This is what's wrong with the average ebay buyer

[Exhibitman]

This is why I do not believe anything an eBay buyer tells me:

________made you an offer 6 Nov 2021 at 5:28:20pm PDT
Offer Price:
$300.00 ( 1 x $300.00 )
Buyer's Message:
Best i can do , if it helps, either way thanks.

_______made you an offer 6 Nov 2021 at 6:19:05pm PDT
Offer Price:
$325.00 ( 1 x $325.00 )
Offer Declined6 Nov 2021 at 5:28:20pm PDT

_______made you an offer6 Nov 2021 at 6:19:16pm PDT
Offer Price:
$351.00 ( 1 x $351.00 )

So the best he can do is $300...until fifty minutes later? What changed? Perhaps a sudden inheritance? Maybe found some change in the couch cushions?

And why do these idiots think I care what "the best [they] can do is" anyway? That's a stupid argument. "Yeah, the best I can do is to get to work at 10:00, boss. Whaddaya mean I'm fired?"

The outright lying on eBay has gotten much worse with the hobby boom. Lots of newbies who have no connection with the hobby and no compunctions about flat-out lying to get what they want. That, plus they do not know how to read or simply do not bother. I had one newbie order then cancel on 20+ cards because he was pissed at what eBay's Global Shipping charged him. He told me what he thought was reasonable and since it was a profitable enough sale I offered him a refund to that cost but he still reneged. Another guy thought he was buying a dozen $10 cards for $10 just because they were depicted in a scan, despite the listing stating that he is bidding on one card. His excuse was that he didn't read the description...combined with the accusation that I was doing something deceptive. Yeah, when I don't read something I always blame it on someone else: "Why no, officer, I did not read that no parking sign...but had I read it I KNOW it would have been deceptively worded."

Now, all of you kids get off my lawn!

[iwantitiwinit]

They say best I can do. They mean best I want to do.

[Mark17]

That is not a phenomena unique to ebay.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Mark17

That is not a phenomena unique to ebay.

I know, but I was trying to stay on-topic.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

His excuse was that he didn't read the description...combined with the accusation that I was doing something deceptive. Yeah, when I don't read something I always blame it on someone else: "Why no, officer, I did not read that no parking sign...must've been deceptively worded."

Ninety five percent (yes, 95%) of the messages I receive from other ebayers contain a question that is explicitly answered within the listing. When my reply contains "As mentioned in the listing....." the general response is "I just didn't read the listing"????

[ClementeFanOh]

There are plenty of horrid sellers on ebay, who keep those buyers company.
The problems with ebay are parallel to those of highway driving: it's popular,
but you have to hop on with a bunch of idiots who ruin the experience.

Trent King

[mrreality68]

Welcome to the world of EBay

This is also why some sellers will charge over market value.

Because many uneducated collectors/investors will happily pay it.

[perezfan]

I've bought and sold on ebay, many times over the years. Perhaps the recent card boom has brought out a crappy new crop of buyers. But over the past 20 years, I would say there are a lot more bad sellers than buyers.

So many (countless) sellers hide flaws, lie about condition and conveniently leave things out of their pictures and descriptions. And some of their packaging/shipping methods defy all logic.

On the flip-side, I can't recall ever having a buyer refuse to pay, make a return, or renege on a transaction. Just lucky, I suppose.

[ClementeFanOh]

Mark (Perez Fan)- You are spot on. A couple weeks ago, I messaged an
ebay seller about a raw 52 Bowman Don Newcombe. We hadn't done
past business, so I introduced myself and asked if there were any creases
his photo didn't show, and to expand on the flaws/weaknesses of the card.
I was as polite as could be and told him I liked his card... so, he emailed
back and flatly stated he "didn't want to be held accountable" for any detail
about his card! He also made excuses (poor eyesight) about not being able
to answer very basic questions, and flatly refused to answer. THIS is why I
rarely do business on that site. Trent King

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Welcome to the world of EBay

This is also why some buyers will charge over market value.

Because many uneducated collectors/investors will happily pay it.

Uhhhh... I think you might want to reevaluate your definition of "market value"?

Originally Posted by perezfan

I've bought and sold on ebay, many times over the years. Perhaps the recent card boom has brought out a crappy new crop of buyers. But over the past 20 years, I would say there are a lot more bad sellers than buyers.

So many (countless) sellers hide flaws, lie about condition and conveniently leave things out of their pictures and descriptions. And some of their packaging/shipping methods defy all logic.

This ^^^

So many bad sellers. The annoying thing now is that eBay removes valid negative feedback now. Negative feedback rarely sticks in eBay anymore. They realized that if they just delete all the negative feedback that buyers have more confidence in making purchases on eBay. I had a seller list a card as mint condition that showed up with no less than 3 creases on it. Seller fought me and refused to accept a return. EBay customer service got involved forced him to accept a return. So I shipped it back. Tracking showed delivered but eBay's system had a glitch that wouldn't connect the tracking status to the case number, so seller tried again to keep both my money AND the card now. Had to prove to ebay that it was delivered weeks later after he refused to refund. Let negative feedback. Poof, it was gone a few days later. Dude has 100% positive feedback now despite being the shit of the earth. This is happening in the vast majority of cases now. Ebay just removes negative feedback.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Uhhhh... I think you might want to reevaluate your definition of "market value"?



This ^^^

So many bad sellers. The annoying thing now is that eBay removes valid negative feedback now. Negative feedback rarely sticks in eBay anymore. They realized that if they just delete all the negative feedback that buyers have more confidence in making purchases on eBay. I had a seller list a card as mint condition that showed up with no less than 3 creases on it. Seller fought me and refused to accept a return. EBay customer service got involved forced him to accept a return. So I shipped it back. Tracking showed delivered but eBay's system had a glitch that wouldn't connect the tracking status to the case number, so seller tried again to keep both my money AND the card now. Had to prove to ebay that it was delivered weeks later after he refused to refund. Let negative feedback. Poof, it was gone a few days later. Dude has 100% positive feedback now despite being the shit of the earth. This is happening in the vast majority of cases now. Ebay just removes negative feedback.

Hi

I meant some sellers will charge over market value and some buyers will buy it over the current market value

[Jcosta19]

Caveat - this was not on a card

I had a seller just last week accept my offer on a new in box item last week.

I paid and the following day they apologized and said the item isn't available because they just tested the last one they had and it doesn't work.
I could wait 15-20 days for new stock or get a refund.

I said I'd wait (since it was a Christmas gift so no rush) but didn't tell them that.
But I also asked why they tested an item that was new in original sealed box?

No answer on the testing
The next day its marked as shipped without tracking.
I asked what changed and they said they have to mark it because ebay asks them to ship everyday.

Long story short...this crap is much worse than trying to get a deal as a buyer in my opinion.
After a few days I requested a refund today, we will see where this mess goes from here.


Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Eric72]

I've been selling vinyl records on eBay. While slightly different than sports cards, the similarities with listings/customer interactions/sales are abundant.

They're described accurately, graded conservatively, and listed with numerous (clear, not blurry) pictures.

I am responsive to messages and communicate professionally.

The records are packaged securely and shipped the next business day - without exception.

Perhaps not coincidentally, I have nearly zero issues with any of my transactions.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Eric72

I've been selling vinyl records on eBay. While slightly different than sports cards, the similarities with listings/customer interactions/sales are abundant.

They're described accurately, graded conservatively, and listed with numerous (clear, not blurry) pictures.

I am responsive to messages and communicate professionally.

The records are packaged securely and shipped the next business day - without exception.

Perhaps not coincidentally, I have nearly zero issues with any of my transactions.

Wish there were more sellers like you, Eric...

There are, of course more good sellers than bad. But the bad ones tend to stick in your memory bank a lot longer, haha.

Needless to say, it shouldn't be nearly as difficult as they make it.

[Snapolit1]

Most basic rule of negotiating is that when you tell the other side "this is my best and final" or "this is as good as I can do" you don't back off that, or you lose 100% of your credibility.

On ebay I've done pretty well with prewar. Modern cards? The wild west. Buyers are scammers and people pulling crap I've seen 100 times before. I assume young guys wheeling and dealing. I laugh at their transparent hijinks and silly stunts. Refuse to let them aggravate me. At the first sniff of trouble we are done. I'd rather sell my card tp an honorable person for less.

[buymycards]

No, the average buyer is not the way that you portray them. I have sold to over 1000 eBay buyers in the past year, and 99% of are smooth transactions, with no problems. No matter what you do or where you sell, there will always be the 1% who are losers, but the overwhelming % of them are good people.

[Casey2296]

If eBay buyers are shit, stop selling on EBay. Did you counter to his first offer?
I’ve had such great experiences with sellers on eBay, we’ve even kept I. Touch after the transaction. Sellers and buyers wrap their egos in their cards and negotiations, it’s just a financial transaction for gawds sake.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

If eBay buyers are shit, stop selling on EBay. Did you counter to his first offer?
I’ve had such great experiences with sellers on eBay, we’ve even kept I. Touch after the transaction. Sellers and buyers wrap their egos in their cards and negotiations, it’s just a financial transaction for gawds sake.

Exactly, don’t like eBay’s terms? Get off eBay.

[Lorewalker]

I would have to agree with Adam. I think in the last 18 months I have experienced a higher percentage of buyers who have taken a little less than honest approach to negotiating. I assume it is because they feel they have to. Also encountered a lot more dudes with tudes. I think it is more a product of being virtual too much of the time since Covid.

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by buymycards

No, the average buyer is not the way that you portray them. I have sold to over 1000 eBay buyers in the past year, and 99% of are smooth transactions, with no problems. No matter what you do or where you sell, there will always be the 1% who are losers, but the overwhelming % of them are good people.

I kinda agree about finalized transactions, but when you take into account potential buyers, they numbers skew significantly towards Adam.

Pre-smartphone, you clicked on the listing and everything was presented in front of you on your screen. Even if they had some janky HTML or longwinded shipping/return/feedback policy, you could get to the meat of it.

Now, mobile app is not as clear cut. MANY current "buyers" do exactly what savedfrommyspokes said. Click the title, don't read anything, and go directly to "Ask the Seller". This is the 'Offerup' or 'FB Marketplace' effect. Also add in the Amazon effect of getting it in 2 days (free ship, of course) AND no question returns.

I suggest that if you take into account the ridiculous questions, absurd offers, and requests to cancel deals, the ratio of negative interactions to good purchases is high.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

Mark (Perez Fan)- You are spot on. A couple weeks ago, I messaged an
ebay seller about a raw 52 Bowman Don Newcombe. We hadn't done
past business, so I introduced myself and asked if there were any creases
his photo didn't show, and to expand on the flaws/weaknesses of the card.
I was as polite as could be and told him I liked his card... so, he emailed
back and flatly stated he "didn't want to be held accountable" for any detail
about his card! He also made excuses (poor eyesight) about not being able
to answer very basic questions, and flatly refused to answer. THIS is why I
rarely do business on that site. Trent King

And it is because of internet/online sellers like this that grading and TPGs became such a big deal. Except all the grading and TPGs did was create a whole new and different set of issues and problems. Wish there were more in-person shows and auctions to go to. Always liked being able to hold and examine something before I buy it. A huge part of the fun of collecting to me was going to flea markets, garage/estate sales, auctions, card shops, and such. Sitting at my desk perusing Ebay has never been as enjoyable, and never will be, especially when you never really know what you're getting till it finally shows up at your door.

[Brian Van Horn]

"The outright lying on eBay"

Not saying that about buyers or sellers on eBay, but......

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by BobC

...A huge part of the fun of collecting to me was going to flea markets, garage/estate sales, auctions, card shops, and such...

I agree with this. Personally, my attachment to a card is much stronger when I've acquired it in person. Often times, memories about the events surrounding a show or trip to the card shop become inextricably linked to the purchases.

Not once have I ever waxed nostalgic about, "that day when I opened the envelope..."

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I've bought and sold on ebay, many times over the years. Perhaps the recent card boom has brought out a crappy new crop of buyers. But over the past 20 years, I would say there are a lot more bad sellers than buyers.

So many (countless) sellers hide flaws, lie about condition and conveniently leave things out of their pictures and descriptions. And some of their packaging/shipping methods defy all logic.

On the flip-side, I can't recall ever having a buyer refuse to pay, make a return, or renege on a transaction. Just lucky, I suppose.

To the bold part, that is my experience also. We have sellers too lazy to put the correct picture up and they complain about the buyers.

[Jim65]

Sellers do the exact same thing. I've seen many say "thats the lowest I can go" then they end up going lower.

I guess thats Ebay's average seller too?

[Exhibitman]

It's just such a stupid negotiating tactic. I always tell my clients never issue an ultimatum unless you are ready to back it up because otherwise you just destroy your credibility.

Epilogue: while this baboon tossed off trying to save a few bucks someone else bought the card for $420! Our peerless leader Leon once told me, quite perceptively, if you really want a card don't worry about paying a few bucks more for it than you'd like; I guess even a busted clock is right twice a day. I kid you, my friend...

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Our peerless leader Leon once told me, quite perceptively, if you really want a card don't worry about paying a few bucks more for it than you'd like; I guess even a busted clock is right twice a day. I kid you, my friend...

Long term, I regret many things I didn't buy, and several things I sold, but my regrets for over-paying are very few and easily dismissed in comparison.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Another guy thought he was buying a dozen $10 cards for $10 just because they were depicted in a scan, despite the listing stating that he is bidding on one card.

Not gonna lie, I've always thought listings like this are at least a little deceptive. If your auction photo and title don't clearly convey exactly what is being sold - that, is you're requiring people to obtain necessary information from the description - you're asking for trouble. And, for a lot of sellers (not saying you), they're hoping to prey on people who don't read descriptions because they expect titles and photos to be complete.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Not gonna lie, I've always thought listings like this are at least a little deceptive. If your auction photo and title don't clearly convey exactly what is being sold - that, is you're requiring people to obtain necessary information from the description - you're asking for trouble. And, for a lot of sellers (not saying you), they're hoping to prey on people who don't read descriptions because they expect titles and photos to be complete.

I disagree but then I remembered that half of all people are of below average intelligence (think about it), so best not to assume average intelligence. Any listings i post now that show a number of cheap cards but are selling them singly says "1 card ONLY" in the title. That way even an idiot reading the title and not bothering with the description will see it plain as day.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I disagree but then I remembered that half of all people are of below average intelligence (think about it), so best not to assume average intelligence. Any listings i post now that show a number of cheap cards but are selling them singly says "1 card ONLY" in the title. That way even an idiot reading the title and not bothering with the description will see it plain as day.

You're assuming the idiots can read and aren't just looking at the pretty pictures

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Not gonna lie, I've always thought listings like this are at least a little deceptive. If your auction photo and title don't clearly convey exactly what is being sold - that, is you're requiring people to obtain necessary information from the description - you're asking for trouble. And, for a lot of sellers (not saying you), they're hoping to prey on people who don't read descriptions because they expect titles and photos to be complete.

+1 How much intelligence does it take to only show the item(s) actually for sale. Maybe those sellers are below average.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by bnorth

+1 How much intelligence does it take to only show the item(s) actually for sale. Maybe those sellers are below average.

Not intelligence, just time. Listing each cheap card singly is a huge time-suck.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I've bought and sold on ebay, many times over the years. Perhaps the recent card boom has brought out a crappy new crop of buyers. But over the past 20 years, I would say there are a lot more bad sellers than buyers.

So many (countless) sellers hide flaws, lie about condition and conveniently leave things out of their pictures and descriptions. And some of their packaging/shipping methods defy all logic.

On the flip-side, I can't recall ever having a buyer refuse to pay, make a return, or renege on a transaction. Just lucky, I suppose.

I agree... sellers have always been a much bigger problem on eBay than buyers. The only people with experience on the platform who think buyers are the problem are sellers - and usually the shady ones. lol

[GrewUpWithJunkWax]

Some people are better negotiators than others. Some enjoy the art of the deal, the back & forth. For some, it's a put off. When in person, it's obviously easier to read each other, but online you can't.

Some sellers price a bit higher, leaving room negotiation. They know that discussion of price goes down, not up.

You can't know everyone's situation. Was the person on a budget, but then convinced their spouse to spend a bit more? Maybe they went and studied comps and realized they'd have to go higher. Maybe they are just being deceitful. Who knows.

[Snapolit1]

Def see some weirdness on eBay. I was selling some silver coins recently and some guy from Poland reached out to me and asked if I could buy him some chemical cleaner that he can’t get in Poland and would pay well for it. I don’t now if it was an honest question from a coin collector or whether the CIA would be at my door tomorrow kicking it down. Certainly weird. Sorry dude.

I agree with someone above that a lot of the stupidity is just inquiries. Can you shut auction down and sell to me. I can get out the money but not will take a few days to get the pay pal arranged. That kind of stuff. I also appreciate people lecturing me about what it’s worth when I can see EBay recent sales perfectly well.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I disagree but then I remembered that half of all people are of below average intelligence (think about it), so best not to assume average intelligence. Any listings i post now that show a number of cheap cards but are selling them singly says "1 card ONLY" in the title. That way even an idiot reading the title and not bothering with the description will see it plain as day.

Would you care to share an example of your listings like you're describing?

[GrewUpWithJunkWax]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Not gonna lie, I've always thought listings like this are at least a little deceptive. If your auction photo and title don't clearly convey exactly what is being sold - that, is you're requiring people to obtain necessary information from the description - you're asking for trouble. And, for a lot of sellers (not saying you), they're hoping to prey on people who don't read descriptions because they expect titles and photos to be complete.

I'll agree that some of those listings can be misleading. I've clicked on some only to read in the details that only 1 of the items in the picture is for sale.

I might also add that even saying "RP" could be misleading, primarily to someone newer to the hobby. I suppose it comes down to knowing your audience, but it's eBay and the general public.

Another annoyance is finding down at the bottom of the description that the seller found said item in an attic and it may or may not be real, giving false hope to someone.

[FrankWakefield]

Those of whom you complain about are mere Grasshoppers...

Chill, Master Net54'ers... were you not once a Grasshopper as they are now?

Patience, your reward will be in educating, guiding, and nurturing these students.




OK, if you didn't watch Kung Fu as a kid, maybe watch this, and then watch a few season 1 episodes...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J37QUZjOjF8

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

Those of whom you complain about are mere Grasshoppers...

Chill, Master Net54'ers... were you not once a Grasshopper as they are now?

Patience, your reward will be in educating, guiding, and nurturing these students.

You can't educate, guide and nurture stupid.

[whiteymet]

What gets me is when a seller lists his card for $7.95 with make an offer, thats worth maybe $3 but I need for a not very important variation and I offer $5 and the seller counters at $7.50.

Why even have make an offer if you are only going to discount it 45 cents?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by whiteymet

What gets me is when a seller lists his card for $7.95 with make an offer, thats worth maybe $3 but I need for a not very important variation and I offer $5 and the seller counters at $7.50.

Why even have make an offer if you are only going to discount it 45 cents?

I ran into this today. It was listed at $28.95 with best offer. Figured I would try an offer. I used all 5 you get and the last one was for $28.50 and it was auto rejected.

[pbspelly]

Personally I've told sellers that my offer is the best I can do, because sometimes I don't want them coming back with a counter. Either take the offer or say no. I don't feel like haggling. But then I don't make a subsequent offer like that guy did.

Did you respond to his first offer, though? I always find it kind of rude or annoying when I make an offer and the seller doesn't even respond to say thanks but no thanks. Sometimes I'll ask a question and the seller will respond to my question. Then I'll make an offer, and the same seller who a minute earlier responded to my question now acts as if I don't exist. And I'm not making insultingly low offers. My biggest complaint, though, is with sellers who list items for five, maybe ten times what they're worth, and just never sell. I've seen some items that I know have been listed on eBay for at least five years. Five years. And if you have the temerity to suggest to the seller that it's not going to sell at that price, they tell you that their price is fair. If it hasn't sold in five years, the price you're asking is too high. I wish eBay had a system like the old Filene's Basement, where if an item hadn't sold after a certain number of days, it automatically went down in price.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by pbspelly

...I wish eBay had a system like the old Filene's Basement, where if an item hadn't sold after a certain number of days, it automatically went down in price.

Utilizing that feature was an option for sellers last time I checked.

[ASF123]

As a buyer, I see so, so many cards with firm BIN prices or starting bids that are way above what it seems like anyone would even consider paying. Do a huge portion (majority?) of cards on eBay just not sell?

[ASF123]

eBay buyer etiquette question: I just received a card that was shipped in a soft sleeve, between two pieces of paper (not cardboard) in a plain envelope. It was not an expensive card (about $10) and the seller only charged $1 for shipping. But I would have expected at least some protection - a top loader, a padded envelope, or cardboard backing. Any one of the above.

The card arrived undamaged, fortunately, so all's well that ends well. The seller only has 18 feedback, all positive, so I don't want to drop a neutral on him as all the other elements of the deal were fine. But should I send him a private message, just as an "FYI" for what appears to be a new seller, or is that considered obnoxious?

[Tabe]

That's a new option on ebay - the $1 shipping in PWE. If you're expecting a padded envelope for $1, you're mistaken.

I believe they're supposed to use a toploader though.

[ASF123]

Originally Posted by Tabe

That's a new option on ebay - the $1 shipping in PWE. If you're expecting a padded envelope for $1, you're mistaken.

I believe they're supposed to use a toploader though.

No, I'm not expecting a padded envelope - that was just one option for some protection. A toploader or even putting it between a couple of pieces of something stiffer than cardstock would have been fine. I've had several cards shipped in the new envelope option and they've all had some sort of protection.

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by ASF123

eBay buyer etiquette question: I just received a card that was shipped in a soft sleeve, between two pieces of paper (not cardboard) in a plain envelope. It was not an expensive card (about $10) and the seller only charged $1 for shipping. But I would have expected at least some protection - a top loader, a padded envelope, or cardboard backing. Any one of the above.

The card arrived undamaged, fortunately, so all's well that ends well. The seller only has 18 feedback, all positive, so I don't want to drop a neutral on him as all the other elements of the deal were fine. But should I send him a private message, just as an "FYI" for what appears to be a new seller, or is that considered obnoxious?

Whenever I have those < $10 pwe orders with $1 or less shipping cost (that you accept will come by carrier pigeon), I've never had no protection like that (if no toploader, then there was the cardboard backing).

So while I've probably been pretty lucky about that, I'd still guess it's less likely to have your last pwe experience

[Gorditadogg]

USPS will only allow a PWE to be 1/4 inch thick. If you put a piece of cardboard in there you are going to exceed that and if so shipping will be charged as a package. I have had to pay postage due many times from a seller who tried to put cardboard in an envelope and mail it with just a stamp.

A PWE is principally used to mail letters, and they are sorted through mechanical feeders. USPS has a special 85 cent stamp you can use to have the PWE hand sorted. My local post office advised that you should also mark the envelope NON MACHINABLE in red on the left side.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[ALBB]

I think its been going on forever...negotiating / bargaining/ try to chew down a price/ whatever you want to call it....buts its not just ebay... it happens in a lot of places ...

.walk into a card show or a card shop to sell a card to a dealer, - what do you want for it ? whats the best you will let it go ?, what are you into the card for ?, I cant go a penny more ..Throw out a number...throw out a bigger number,

seems like nothing new to me