Dingers and Ks - The Irony of Nolan's 5714 Ks

[frankbmd]

Baseball has changed:
No more small ball
4 to 5 inning starters
Rapid relievers who are worn out after facing 3 batters
Batters cannot strike out too much if they have a good launch angle.
"You ain't got a thing, if you ain't got that ding(er)"
Give every team a free double in the 10th inning and beyond, because 8 to 9 cannons in the bull pen is not enough to go 12, 13 or 14 innings.
A long reliever is now a pitcher who faces batters in 2 consecutive innings. Wowser.
I can't wait until the ERA leader in a league is the only pitcher to complete 162 innings and when that happens you know that he will have had Tommy John surgery, a prerequisite for a career lasting more than 3 years.

Put all this together and what would you expect:
It might take a few years, but Aaron's HR record would fall.
All pitchers giving up more hits than their strikeout totals would be in the minors.
93% of all runs would be the direct result of a dinger.
Radio will once again become the predominant way to follow your team, instead of watching 30 strikeout victims walk back to the dugout in a four hour game.
More records will be added to the list of impossible to break.
Sam Crawford's 309 triples, etc

With the ascent of the strike out in the game, the record one might think would be most at jeopardy would be Nolan Ryan's career strikeout record. League SO/G over the last 100 years have steadily for the most part increased from 3 to 9. There are 154 pitchers, predominantly active pitchers, who have had a season with over 10 Ks per 9 innings. There are two active pitchers with career K totals at or near 3000, Verlander and Scherzer and they are 38 and 36 years of age. I don't see anyone approaching Nolan at 5714 strikeouts. Do you?

I find it ironic that in the age of the strike out and home run that Nolan's record may well be one of the most difficult to break.

[FourStrikes]

boom.

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Baseball has changed:
No more small ball
4 to 5 inning starters
Rapid relievers who are worn out after facing 3 batters
Batters cannot strike out too much if they have a good launch angle.
"You ain't got a thing, if you ain't get that ding(er)"
Give every team a free double in the 10th inning and beyond, because 8 to 9 cannons in the bull pen is not enough to go 12, 13 or 14 innings.
A long reliever is now a pitcher who faces batters in 2 consecutive innings. Wowser.
I can't wait until the ERA leader in a league is the only pitcher to complete 162 innings and when that happens you know that he will have had Tommy John surgery, a prerequisite for a career lasting more than 3 years.

Put all this together and what would you expect:
It might take a few years, but Aaron's HR record would fall.
All pitchers giving up more hits than their strikeout totals would be in the minors.
93% of all runs would be the direct result of a dinger.
Radio will once again become the predominant way to follow your team, instead of watching 30 strikeout victims walk back to the dugout in a four hour game.
More records will be added to the list of impossible to break.
Sam Crawford's 309 triples, etc

With the ascent of the strike out in the game, the record one might think would be most at jeopardy would be Nolan Ryan's career strikeout record. League SO/G over the last 100 years have steadily for the most part increased from 3 to 9. There are 154 pitchers, predominantly active pitchers, who have had a season with over 10 Ks per 9 innings. There are two active pitchers with career K totals at or near 3000, Verlander and Scherzer and they are 38 and 36 years of age. I don't see anyone approaching Nolan at 5714 strikeouts. Do you?

I find it ironic that in the age of the strike out and home run that Nolan's record may well be one of the most difficult to break.

[BearBailey]

The number of walks he gave up will be more difficult to break than the strike outs.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Nobody is likely to have Ryan's longevity, that plus pitchers now don't throw as many innings even if their per 9 is high.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by BearBailey

The number of walks he gave up will be more difficult to break than the strike outs.

Probably, but I did say one of the most difficult to break.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Nobody is likely to have Ryan's longevity, that plus pitchers now don't throw as many innings even if their per 9 is high.

Addressed longevity in my ERA comment regarding only one pitcher throwing 162 innings and the demise of the 7 to 9 inning starters. Also the age of Verlander and Scherzer.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Probably, but I did say one of the most difficult to break.



Addressed longevity in my ERA comment regarding only one pitcher throwing 162 innings and the demise of the 7 to 9 inning starters. Also the age of Verlander and Scherzer.

Maybe what you see as ironic I just see as a function of Ryan's extreme uniqueness in terms of longevity, plus the fact that the high K ratios are somewhat offset by less IP.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Nobody is likely to have Ryan's longevity, that plus pitchers now don't throw as many innings even if their per 9 is high.

+1 agreed

[Ricky]

In addition, check out how many guys are hitting .300 in each league..

[Mike D.]

I'd have loved to see what that Ryan kid could have done if he hadn't suffered that career ending arm injury in 1993. He may have had more in the tank.

Speaking of such things...home runs are all the vogue, but with Cabrera getting his 500th today, there could be quite a wait for another 500 HR hitter...never mind someone breaking the all time record.

Unless Nelson Cruz (Age 40, 443 HR) truly IS ageless, there next guy with a legit chance is likely Mike Trout, who has 310 career HR and just turned 30 earlier this month. Even he'd have to average nearly 32 HR per year for the next 6 years to get there (or play well into his late 30's at a lower rate).

[Peter_Spaeth]

Bryce Harper, 255 at age 28, is in the running.

[Tao_Moko]

Ryan was one of a kind. Very much a freak of nature and his record is safe in my lifetime for sure. The game will continue to evolve, but his career SO record, Pete's hit record and Henderson's SB are 3 I dont expect to see broken with any current players. Cal is 100% safe too. I can probably think of a half dozen more that you all already know. Thing is, new records will be made and two generations from now the same argument will be made.

I'm a fan of Trout, but my money is on sub 500 hr's and sub 300 career avg. Another 6 years won't be enough and most shocking will be if he plays more than that.

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Bryce Harper, 255 at age 28, is in the running.

Yes, he's another guy with a chance, for sure...not a great chance, but a chance. Of course, by definition of a club with 28 players in it (when there have been 20,000+ total major league players), everyone has not a great chance.

Safe to safe that that we're 5, 6, 7 years off from anyone having a chance, and anything further away than that is anyone's guess.

[frankbmd]

In the era of strike outs and dingers (HRs), this thread could just as easily been directed to the irony of Hank Aaron's 755 Home Run record, even though it wouldn't satisfy Peter's standards of ironicity.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

In the era of strike outs and dingers (HRs), this thread could just as easily been directed to the irony of Hank Aaron's 755 Home Run record, even though it wouldn't satisfy Peter's standards of ironicity.

Do they still make Iron City beer?

[frankbmd]

to your health. Cheers

[Nunzio11]

I'm currently reading Ty and the Babe by Tom Stanton and the following excerpt and quote by Ty Cobb jumped out at me and seems to be as relevant today as it was in 1924:

Cobb said to Grantland Rice while watching Ruth lift balls into the right field stands during batting practice. "Well the old game is gone. We have another game, a newer game now. In this game, power has replaced speed and skill. Baserunning is about dead. They've all just about quit stealing...Ruth has changed baseball. I guess more people would rather see Babe hit one over the fence than see me steal second. I feel bad about it because it isn't the game I like to see or play. The old game was one of skill - skill and speed and quick thinking. The game is all power...A lot of these kids, in place of learning the true science of hitting or base running, are trying to knock every pitch over the fence."