1st Color Caramel Set....E91-A....show us your cards ?

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Although the E91-A set is numbered after the E90-1, I strongly feel it preceded it by a year and was issued
in late 1907 or very early in 1908.
Upon researching the players depicted in the E91-A series, you will find players like Waddell listed with the
Philadelphia A's (traded to St Lo. Feb 1908) and Schreckengost (traded to Chi-AL in early 1908).

Whereas the 1st series of the E90-1 set (according to my research) was issued later in 1908.

This 1st series of 33 cards in the E91 set portrays 11 ballplayers each of the A's, Cubs, and Giants. Many
of the generically drawn pictures do not really resemble the players; but, the Plank is one that does.

Another one that somewhat resembles the player is that of a young looking Wagner (in the E91-C series).
Included in this last series is Walter Johnson....but, his depiction is that of a southpaw pitcher, who does
not really resemble him.

Show and tell us your E91 cards. I, for one, would appreciate seeing them; and, learning more about this set.







TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: Brett

The e91 Plank and Waddell actually look the real players. I'm sure theres more, but i'd have to look at the rest.

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Koteles

I love these cards......you hear that ya'll ?

Dont care whatchas say.....these are colorful.

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

You are right about Waddell. And, I think most of the other Phila. A's depicted in the 1st series (E91-A) are a good likeness.
Probably since the American Caramel Co. was based in Philadelphia.

TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: Rick McQuillan

I love the way that the same drawings were used for different players in each series.

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Posted By: Paul

The Evers is really Evers.

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Posted By: brian p

I wrote an article about the E91 sets and how they are inaccurately classified a generic set, especially series A and a good chunk of series B. I feel that the vast majority of the cards in series A, and some of the series B are decent likenesses of the player depicted, especially when compared to what you see in a lot of the strip issues. This was a few years back but have never sent it off. With a little bit of encouragement I just could send it to Old Cardboard. Any interest, Old Cardboard?

Brian

[Archive]

Posted By: anthony

although very colorful, was there a legitimate reason of why they looked so "feminine"?? blush, lipstick, some of the stances....??

i thought maybe some of the artist were the same that did the actor/actresses series of cards

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Lyman Hardeman is always looking for articles on vintage cards. I encourage you to contact Old Cardboard and tell your
story on this "neglected", but landmark set.

I agree with you that the portrayals in 1st series (A subset) are drawn to a close likeness of the players. But, by the 3rd
series Am. Caramel just used the same images from the earlier series to print most of the 3rd series' subjects.

Incidently, do you agree with my theory that the E91's preceded the E90-1,2,3....and, the other subsequent Caramel sets ?

TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

For unknown reasons, some cards are tougher than others to find in the E91 set. This card of Ralph Seybold
is one of the tougher ones from the 1st series. Perhaps, because his BB career ended in early 1908.





TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Very true.....by the time they printed the 3rd series (E91-C) cards they reached back to the 1st or 2nd series for images. Your examples....

1st series......2nd series......3rd series

Kling..................................Gibson

....................Murray...........Karger

Devlin.................................Lord



TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

I was hoping you would show us your E91 Walter Johnson.....do I recall right that you displayed one in a thread about a year ago ?

T-Rex TED

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

So far, DAN K and BRIAN P and I seem to be the only ones here who like these cards.

I don't believe this....there must be more collectors of E91's on this Forum ?

T-Rex TED

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

Here are my types....I like these little dudes but there are other sets I like more...Some of these cards do look like the players they are supposed to be...but alas, most don't...

[Archive]

Posted By: Todd Schultz

Frank Chance-courtesy of John Billingsley at the 2006 National, and before him Frank Nagy:


As was stated, many and maybe all of the e91-As are true depictions of their subjects--I believe Scott Forrest had photos from which a couple of the cards were taken, and some like the Plank and evers are obvious. Accordingly, I believe the A's and most of the Bs are undervalued. ted, I agree with you on the dating also.

[Archive]

Posted By: Frank Wakefield

I have a Reulbach, I'll dig him out and post him.

I just never was a big fan of the cards that had those non-specific depictions. These remind me of those Gold Coins cards of about 1890 or so...

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

I knew you would post your Johnson......THANKS.

The only portrayal of Johnson in any of the CARAMEL sets....and, they blew it, he's depicted as a SOUTHPAW ! !

Oh well, his card is in the 3rd series (E91-C)....and, most of the players in this series are repeat drawings from
the previous two series.

TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: Dave S

A great set..and affordable, too!!


Look at Hooper...and Leon's McGraw!!

[Archive]

Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Well I was mistaken... I thought I had a Reulbach. It is Al Bridwell, instead.



I'll have to rescan him, and rescan the Buchner N284 Gold Coin card.

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

GEE, I thought you had every Ed Reulbach card.....I'm starting to collect these E91's and if I come across Big Ed,
I'll save him for you.

TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Thank you, Ted.

I thought I had Reulbach. Maybe I bid on one and lost... I do have most of Ed's cards, and a signed 3x5. I lack a couple of his post cards. I have the Dietsche. And a T222. I still think he should be in the Hall.

That N284 Gold Coin card up there I think of as the 19th century version of those E91s... odd cards.

[Archive]

Posted By: Anthony

Like Todd, I picked up a couple of Nagy collection E91's from John B (incredibly nice guy) at the National last year. Got them home, really liked them a lot and called him the next week to get more. Alas, they were all gone, but since then I've managed to pick up about half of the A/B/C sets. In my limited experience E91B seems to be a bit tougher than the other two.

[Archive]

Posted By: Ken Wirt

So, maybe this is a good likeness of Homerun Baker? I really don't know what he looked like. I definitely have seen this image with other E91 players. Always figured it was generic.

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

It's been my impression that the Philadelphia A's players are drawn to have a close resemblance to their photos.
And, I attribute this to the fact that American Caramel was based in Philadelphia.

As for other team's players (Cubs, Giants, Boston, Pittsburg, and Washington) I cannot say. Except for Johnson,
who is not Johnson.

Another question arises....why did they limit the team representation to just these six ? And, of course the "B"
issue repeats the 3 teams in the "A" issue (although some of the players are not the same due to trades in 1908).

TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: Scott Mosley

Hi Ted,

Since you brought up E91-B, here they are for comparison...

[Archive]

Posted By: Matt

I also have the Baker form this series and IMHO it looks nothing like he did. The most obvious difference is the complexion - in photos he always has very dark toned skin, as opposed to the pasty white he appears here. That's aside from the facial features not being representative...

[DeafSports]

I decided to dig and to see if we all talked about E 91 set as Im starting to put E91 A set together because my favorite player, Luther Taylor's name is on the back of checklist. I have 5 cards out of 33 now.

For some reason I felt that the A set is harder to find than B and C.

Thoughts?

[brianp-beme]

Overall I would state the E91A is tougher to come by. Here is a link to an article about the E91 sets, and I have included scans of the E91A Taylor and from a couple different issues to highlight similiarities (scans are from cards on the web). Taylor falls in the category of unknown photo source, but decent facial likeness.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...hlight=generic

Brian

[Griffins]

After 11 years of pursuit I have found (contrary to my post above) that E91a is the toughest of the 3. I'm still looking for 6 to complete the set, if anyone has any available
It may actually be easier to complete this set in uncut form, given all the strips circulating.

[benge610]

I was reviewing this old thread in my "E91" folder; ran across this.
Home Run Baker of the 'B' set is the image of Jimmy Collins of the 'A' set. I enjoy tracking these things down.

[benge610]

Originally Posted by Archive

Posted By: Ken Wirt

So, maybe this is a good likeness of Homerun Baker? I really don't know what he looked like. I definitely have seen this image with other E91 players. Always figured it was generic.

I was reviewing this old thread in my "E91" folder; ran across this.
Home Run Baker of the 'B' set is the image of Jimmy Collins of the 'A' set. I enjoy tracking these things down.

[brianp-beme]

Here is the T204 comparison card with a photo of Jimmy Collins that, although not the one utilized to portray his face on the E91A card, in my opinion definitely shares enough similarities to Jimmy Collins to classify as a decent match. In E91B they utilized this same artwork and identified the player as Frank Baker.

I also added a photo of Jimmy Collins I found on the internet that seems to be a pretty good match, and possibly could have been the one used by the E91 artists.

Brian

[benge610]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Here is the T204 comparison card with a photo of Jimmy Collins that, although not the one utilized to portray his face on the E91A card, in my opinion definitely shares enough similarities to Jimmy Collins to classify as a decent match. In E91B they utilized this same artwork and identified the player as Frank Baker.

I also added a photo of Jimmy Collins I found on the internet that seems to be a pretty good match, and possibly could have been the one used by the E91 artists.

Brian

Thank you Brian.

[molenick]

Here is my only one. Brian has a great thread that I can't find now with a lot of photo matches (I will post a link if I can find it). I believe there was no photo match for McGraw but that this might still actually be him.

[molenick]

Here is the link I was looking for:

https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...hlight=generic

[benge610]

Originally Posted by molenick

Here is the link I was looking for:

https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...hlight=generic

Thank you Michael for highlighting Brian's excellent work on this thread as well. All of this wealth of knowledge is in my printed, "E91" folder which I will eventually turn over to my oldest son; the heir apparent to all of his ol' man's "knowledge", lol.
Ben.

[benge610]

Originally Posted by molenick

Here is my only one. Brian has a great thread that I can't find now with a lot of photo matches (I will post a link if I can find it). I believe there was no photo match for McGraw but that this might still actually be him.

Beautiful McGraw, Michael. I believe that Brian has concretely established; the artists' work for the E91A was original for each subject. What I find even more tantalizing, with your piece; as with Waddell and McGinnity; E107 would be considered the true "rookie" card; supplement, cabinet, post card aside, for a moment. McGraw had a "1894 Alpha Photo-Engraving, Baltimore Orioles" card, but geez; I still think that the E91A of McGraw can be seen as his "Rookie Card" for the rest of us.
Just my two cents.
Ben