.

If this PSA 8 Mantle (which has a tilt with right boarder smaller at top progressing to wider right boarder at bottom), the Wags.

Looking out 100+ years from now, the span of time between these card's dates of issuance will grow more narrow. However, scarcity and availability will likely change in Wag's favor, as more Mick's are slabbed when this collecting generation dies off and more raw versions are unearthed and sent in for grading/sale.

IMHO, T206 Wags is the Mona Lisa of baseball cards and genesis of rare/expensive.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

The mantle and it’s not close.

Agreed. If it at least had the borders I could see going for the Wagner. I believe that are only 3 52 Mantles graded a 10, and 6 graded 9. There are more than 9 t206 Wagners nicer than that copy. Setting my personal bias as a Mantle collector aside, I wouldn't spend 1.5m on that Wagner even if I had it.

[Casey2296]

Which card hits $2,000,000 first?

[babraham]

Originally Posted by Rich Falvo

I'd pick a complete Wagner over the Mantle, but I'd pick a PSA 8 Mantle over a trimmed Wagner w/o borders.

That's what I'm thinking as well.