Hey T206 guys, tell us how you got so interested in front/back combos ?

[tedzan]

I became interested in T206 cards in 1981 (upon reading Bill Heitman's 1980 publication, "The Monster"). My "obsession" with front/back combinations
started with this Carl Lundgren / EPDG card in 1984, when I acquired it from our ole buddy, Barry Sloate. I have a sentimental attachment to his EPDG
card, for it opened up a whole new world of T-card collecting for me these past 37 years.

Well, that's my story.....so, let's hear your stories of what motivated you to become interested in front/back combos ?


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TED Z

T206 Reference
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[Cmvorce]

Ted, this is such a timely post for me. I’m just beginning my T206 journey. The first 6 cards I acquired were a Red Cobb, Dark Cap Matty, WaJo portrait, Lajoie with bat, Speaker, and Baker. 5 of the 6 are Piedmont 350s. My initial plan was to get all the HOFers first, but that seems too daunting and meant I wouldn’t be able to buy cards as quickly.

My new plan is to collect the set one team at a time, and to get as few repeating backs per team as possible. That should allow me to purchase cards more quickly and collect a variety of backs. First up, the Boston Red Sox, and I’m already loving the rainbow of backs.

That said, if anyone has a low grade Harry Lord, Bill Carrigan, Heinie Wagner Right Shoulder, Tubby Spencer, Harry Niles, or either Jake Stahl’s, in Polar Bear, Cycle, American Beauty, EPDG, Hindu, Sweet Cap OP, or Piedmont 42, I’m all ears!

[tedzan]

Hi Chris

Great story......I appreciate you sharing it with us.

I may have some extra Boston Red Sox guys with tougher backs.


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[tedzan]

As my interest increased in these various front/back permutations, I became thoroughly fascinated with the group of 63 subjects
in the series which we refer to as the 350/460 Series.

Illustrated here are the 22 tobacco advertisement backs that were printed on the T206 Subjects in the 350/460 Series.............
Note that all 22 of these backs were not equally printed on each of the 63 subjects. There is a "mutually-exclusive" factor in play.

460-type backs




.
............. Factory #42 .............



350-type backs




Assorted backs





OK guys, you serious T206 collectors.....why not chime in here with your stories ?

Does it get any more fascinating in this great hobby than "Talkin' T206's"


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[FrankWakefield]

I like seeing Barry Sloate's name pop back up, quite a collector of ball cards. And The Monster was great inspiration for anyone trying to wrap their mind around 520someodd little ball cards.

And collecting the white border cards by team, that's how I have my little cards sorted now. That's how the street corner kids did in 111 years ago. I've found it rewarding to see the uniform changes on a team as you see the series progression.

Chris, the idea of maximizing the different backs in a team subset I'd not considered before. To the extent that I've pursued different backs of a given card it was either because I really like the card (Reulbach with glove, Huggins portrait) or because I already have a tough back of the card (I have one Broad Leaf of a player so I've gathered other backs of that card, and a Carolina Brights of a different player and now several other backs for that guy).

[nineunder71]

Good Morning Ted,

I have attached a link to an article my friend Luke and I put together a little over 4 years ago for his website.

The article goes over how I got started and how I used to just see pictures of vintage cards growing up in my Beckett Baseball Card monthly magazine but had no access to purchase until that beautiful first introduction to eBay in 2004. I’ve been hooked ever since. Hope you enjoy

http://www.thatt206life.com/2017/11/...olton-english/


Cheers All,
Colton

[tedzan]

Hi Colton

Your story is very enjoyable. Thanks for posting it here.

And, I really appreciate your comment..... "that beautiful first introduction to eBay in 2004".

I discovered ebay in the late 1990's, which enabled me to complete my 1st set of T206's (minus Plank and Wagner).
And, to complete my run of the T206 backs (minus a BROAD LEAF 460 card).


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[jcmtiger]

I collected Detroit, completed with all 4 Cobb’s , now all sold.

[nineunder71]

Thanks Ted,
I’m extremely lucky to have picked up a BL460 Baker a few years back for my HOF back run. I’m now only missing BL350, Uzit, Drum & Carolina Brights

It’s been a fun ride!

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by nineunder71

Thanks Ted,
I’m extremely lucky to have picked up a BL460 Baker a few years back for my HOF back run. I’m now only missing BL350, Uzit, Drum & Carolina Brights

It’s been a fun ride!

Yes Colton..... "It's been a fun ride" .....and, sometimes a roller-coaster ride

Anyhow......
My 2 favorite T206 backs are the AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 and the UZIT. Especially the UZIT, because I think it was printed in the final T206 production runs (circa Spring 1911).
I have had as many as a dozen UZIT cards throughout the years. Now, only two remain in my collection. I acquired this Schaefer for $15 in Cooperstown, NY in the late 1980's.

.


This Herzog card is from the Smoky Mountains (NC) region where my ole buddy, Ralph T discovered it. To date, it is still the only Herzog/UZIT known. I acquired it from Ralph
some years ago. I regret selling it to David Hall in recent years (we made a deal that I could not refuse).

.


This McGraw is also a unique front/back combo. This McGraw was printed in the Group of 12 from the 460-only Series which I refer to as the "Exclusive 12". A UZIT back is
virtually impossible to find on an Exclusive 12 card. There is a great story associated with how I acquired this very rare T206. I will leave my McGraw story for another day.

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TED Z

T206 Reference
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[Rich Falvo]

I originally just wanted to get one of each Providence player, but that wasn't very hard at only 8 cards. So I then started trying to get more backs to see how close I could get to a master team set. I seriously underestimated how hard it would be to find even the mid-tier backs like Tolstoi, never mind the Broad Leafs, CBs, etc.

[Rhotchkiss]

Hi Ted. Great thread. I havent had time to write my story, but I love the rare backs. Here are a few picks (because pictures are worth a 1000 words)

[Cmvorce]

Ted, can’t wait for the McGraw story!!

[nineunder71]

Ryan,
Extremely impressive!!!! (As Always!)

Thanks for Sharing

Just Wow,

Colton

[MVSNYC]

Ryan:

"T206 Rare Backs? Hold my beer."



Awesome cards, as always.

Ted, I'll post a few tonight, and my story.

[Cmvorce]

I hadn’t been aware of Old Mill blue backs until Ryan’s post. Made for some very interesting research this morning. Once again, I love this forum so much.

[tedzan]

I have received a couple of requests for my McGraw/UZIT story. So here goes. First, though, why my interest in McGraw ? There is a "Managerial legacy" that has transpired
for about 80 years in the New York Baseball scene which has produced winners..... McGraw > Stengel > Billy Martin. Anyhow, I'll leave this story for another day.

Years ago, I posted my theory about the Exclusive 12 group. I had about 7 cards of this McGraw with different backs. My research indicated that the each of the Exclusive 12
subjects were printed with 13 backs. I already had 2 "toughies", red HINDU and OLD MILL. But, I knew the UZIT would be almost impossible in completing this McGraw run.

Jan 2017, a fellow from the Philadelphia area contacts me to see if I would be interested in purchasing his BB card collection comprising of approx. 125 cards. Twenty of them
were T206's, and the remaining 105 were TOPPS star and rookie cards (1962 - 1980). He had acquired these cards back in the late 1970's at the Willow Grove Show.
I asked him to describe the T206's. This group of cards included 14 commons and 6 - HOFer's. One of which was the McGraw (glove) with a UZIT back.
I told him I was very interested and asked him to send me scans of the T206's.
This story gets more complicated, as several "big-time" dealers contacted him and wanted the McGraw card. However, they were not interested in the remainder of the cards.

I had the presence of mind to realize that this fellow wanted to sell all of his cards in one deal. Therefore, I offered him a certain amount for the McGraw and another amount
for the remainder of his collection. He was very pleased with my offer and gave me the deal.


Showing off my complete 13-card run of Mr. McGraw. Also, I'm approaching near complete runs of other Exclusive 12 guys.....Crandall.....Devore.....Duffy.....Ford.


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Factory #42.....................Factory #42










. . .
Factory #30



TED Z

T206 Reference
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[MVSNYC]

During the summer of 1991 (exactly 30 years ago), I acquired my first few T206 cards (Elberfeld, Devlin and Kroh); the first two were Pied & Sweet Cap, but the Kroh was a Polar Bear, clearly not rare, but a little different and slightly less common...Well, that was enough for me, I was hooked from the minute I saw the Polar Bear...

Anyway, from that day forward, I was just enthralled with studying & acquiring as many different backs as possible. I've always been involved with art and design, so the various design motifs of the different backs and graphic design/typography just always appealed to me. I'm just as passionate about rare backs today, as I was 30 years ago.

Here's a few...

[atx840]

As a Canadian I just wasn't exposed to bb that much as a kid. What I was exposed to, thanks to my father, was collecting and the rarer the better.

T206s just seem to be the perfect set to collect, tougher backs, low pop combinations, printing errors, test scraps and proofs.

I just really dig the rare stuff.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Hi Ted. Great thread. I havent had time to write my story, but I love the rare backs. Here are a few picks (because pictures are worth a 1000 words)

Hey Ryan

Some really great cards....and yes...."pictures are worth a 1000 words".


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[tedzan]

Hi Mike

Great cards, and thanks for posting your story.


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[tedzan]

Originally Posted by atx840

As a Canadian I just wasn't exposed to bb that much as a kid. What I was exposed to, thanks to my father, was collecting and the rarer the better.

T206s just seem to be the perfect set to collect, tougher backs, low pop combinations, printing errors, test scraps and proofs.

I just really dig the rare stuff.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey Chris.... Thanks for posting your story.

And, I'll match your fine display with my counterparts to your subjects......


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Crawford's AB 460 "twin" to your UZIT

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TED Z

T206 Reference
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[Kevin]

I lucked into a few cards in the 90s. American Beauty, Lenox, Sovereign. I picked up a decent Walter Johnson portrait with the Sovereign back in the late 90s. Not many off backs, but they are there.

Then I listened to “The Monster” podcast and found you guys. I saw what Josh and Colton are doing. Then I read about “back runs”. Kind of want to sell my Piedmonts and Sweet Caps now and re-invest.

[steve B]

When I was first interested in T206, and go the Sport Americana checklist book in 1978. That's when i found out just how many different brands there were and figured I'd try to get at least one card from each brand.

I'm close, but you can probably figure out easily which ones I never got. Once I joined here, I learned more about the factories, which i sort of knew, and which ones came with different series. And that made the list a bit longer.

Until recently, there was one I needed that was still something I could afford, now not so much.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by steve B

When I was first interested in T206, and go the Sport Americana checklist book in 1978. That's when i found out just how many different brands there were and figured I'd try to get at least one card from each brand.

I'm close, but you can probably figure out easily which ones I never got. Once I joined here, I learned more about the factories, which i sort of knew, and which ones came with different series. And that made the list a bit longer.

Until recently, there was one I needed that was still something I could afford, now not so much.

Hi Steve

Your last comment is so true.

To complete my T206 back run, I need a brown LENOX. And, I should have acquired it couple of years ago when I had a chance.


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[MVSNYC]

Chris, awesome cards!

Ted, thanks! Your cards are aren't too shabby either.

(We can't let this thread fizzle out...let's hear more stories, and see more rare backs!)

[BCauley]

The backs don't mean all that much to me, though I do appreciate how each back looks. Someday, I hope to accumulate a copy of each back and have them placed all in one nice frame.

[parkerj33]

As a recent completer of the 520 set, I didn't worry too much about backs. If I was lucky to get some oddballs, I kept them over the piedmont/sweet caps. I still consider myself very early in the game though...so where to go from here might mean adding back runs, haven't decided. Personally, I'd rather add a t205 set than a back variation that requires you to flip the card over to see the difference.

I am wondering how close David Hall got to the known master front/back set. Obviously there are a few single copies around that he couldn't pry away...maybe he got as far as possible and that prompted him to bail out.

My respect to all the others on the hunt. And thanks to TedZ and PatC and others for their tireless academic pursuit. I for one, am fascinated on the evolution of our collective knowledge of the set. What did we know and when did we learn it. For example, when did people realize there was a 350/460 series that was unique from just 350 and 460? Was that Scot Reader in 2006? What new information only came to light due to Heitman's work, or Lew Lipset?

As an example, the set was originally (pre Burdick) referred to as the 521 set....but that was only coincidental with the number of subjects...521 was just the next number available to assign to the set....and at that time the number of subjects may have been around 520-522....originally sweeney no "B" was thought to be a unique intentional subject, but now has been relegated as just a printer error (missing red ink).

[steve B]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Steve

Your last comment is so true.

To complete my T206 back run, I need a brown LENOX. And, I should have acquired it couple of years ago when I had a chance.


TED Z

T206 Reference
.

Most of what I need is pretty obvious. The usual supects that you just don't find.
Drum
Uzit
Ty Cobb
Are the brands I never got, and I'm ok with calling Ty Cobb not a T206 for that purpose sort of like Ignoring the big 4.
I didn't really get into the various factories/colors etc until I got started here.
Broadleaf 460
Red Hindu
Brown Lenox
And the one that seems out of reach at the moment, Piedmont 42.

And I'm calling Brown and blue OM production oddities to avoid putting them on the list and actually making it longer.

What's strange is that I have more SC factory 25s than the other factories.
And once I got into the different factories, I realized I'd somehow never picked up a SC 649. At least that was an easy pickup.

I still hold out some hope that I'll stumble on a Piedmont 42 that hasn't been listed right or something like that.

Back when I bought my first few T206s I thought someday I'd have all the cards with all the backs. Of course, commons were 1.50, maybe less for beaters and nobody really cared about most of the odd backs.
Should have bought more and more Hof ers over the years
Gotta "love" the good old 20/20 hindsight.

[Rhotchkiss]

Because its a slow day at work, here is part of a master back run, in order of what I generally deem the toughest (left to right). I can only add 18 pics, so that's why I have limited this to 18 backs. I am including all color variations as well as T213-1, T215-1, and blank bc they were distributed during the 1909-11 time frame, have the caption in black ink and contain the same fronts as "accepted" T206s (plus, I think they certainly could be considered T206s).

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Because its a slow day at work, here is part of a master back run, in order of what I generally deem the toughest (left to right). I can only add 18 pics, so that's why I have limited this to 18 backs. I am including all color variations as well as T213-1, T215-1, and blank bc they were distributed during the 1909-11 time frame, have the caption in black ink and contain the same fronts as "accepted" T206s (plus, I think they certainly could be considered T206s).

Great cards but I don't think we should try to rewrite history of T213 and T215. They are clearly not T206. Very different and many differences. Never were and never will be 06s. Check your ACC... Kind of like changing the alphabet. But we can have another thread debate about that. Phenomenal back run!
.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Leon

Great cards but I don't think we should try to rewrite history of T213 and T215. They are clearly not T206. Very different and many differences. Never were and never will be 06s. Check your ACC... Kind of like changing the alphabet. But we can have another thread debate about that. Phenomenal back run!
.

I hear ya Leon, but I think you could argue that some of the T206s should not be "T206s". Regardless, history is not mine to rewrite. I think more in terms of back runs and back variations And, when doing a back run of a T206 pose, I, personally, feel that one must have all of the 1909-11 variations of that pose, which includes T213-1 and T215-1, and, ideally, the back run would include T213-2/3/Fact 8, T214, and T215-2 and T215 pirate, all of which are indisputably NOT T206s.

[tedzan]

It's the challenge of the hunt that excites me. These T206 F/B combos certainly win me over in the department.
For example, this A - B- C- D connection took me seven years to complete. This DRUM card of Frank Delehanty
is the only known one....it is unique.




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TED Z

T206 Reference
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