This can't be real? Can it?

[Seven]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1928-Goudey...EAAOSwWBJfq4HH

I'm so confused by this guys listings. Is this a classic case of fake card listed with a bunch of real ones? The red flags seem to be going up.

[oldeboo]

Crummy fake. That guy is selling some really bad fakes along with some cards that look good. Here is a sampling of his fantasy/art cards.

[oldeboo]

Here is one of his cards that should sell for six figures.

[jayshum]

I haven't collected 1933 Goudeys or any of the Tobacco card sets shown so far in this thread. I am curious how you can determine that the cards shown are not real. Can someone please provide information about what to look for in cards like these to tell that they are not original?

[oldeboo]

Originally Posted by jayshum

I haven't collected 1933 Goudeys or any of the Tobacco card sets shown so far in this thread. I am curious how you can determine that the cards shown are not real. Can someone please provide information about what to look for in cards like these to tell that they are not original?

No problem, hope this helps.

There are generally 3 main types of fakes in my mind. First, you have mass produced hobby reprints that have had the word "reprint" removed, then the card is stained and aged to look real. Next, you have modern day forgeries coming out of China that are using a horrible looking aged print or paper, and are REALLY bad, as seen on the Colgan's below. Finally, you have a slightly more believable fake like the Ruth.

You want to look for reprints that have "reprint" on the card and see if that area has been messed with. Beyond that, you get into the forgeries. When trying to detect through images online the main signs that are easy to see are low image quality, odd paper coloring, and unrealistic wear among others. A sign that you have a legit 1933 Goudey is that you will see some of the front image on the back, that's not 100% the case, but a good sign if you see it.

Also, it might not be a fair assessment, but you need to assume every raw 1933 Goudey Ruth on Ebay is fake because 99% are. Same can be said for any high dollar raw card, you need to assume it's fake until facts prove otherwise.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by oldeboo

Here is one of his cards that should sell for six figures.

I didn't even notice that listing for the Ty Cobb back

My ability to detect fakes on Goudey's isn't the best, so I figured I post here. I believe he's offering returns though, which is unusual considering most scammers don't offer returns.

[oldeboo]

Originally Posted by Seven

I didn't even notice that listing for the Ty Cobb back

My ability to detect fakes on Goudey's isn't the best, so I figured I post here. I believe he's offering returns though, which is unusual considering most scammers don't offer returns.

Most of the scammers running this scam don't post high resolution images to analyze either. I wouldn't doubt that, in this case, the seller was a victim at some point in the past. Whether they figured that out or not, who knows.

[steve B]

On the fake ruth, the big tip off is how any dark ink has a bit of spread into the lighter colors next to it.

The halo of blue around his head, the graininess of the roof at the right.

All stuff you see on things printed on a cheap computer printer.

[Yoda]

My God, this scammer couldn't get the correct year of issuance for the fake Ruth in his description He must be really stupid as well as a grifter.

[jayshum]

Thanks for the information about what to look for to determine if cards from these sets are originals or fakes. Unfortunately, since many online listings don't have high quality pictures posted, it can be hard to tell if the images are worse than they should be because the card is a fake or just a bad image of a real card. All of this does make me nervous about possibly starting to collect some of these older sets. I have not collected T206s so I still can't readily say why the Cobb shown in this thread would be a fake. I am not a big fan of graded cards and clearly the grading companies don't always do a great job of identifying fakes, but that may be what I will need to rely on more going forward, at least for buying cards online.

I have been thinking of starting to collect the T205 set. Is that a set that has significant issues with fakes being sold? If so, is there a good way to tell specifically for that set, or do the same suggestions listed for other sets apply to T205s as well?

[charlietheexterminator]

It’s the new move of late. They sell the $100 or $200 graded cards, mixed in with just the right amount of (RAW) high dollar fake stuff, the newer guys to the hobby always fall for it.
This seller has an SGC graded card that I don’t trust. It’s the W515-2 Cobb. I don’t like the freshly sanded down corners, nor the super clean milky back and frame. It just doesn’t look right.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by charlietheexterminator

It’s the new move of late. They sell the $100 or $200 graded cards, mixed in with just the right amount of (RAW) high dollar fake stuff, the newer guys to the hobby always fall for it.
This seller has an SGC graded card that I don’t trust. It’s the W515-2 Cobb. I don’t like the freshly sanded down corners, nor the super clean milky back and frame. It just doesn’t look right.

It's ridiculous and sad that this is becoming the new norm. And on top of some of the listings being of fake cards, some of them aren't even labeled properly. His Cobb listing with the Ty Cobb back, is listed as being from 1923!

I trust your opinion on the slabbed Cobb, Chuck. Always interesting to hear what the more experienced collectors know about these sorts of things.

[oldeboo]

Originally Posted by jayshum

I have been thinking of starting to collect the T205 set. Is that a set that has significant issues with fakes being sold? If so, is there a good way to tell specifically for that set, or do the same suggestions listed for other sets apply to T205s as well?

Absolutely nothing wrong with staying away from graded cards. I'd recommend buying a few things here and there on the net54 B/S/T and that will develop your confidence in looking at the cards. Buy a few relatively low cost cards of common players to look at the characteristics of the set. I think that goes a long way. Unfortunately, it's kind of the nature of the hobby that cards like a T205 Cobb end up getting graded at some point. It's one reason why you see such high numbers on many of the better cards in population reports. Once you get into the top handful of cards in a set you can always buy graded and crack the cards out as many prefer. Because of the issues with graded fake cards, it's good to look at several for comparisons sake as well.

When it comes to Ebay, you'll start to recognize the people that are running scams even while having 100% feedback. It's good to look at all of their listings and that will tell a story. If someone lists 100 raw T205 cards saying that it's a partial set break, I'd tend to believe them. If someone has just one raw T205 Cobb and a bunch of hammers and screwdrivers, my radar would go off. If someone says no returns, that's a red flag. If someone says read description, that's a red flag. If someone says in the listing that the card is 100% original five times, that's a red flag. You get the drift. One good thing is you have buyer's protection there, so you can always verify regrettable purchases here.

For a set like T205 there aren't a ton of fakes I'd say, but they are out there for the better names especially. Once you get a feel for T205s you'll realize that the gold borders are very hard to replicate on a modern printer. A real one will look very metallic, while a fake will be very flat looking. Again, you'll run into the fuzzy images and sometimes that fake crackled look along with doctored reprints. There are nuances to sets you'll recognize as well the more you see them. A good example for the T205 set is the Polar Bear backed cards. Go look at a bunch of Polar Bear cards and nearly all of them will have brown stains visible on them, especially on the back. You'll even see actual specks of tobacco frequently. This is due to how the Polar Bear cards were distributed with scrap tobacco as opposed to cigarettes.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by Seven

I believe he's offering returns though, which is unusual considering most scammers don't offer returns.

They have to provide returns even if they say they won't. Ebay policy. So why not just say returns allowed within 30 days? It makes the buyer feel more relaxed.

I bought two fake Speaker strip cards 2-3 years ago. One arrived and I knew it was a fake immediately. Paper wasn't right holding it in my fingers. Asked for a refund and I got it within hours.

The other fake was really well done. I posted it on Net54, and a member said the going opinion on the board was that the name in blue ink was a fake. That was the only detail that they debated. It's so well done that I kept it.

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[Browns1981]

I just won't even consider raw vintage cards on ebay. I'll only look for graded. It's sad.

[jchcollins]

The pixelation and the perfectly rounded corners with zero uneven wear are a dead giveaway. I don't know why anyone would buy a card that should cost several grand like that raw this day in age anyway.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by jayshum

I have been thinking of starting to collect the T205 set. Is that a set that has significant issues with fakes being sold? If so, is there a good way to tell specifically for that set, or do the same suggestions listed for other sets apply to T205s as well?

The gold flake borders on T205s make it very difficult to create a counterfeit that would fool people. If the gold border is printed on, it's counterfeit.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Browns1981

I just won't even consider raw vintage cards on ebay. I'll only look for graded. It's sad.

I'll consider raw vintage cards on ebay. Buy them all the time. But generally ones that cost less than $50. Buying a Goudey Ruth raw online is ill-advised, to put it mildly.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Browns1981

I just won't even consider raw vintage cards on ebay. I'll only look for graded. It's sad.

I buy raw cards on ebay frequently. Sometimes y'a have to return one, here or there, for being a reprint. But all in all it's not too difficult once you know what to look for.

(*and to the subject, mixing good cards with bad ones has been around as long as ebay has, at least)

I got this raw one a few days ago..

[Django7975]

I bought this raw on eBay. Turned out swell


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[LACardsGuy]

there is a big difference between returns and not as described insurances from Ebay. as a seller, you might not want to take returns because there are people who buy cards, get out the magnifying glass, and decide they don't want to pay as much as they did. a seller does not have to accept that return request, unless the buyer says it isn't as described (and then seller has no choice).

Originally Posted by todeen

They have to provide returns even if they say they won't. Ebay policy. So why not just say returns allowed within 30 days? It makes the buyer feel more relaxed.