Jeter - minus 1? WTF??

[pclpads]

First, I'm neither a Jeter fan, nor a Yankees fan, so, no sour grapes or an axe to grind here. But, how could a supposed, informed baseball writer / voter deny Jeter a unanimous selection to the HOF? I fully realize there is one in every crowd, but this is inexcusable. This BBWAA HOF voting member should be stripped / barred from any future HOF balloting participation. Quite possibly it's the same moron who did this to Griffey, denying him unanimous election. That said, congrats to Mr. Jeter for an exemplary career and honor.

[drcy]

Jeter is clearly overrated, people thinking he deserved a higher HOF percentage than Ruth, Mays et al.

[Jim65]

I just don't understand why getting 99.7% is considered an insult or an injustice. Jeter got the highest percentage of any Shortstop in history. Thats not good enough?

[swarmee]

They probably didn't get a gift basket when they left his apartment, or didn't like the way he followed tradition and gutted the Marlins.

[Jcfowler6]

It’s over 75%. Does it really matter after that?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[trambo]

I read somewhere when Griffey wasn’t unanimous that there is one voter who will not vote for a player in their first year of eligibility regardless. If memory serves, this voter agreed to do so at the request of former voters who had done the same. I think it stems from a voter over Ruth not being unanimous.

Not sure if any of the above is true but I definitely remember reading something like that.

[GeoPoto]

I think everybody thought that went away when Rivera got 100%. But it is his (or her) vote and they don't have to explain it. Maybe he didn't want to "waste" it on a foregone conclusion, since everybody had decided Jeter couldn't miss before the vote. There are arguably 10 other deserving candidates on the ballot. Maybe tragedy intervened. We do have human voters.

[packs]

I think the conversation should start with WHY JETER? Mariano Rivera was maybe the greatest inning per inning pitcher of all time. There has never been another one like him and there probably won't be again. Jeter is a HOF player but he's not more than that. I don't think he was ever really considered the best shortstop in baseball at any one point in his career. Knowing that, how can there be so much support for 100% induction?

[Snapolit1]

Typical Yankee fan response:

I'm outraged that Jeter didn't get 100% of the votes.

Who is Larry Walker?

-----------------------

From 538.com:

Still, in some ways, Jeter would have been a curious choice to become the Hall of Fame’s first unanimous position player. He never won an MVP award, though he had eight top-10 finishes. He never led the league in batting, on-base percentage, slugging or WAR in any of his 20 seasons. He was named AL Player of the Month only once (August 1998). He ranks 88th all-time in WAR.

Jeter’s game also had a glaring weakness: He had a suspect glove. His five Gold Gloves were likely based more on reputation than skill, according to metrics that have long regarded Jeter as a poor defender. Jeter has the worst Defensive Runs Saved total (-152) since the stat was first recorded in 2003. The stat measures a defender’s ability to convert batted balls to outs relative to his positional peers. Had he played in today’s game, Jeter might very well have been moved off of shortstop. Yet Jeter played all 23,225 2/3 of his career innings in the field at one of the game’s most demanding defensive positions.

[Bpm0014]

Jeter is clearly overrated, people thinking he deserved a higher HOF percentage than Ruth, Mays et al.

Spot on

[maddux31]

I always hoped that Greg Maddux would get the first unanimous call to the hall, then a voter with asinine reasoning stepped in.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...l-of-fame-vote

[maniac_73]

This whole unanimous thing has become nuts. Like others have said if Ruth and Aaron weren't unanimous, why would Jeter be? HOF caliber player but if he played his career in Atlanta unanimous wouldn't even be in the convo.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by maddux31

I always hoped that Greg Maddux would get the first unanimous call to the hall, then a voter with asinine reasoning stepped in.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...l-of-fame-vote

Jeter not getting 100% of the vote is silly. Just like many many before him should have got 100%.

[Orioles1954]

Who cares? He's in. Bitching for the sake of bitching.

[nsaddict]

Jimmie Foxx 79% in his 7th year of being eligible!

Jeter overrated for sure!

[tschock]

People, y'all are confusing individual voting with aggregates. The way it should work is, as a voter, I should vote if I feel he should be in the HOF. Yes or No. I should not vote based on what other people are voting or how Jeter compares to others already in (or not in).

However it has become a popularity vote contest, and not a HOF worthy consideration. A place where I, as a voter, can make a 'statement'.

If it truly was an HOF worthy consideration, then I can't see how Jeter wouldn't get 100% of the votes. If someone who voted can make their case as to why Jeter shouldn't be in, and not as it relates to other votes or other HOFers, then I can listen to that. If it's based on how others would vote, or if Jeter is more/less worthy than (insert name here), well, that's just pure and simple horseshit.

Signed,
Yankee hater and Jeter admirer

[perezfan]

Jeter received a higher percentage of HOF votes than any other position player in the history of baseball (Mariano was a Pitcher).

More than Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio, Mantle, Berra, etc. And that's only the Yankees. When you throw in names like Aaron, Mays, Musial, Wagner, Cobb, Foxx, Williams, Bench and Griffey then you can get a pretty good feeling for how overrated he was/is.

Great shortstop, but not the caliber of any of those players mentioned above. Yet he got more HOF votes than any of them... and Yankee Fans bitch about it. Even Jeter himself is focusing on the positive. This is a non-issue, and should not even be a debate.

[Butch7999]

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=250735

[doug.goodman]

Ok, I admit it, I didn't vote for Jeter.

I'm still butt hurt about the flip...

[brian1961]

Originally Posted by pclpads

First, I'm neither a Jeter fan, nor a Yankees fan, so, no sour grapes or an axe to grind here. But, how could a supposed, informed baseball writer / voter deny Jeter a unanimous selection to the HOF? I fully realize there is one in every crowd, but this is inexcusable. This BBWAA HOF voting member should be stripped / barred from any future HOF balloting participation.

Look Dave, the highly informed BBWAA did NOT even vote Yankee great Joe DiMaggio into the hall on his first year of eligibility, 1953. It wasn't even close, bro; Joe finished a distant 8th in the 1953 balloting. Moreover, he wasn't elected in his second year of eligibility, either. Finally, in the third year, he was enshrined. So much for instant gratification!

In case you were wondering, the waiting period before a retired player was eligible was different in those years.

--- Brian Powell

[BeanTown]

Whoever didn't vote him in is just a hater. What justification does the one writer have for not allowing? I would love to see the other players this writer has voted for and then we compare the stats! Jim Grey comes to mind as I can't stand that guy.

[Tripredacus]

Maybe he voted for Shawn Jeter by accident.

[mq711]

Originally Posted by swarmee

They probably didn't get a gift basket when they left his apartment, or didn't like the way he followed tradition and gutted the Marlins.

Didn’t consider the Marlins angle but should have lost more than one vote for screwing the South Florida fans.

[pclpads]

To quote Rodney Dangerfield: "Tough crowd, tough crowd." Geez, some of these replies make me feel like I stepped in a fresh, steaming pile of dog shit. Wow!

[thetruthisoutthere]

I don't understand the controversy about this; there isn't any.

Derek would have reacted with the same elegance whether it was 100% or 75%.

He was humbled to get voted in.

Overrated? No!!!

How many so-called stars where never able to handle the spotlight called New York.

Whatever anyone's opinion is, he is in the HOF; he possesses five WS rings (and earned them); he played the equivalent of one season in the playoffs and WS; his career average is .310; his Post-Season average is .308; 3,465 hits, etc.

And he handled the media like no one else could have.

Yeah, he's overrated.

Please.....

[BeanTown]

I think what Im torqued about is I look at his accomplishments and put him in the highest class of the Hall. Rings, stats, played for 1 team, how he played the game, and how he conducted himself off the field. I know it was one lone wolf who was either political or had some hidden vandetta against him. That writer is wrong and doesnt deserve to have a voice in the balloting. Yes, Im glad he is in the Hall on first ballot. But, just is sad that the clear and obvious choice wasnt reconognized by 100 percent.

I would make same arguments for a couple other players to. But, Im done venting now.

[Snapolit1]

Some stars haven't handled NY and countless thousands of guys have done just fine there, or thrived. Silly point. Lenny Dykstra thrived in NY. And the NY media loved him. Ditto Mark Bavero and Wayne Cherbet. Nuff said.

Yes, there is no way anyone with a right mind should look at that ballot and not vote for Jeter.

Yes, he is overrated. By a lot. Particularly in my home town, where I've almost had to fight Yankee fans who think Paul O'Neil was a hall of famer too because they watched him when there were 15 years old and wanted to be him because he contributed to good teams. Everything Bomber related is distorted. Yes, I'm aware last century they won a boatload of WS.

And, yes, I'm sure Jeter doesn't give a flying f*ck about any of this, despite the fact that Yankee fans are falling over in the street of Manhatan and The Bronx, clutching their pearls.

He was no Lou Gehrig.

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

I don't understand the controversy about this; there isn't any.

Derek would have reacted the same whether it was 100% of 75%.

He was humbled to get voted in.

Overrated? No!!!

How many so-called stars where never able to handle the spotlight called New York.

Whatever anyone's opinion is, he is in the HOF; he possesses five WS rings (and earned them); he played the equivalent of one season in the playoffs and WS; his career average is .310; his Post-Season average is .308; 3,465 hits, etc.

And he handled the media like no one else could have.

Yeah, he's overrated.

Please.....

[wdwfan]

So why does it matter if he didn't get one more vote? He's in the HOF and had a very HOF worthy career. Very classy guy. In 10-15 years, nobody's going to remember he didn't get 100% (without doing research). People will also remember his playing career and probably his induction into Cooperstown. Who cares if it wasn't 100%?

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Some stars haven't handled NY and countless thousands of guys have done just fine there, or thrived. Silly point. Lenny Dykstra thrived in NY. And the NY media loved him. Ditto Mark Bavero and Wayne Cherbet. Nuff said.

Yes, there is no way anyone with a right mind should look at that ballot and not vote for Jeter.

Yes, he is overrated. By a lot. Particularly in my home town, where I've almost had to fight Yankee fans who think Paul O'Neil was a hall of famer too because they watched him when there were 15 years old and wanted to be him because he contributed to good teams. Everything Bomber related is distorted. Yes, I'm aware last century they won a boatload of WS.

And, yes, I'm sure Jeter doesn't give a flying f*ck about any of this, despite the fact that Yankee fans are falling over in the street of Manhatan and The Bronx, clutching their pearls.

He was no Lou Gehrig.

Uh-huh.

[pgconboy]

Jeter is lucky to have received as many votes as he did.

All advanced statistics suggest he was a defensive liability.

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by pgconboy

Jeter is lucky to have received as many votes as he did.

All advanced statistics suggest he was a defensive liability.

Do advanced statistics take into account 'The Flip' or the fact that he dove into the stands without regard for his health, to catch a foul pop against the Sox? He was the anchor of a 5 time WS winning infield for 20 years, at arguably the toughest position in baseball.

I don't think anyone is arguing that Jeter should have gotten a higher % of votes than Ruth or Cobb or Mays or.....they should have been 100% also. But the argument is that no knowledgeable baseball writer today should not consider Jeter a HOFer.

And don't forget that Jeter stayed clear of all the steroid controversy while many of those around him were either proven or accused of using. Including his biggest rivalry at SS in the AL - ARod and some of his teammates - Giambi.

The man is 6th all time in hits and 1st on the Yankees list of games, at-bats, hits and doubles and 2nd in runs and stolen bases.

And in case you are wondering, I'm a Reds fan and I don't think Jeter is the best SS to ever play. For my money, I'd take Cal (of players I've seen) and probably Honus all-time.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by GeoPoto

I think everybody thought that went away when Rivera got 100%. But it is his (or her) vote and they don't have to explain it. Maybe he didn't want to "waste" it on a foregone conclusion, since everybody had decided Jeter couldn't miss before the vote. There are arguably 10 other deserving candidates on the ballot. Maybe tragedy intervened. We do have human voters.

This is the one argument against voting for an obvious choice that should have been unanimous I have heard over the years that makes sense to me.

The guys who just don't think anyone deserves 100% of the vote should not be allowed to vote at all. It was just as ridiculous when Babe Ruth was left off some ballots as it has been with most other first ballot HOFers.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

This is the one argument against voting for an obvious choice that should have been unanimous I have heard over the years that makes sense to me.

The guys who just don't think anyone deserves 100% of the vote should not be allowed to vote at all. It was just as ridiculous when Babe Ruth was left off some ballots as it has been with most other first ballot HOFers.

If votes are supposed to be preordained and people will be booted off and pitchforks taken up because they vote differently on issues, there shouldn't be votes. Apparently, some people think voting means you get to choose between Yes and Yes.

I am in general suspicious of unanimous votes, because it often indicates groupthink and a lot of yes men.

Besides, as far as HOF enshrinement goes, the induction percentage is just trivial trivia. As DiMaggio and Jimmy Foxx demonstrate, it's not an indication of anything significant. No one, including here, looks at induction percentages when ranking Pre-War players. No one anywhere says Robin Yount is better than Joe DiMaggio (And I say that as a Robin Yount fan).

[pgconboy]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

Do advanced statistics take into account 'The Flip' or the fact that he dove into the stands without regard for his health, to catch a foul pop against the Sox? He was the anchor of a 5 time WS winning infield for 20 years, at arguably the toughest position in baseball.

You earnestly believe that advanced stats don't pit shorts stops against other short stops or that Jeter had a 'flip' that transcends the ability to be captured with numbers?

Jeter had a negative defensive war. Other metrics caught on to this as well:

"Since defensive runs saved (DRS) — indicates how many runs a player saved or hurt his team in the field compared to the average player at his position — became a statistic in 2003 until his retirement in 2014, Derek Jeter posted the worst rating among qualified shortstops with a staggering -152 DRS"

[packs]

dWAR is a useless stat. It gives Mattingly a negative breakdown even though he is more or less universally regarded as an all world first baseman.

How do I know Jeter was a terrible shortstop? I saw him play everyday.

And whoever is trying to knock Paul O'Neill down a peg, shame on you!

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by pclpads

First, I'm neither a Jeter fan, nor a Yankees fan, so, no sour grapes or an axe to grind here. But, how could a supposed, informed baseball writer / voter deny Jeter a unanimous selection to the HOF? I fully realize there is one in every crowd, but this is inexcusable. This BBWAA HOF voting member should be stripped / barred from any future HOF balloting participation. Quite possibly it's the same moron who did this to Griffey, denying him unanimous election. That said, congrats to Mr. Jeter for an exemplary career and honor.

I’ll make this very simple....enough already with Jeter not getting 100% of the vote. Ruth, Cobb, Mathewson, Johnson, Wagner, Mays, Musial, Young, Williams, Aaron, etc., etc., etc., ALL weren’t unanimous, and that is a much greater tragedy than Jeter falling short. Bottom line is ALL of our National Pastime’s immortals merit the 100% honor so why is everyone making such a big deal about Jeter falling one vote short.....get over it.

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by Vintageclout

I’ll make this very simple....enough already with Jeter not getting 100% of the vote. Ruth, Cobb, Mathewson, Johnson, Wagner, Mays, Musial, Young, Williams, Aaron, etc., etc., etc., ALL weren’t unanimous, and that is a much greater tragedy than Jeter falling short. Bottom line is ALL of our National Pastime’s immortals merit the 100% honor so why is everyone making such a big deal about Jeter falling one vote short.....get over it.

Agree. My beef is with the names you mentioned above as well as, if not more, than Jeter.

But at the end of the day, the definition of a HOFer is whether you are in or not. Doesn't matter if a player was elected after he died or many years after his career or unanimously in his first year of eligibility. Everyone gets a plaque on the inside of the building and the right to say that they were/are a HOFer.

[ullmandds]

I'm not sure why it's such a tragedy the inaugural class was not inducted unanimously?

The HOF was brand new!

Presumably most...if not all people voting at that time knew most if not all of the players that were ultimately inducted...and at that time there was nothing to base their votes on what makes one "worthy" of the HOF.

Certainly some voters had opinions...based on 1st hand experience with these players that affected their votes?

Some of these players had questionable moral character...maybe cheated in some ways.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by drcy

If votes are supposed to be preordained and people will be booted off and pitchforks taken up because they vote differently on issues, there shouldn't be votes. Apparently, some people think voting means you get to choose between Yes and Yes.

I am in general suspicious of unanimous votes, because it often indicates groupthink and a lot of yes men.

Besides, as far as HOF enshrinement goes, the induction percentage is just trivial trivia. As DiMaggio and Jimmy Foxx demonstrate, it's not an indication of anything significant. No one, including here, looks at induction percentages when ranking Pre-War players. No one anywhere says Robin Yount is better than Joe DiMaggio (And I say that as a Robin Yount fan).

Great post right there....

Again... Jeter got the highest-ever percentage of votes for any position player in the history of baseball.

So in the immortal words of Chrissie Hynde…. Stop Your Sobbing!

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Great post right there....

Again... Jeter got the highest-ever percentage of votes for any position player in the history of baseball.

So in the immortal words of Chrissie Hynde…. Stop Your Sobbing!

I agree Mark, David's post was the most salient thus far.
And to touch on your thoughts, ONLY in this modern society do you find people actually getting what they want, and STILL whining and complaining!
... it's pathetic really.

So no need for any Holy Commotions or to add any Middle of the Road comments. Maybe if these Bad Boys get Spanked for whining about a single Precious vote, or they were put Back on the Chain Gang, they would change their tune. Buck up naysayers, you still have Brass in Pocket.
Goodbye

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Jim65

I just don't understand why getting 99.7% is considered an insult or an injustice. Jeter got the highest percentage of any Shortstop in history. Thats not good enough?

Jeter is probably number 2 in terms of vote percentage for HOF enshrinement. He only missed by 1 to be unanimous.

I'm not sure if it's an injustice or insult, but it does show that there are voters that may not care for a player. I mean really - Babe Ruth not unanimous?

There are several players that should have been unanimous picks. The fact that it took Mariano to be the first was surprising. Not saying he didn't deserve to be unanimous.

Some writers just have their heads up their ass.

[BeanTown]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

maybe cheated in some ways.

So, would you consider Ruth as a cheater if he drank during prohibition? Using a banned substance good or bad for you is irrelevant.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Great post right there....

Again... Jeter got the highest-ever percentage of votes for any position player in the history of baseball.

So in the immortal words of Chrissie Hynde…. Stop Your Sobbing!

Ray Davies not Chrissie Hynde.

[timzcardz]

First, Jeter is 100% a Hall of Famer. Pretty sure that there are no partials.




Now, has anyone here never made a mistake on a form by not checking off the correct box, or forgetting to check one off?

Could it be a case of simple human error?

There is always the possibility that the voter intended to vote for Jeter and screwed up.

[HRBAKER]

I'm still too distraught over Harry and Meghan to worry about this.

[drcy]

When my dad was a professor, a student came into his office worried she was going to get a B, because she was a 4.0 student who had never gotten anything below an A.

He said "Getting a B is good for you. Getting all A's is not good for a student."

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by drcy

When my dad was a professor, a student came into his office worried she was going to get a B, because she was a 4.0 student who had never gotten anything below an A.

He said "Getting a B is good for you. Getting all A's is not good for a student."

Your dad was wrong. I was a much better student when I was motivated to keep straight As. When there were plenty of Bs mixed in too, you just shrug and accept a little more mediocrity and are content with a slightly lower GPA

[cardsagain74]

And I'm surprised that guy from the other recent HOF thread isn't here writing smug diatribes about how overrated Jeter was.

Not that I don't agree with the sentiment.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by cardsagain74

And I'm surprised that guy from the other recent HOF thread isn't here writing smug diatribes about how overrated Jeter was.

Not that I don't agree with the sentiment.

I also noticed his absence in this thread. Walker is one of the best ever and Jeter is a no hit, no power, no glove overrated scrub.

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I also noticed his absence in this thread. Walker is one of the best ever and Jeter is a no hit, no power, no glove overrated scrub.

And here is a 123403 page breakdown of both guys' breakfast meals, internet browser histories, and subconscious thoughts during their playing days