Players whose cards should be a bigger deal than they seem to be

[Snapolit1]

Always are former players who leap out to me as total iconic players whose cards should be a bigger deal than they seem to be. See it in all sports. For some reason they were amazing players and cultural forces and extremely well liked but you don't see their cards rising to the forefront of anything.

Who comes to mind?

I thought of this just seeing a few minutes ago someone posted a scan of a Julius Erving card. Dr. J. was the be all and end all in his era. Style points off the charts and to me at least seemed like one of the guys who ushered in a new style of basketball. I ever met him a few times as a kid when he was on the Nets. Do his cards have a huge market? Maybe I don't follow basketball cards closely enough and I'm totally off base, but I've never seen a ton of interest in him from collectors. Maybe someone will tell me I am dead wrong. I'd think he would almost be on par with a Michael Jordan.

[Smanzari]

I know his stuff is already relatively expensive, but I think Willie Mays (specifically his 1951 Bowman) should sell for much more

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Always are former players who leap out to me as total iconic players whose cards should be a bigger deal than they seem to be. See it in all sports. For some reason they were amazing players and cultural forces and extremely well liked but you don't see their cards rising to the forefront of anything.

Who comes to mind?

I thought of this just seeing a few minutes ago someone posted a scan of a Julius Erving card. Dr. J. was the be all and end all in his era. Style points off the charts and to me at least seemed like one of the guys who ushered in a new style of basketball. I ever met him a few times as a kid when he was on the Nets. Do his cards have a huge market? Maybe I don't follow basketball cards closely enough and I'm totally off base, but I've never seen a ton of interest in him from collectors. Maybe someone will tell me I am dead wrong. I'd think he would almost be on par with a Michael Jordan.

Jordan is the consensus best player of all time still. Erving, probably somewhere between 15 and 20. Not even close IMO.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Jordan is the consensus best player of all time still. Erving, probably somewhere between 15 and 20. Not even close IMO.

I totally take your word for it as far as talent. But culturally Dr. J was huge. Cover of national news magazines and the like. Just surprised he doesn't get more love generally.

[Jason19th]

Larry Doby and Monte Irvin were truly great players who seem to get less attentionbecause they were able to play a portion of their Careers in the majors. Both were the equals of players like Cool Papa Bell and Buck Lenard for their Negro League time and both actually had short but dramatic major league time. I think in some ways the major league time makes them lose some of the mythology that surrounds the players who never got a chance. People saw them, but only for the late prime and decline phases of their careers

Both in the Hall but you can get there early cards for almost nothing. Just picked up lower grade 1952 topps of them for about 15 dollars each

[drcy]

I'd agree that Mays cards are underrated price-wise. Though prices reflect less than "objective" things such as team.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I totally take your word for it as far as talent. But culturally Dr. J was huge. Cover of national news magazines and the like. Just surprised he doesn't get more love generally.

Not that huge, I don't think. The NBA wasn't that popular in the 70s when the Doctor was operating at top form. Jordan, in part due to the Nike Air Jordan campaign, in part due to the revival of the NBA starting with Bird and Magic, and in part due to his own personality, will, and incomparable talent, became a world-recognized figure.

[bnorth]

Eddie Mathews. His Rookie is a high # 1952 Topps that is also the last card of the set. Making it fairly rare compared to rookies of other HOFers from the 50's. When he retired he was considered the best 3rd baseman to ever play and is still easily top 3 or 4.

Hank Aaron cards are also cheap when he had arguably the best career of anyone to play the game.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I say it every time this comes up. Warren Spahn. Look it up.

[bounce]

Tris Speaker was pretty good, but his name is down the list of baseball greats in most conversations.

[ALBB]

not baseball,...but the all time Hockey great- Gordie Howe..you would think the Babe Ruth of hockey might be higher valued...and that 54 T Howe is not a commonly seen set

[Jason19th]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I say it every time this comes up. Warren Spahn. Look it up.

I think Spahn is an interesting case but he everything going against him for card value
1. Played in small market
2. Funny looking guy who was known as a jokester
3. Level of consistency that lulls you into thinking it’s no big deal what he is doing
4. Played on teams where he was overshadowed by others - Mathews and Aaron
5. Kept playing for so long that a lot of collectors memory of him might be as an old man losing with the giants

My favorite Warren Spahn stat - from Bill James - until 1985 Warren Spahn had more twenty win seasons as a lefty 13 the all of the New York Yankee lefties for the entire existence of the Franchise

[mechanicalman]

Al Simmons could rake, yet I’ve never seen a “Show Your Al Simmons” thread.

[Peter_Spaeth]

At age 42, Spahn was 23-7 2.60.

[perezfan]

I've always felt that Stan Musial Cards are undervalued. One of the all-time greats, yet most of his cards are very affordable. May have been different, had he played in New York.

Also agree with Spahnie.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

Al Simmons could rake, yet I’ve never seen a “Show Your Al Simmons” thread.

It's about time...Al just got his own thread.

Brian

[Jason19th]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

At age 42, Spahn was 23-7 2.60.

While that it is true - I was referring to his age 43 and 44 season where he went 13-29 with a 4.74 era

[Rascal1010]

Billy Williams

[z28jd]

In the Old Judge set, it always surprises me to see Charlie Ferguson go for barely more than common prices.

He died just after his 25th birthday as the 1888 season started, so the OJ cards are late in his life. Ferguson had four straight 21+ win seasons to begin his career (99-64 W/L record). In 1887, he started playing the field more often and hit .337 with 85 RBIs in 72 games, plus he had an above average fielding % at second base. He was a legit two-way star, who died at the start of his prime.

Ferguson was one of the first OJ cards I made sure to get when I started collecting from the set.

[triwak]

Originally Posted by Jason19th

Larry Doby and Monte Irvin were truly great players who seem to get less attentionbecause they were able to play a portion of their Careers in the majors. Both were the equals of players like Cool Papa Bell and Buck Lenard for their Negro League time and both actually had short but dramatic major league time. I think in some ways the major league time makes them lose some of the mythology that surrounds the players who never got a chance. People saw them, but only for the late prime and decline phases of their careers

Both in the Hall but you can get there early cards for almost nothing. Just picked up lower grade 1952 topps of them for about 15 dollars each

+1

[Leon]

Referring to prewar cards, I am biased, and still think Cy Young it underrated in value relative to the other top tier HOF'ers. No doubt that unless the rules change back to the way they were a hundred years ago, and things completely change, he will hold the career wins record for eternity.

[nat]

I'll nominate Eddie Collins. His career was comparable to Nap Lajoie's, but Nap was flashier. Nap won batting titles and slugging titles, whereas Collins was really the quintessential dead ball player. He hit singles, drew walks, and stole bases. But in sum their careers were pretty similar. (Collins actually beats Lajoie in WAR, 124 to 107.) But Collins' cards can't keep up with Nap's.

[Peter_Spaeth]

What I always found interesting about Collins and Cobb, both of whom played not only throughout the dead ball era but also for most of the 1920s, is that their stats stayed very consistent through both eras despite the supposed major change.

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by z28jd

In the Old Judge set, it always surprises me to see Charlie Ferguson go for barely more than common prices.

He died just after his 25th birthday as the 1888 season started, so the OJ cards are late in his life. Ferguson had four straight 21+ win seasons to begin his career (99-64 W/L record). In 1887, he started playing the field more often and hit .337 with 85 RBIs in 72 games, plus he had an above average fielding % at second base. He was a legit two-way star, who died at the start of his prime.

Ferguson was one of the first OJ cards I made sure to get when I started collecting from the set.

Amen to this. I’ve always thought that John Ward was tremendously undervalued. Not only was he a great pitcher who converted himself to a HOF shortstop after his arm went bad, he was one of the top five most influential people on 19th century baseball. In my mind, only Albert Spalding and Harry Wright were more influential.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Not that huge, I don't think. The NBA wasn't that popular in the 70s when the Doctor was operating at top form. Jordan, in part due to the Nike Air Jordan campaign, in part due to the revival of the NBA starting with Bird and Magic, and in part due to his own personality, will, and incomparable talent, became a world-recognized figure.

When Gym class was rained out one day AND the gym wasn't usable for some reason, we watched two NBA highlight films back to back. For a whole hour.
It probably wasn't, but my recollection is that 90% of it was Dr J dunking. Which was great for the first 10 minutes, but got old quick.

Part of it I think is that the style of play in the NBA has changed so much so many times it's become a "today" sort of sport as far as recognition of players from years ago.

[kevinlenane]

Jimmie Foxx - Double X may have broken Ruth's HR record had it not been for a massive dropoff in his early 30s due to personal and/or sinus problems. Had 500 HRs at age 32. Physically he was a specimen in a time when homerun hitters looked like Craig Stadler. He still put up insane numbers and his cards are super affordable given his stature as a hitter...

[GasHouseGang]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I've always felt that Stan Musial Cards are undervalued. One of the all-time greats, yet most of his cards are very affordable. May have been different, had he played in New York.

Also agree with Spahnie.

I agree with you on both Musial and Spahn. Most people have never even heard of Warren Spahn. At least most people have at least heard of "Stan The Man" Musial.

[h2oya311]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I've always felt that Stan Musial Cards are undervalued. One of the all-time greats, yet most of his cards are very affordable. May have been different, had he played in New York.

Also agree with Spahnie.

Agree on Musial, but it's hard to "collect" Musial when he has very few mainstream cards (Topps) during his playing years...and there was that little war that got in the way too.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

Agree on Musial, but it's hard to "collect" Musial when he has very few mainstream cards (Topps) during his playing years...and there was that little war that got in the way too.

Good point...

But his '53 Bowman Color is a very "sexy" looking card. One of my personal faves, FWIW.

Forgot about Jimmie Foxx... that was a good addition as well.

[hysell]

Frank Robinson , never gets or got his do's ! He might be the most under rated player of all time ? If not , for sure in his time ! I know you guys will say others , but I'd say he did not make the top 10 , in most peoples cases ? Hard for me to take , for his stats are right there with most players , won awards & a couple world series also , also was a trend setter , 1st black manger & even hit a HR in his 1st game as one ? Also worked in the MLB office for a few years ? Tough player & not many players can say that , also ?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by steve B

When Gym class was rained out one day AND the gym wasn't usable for some reason, we watched two NBA highlight films back to back. For a whole hour.
It probably wasn't, but my recollection is that 90% of it was Dr J dunking. Which was great for the first 10 minutes, but got old quick.

Part of it I think is that the style of play in the NBA has changed so much so many times it's become a "today" sort of sport as far as recognition of players from years ago.

If you want to see an incredible J highlight watch his final dunk in the 1976 ABA Slam Dunk contest. Mind boggling. Start at 11 24 or so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmLV_TflJK0

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by Leon

Referring to prewar cards, I am biased, and still think Cy Young it underrated in value relative to the other top tier HOF'ers. No doubt that unless the rules change back to the way they were a hundred years ago, and things completely change, he will hold the career wins record for eternity.

Wasn't he named after that award? Strange coincidence.

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by hysell

Frank Robinson , never gets or got his do's ! He might be the most under rated player of all time ? If not , for sure in his time ! I know you guys will say others , but I'd say he did not make the top 10 , in most peoples cases ? Hard for me to take , for his stats are right there with most players , won awards & a couple world series also , also was a trend setter , 1st black manger & even hit a HR in his 1st game as one ? Also worked in the MLB office for a few years ? Tough player & not many players can say that , also ?

I was thinking Robinson as well. He’s more “inner circle” hall of fame than many realize...yet his cards remain pretty reasonable.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If you want to see an incredible J highlight watch his final dunk in the 1976 ABA Slam Dunk contest. Mind boggling. Start at 11 24 or so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmLV_TflJK0

Peter,

Not only the dunks were mind boggling. I was at this game with my dad and a couple of friends and saw it live. Did that just happen? Luckily we were able to see the replays in the suites behind us to confirm we all didn't imagine the same thing.

https://www.nba.com/top-nba-finals-m...-game-4-finals

[orly57]

Ted Williams is certainly not underrated as a player, but his cards are all affordable. I think his rookie card is criminally undervalued.

[topcat61]

There are a few players who fit the bill for me:

Cecil Travis, Bob Feller, Walter French, Charley Berry, Jim Bottomley, Jim Kaat, George Sisler, Sandy Consuegra, Wally Pipp, Vern Stephens, Doc Cramer, Gil Hodges, Dom DiMaggio, Ken Williams, Joe Gordon, Tony Gwynn, Earl Averill, Ted Lyons, Indian Bob Johnson, Wilbur Cooper, Walker Cooper, Bill Freehan, Bob Veach, Dan Quisenberry, Don Mattingly, Frank Robinson, Jake Daubert and Charlie Grimm.

Some of these players are already in the Hall of Fame and many are not, but really what it comes down to is the education of the collector.

I agree that Stan Musial and Frank Robinson's cards are in most cases far cheaper than they should be, but I refer to what I just said about education.

[C-mack]

Definitely feel Tris speaker doesnt get enough love

[TanksAndSpartans]

Originally Posted by topcat61

Walter French, Charley Berry

Curious - because of football or baseball?

[Leon]

Me too says the guy with a nice looking, mid grade, Teddy Ballgame...Have sold a few things lately but Teddy has stayed.

Originally Posted by orly57

Ted Williams is certainly not underrated as a player, but his cards are all affordable. I think his rookie card is criminally undervalued.

[jchcollins]

I'm mainly focused on postwar, so here are my choices for most egregiously undervalued in comparison to the top names (Mantle, Aaron, Clemente, Koufax...):

1. Frank Robinson. Only man to win the MVP in both leagues, power numbers with all of the other contemporaries, Triple Crown winner, and after his career as a player went on to break other barriers as first black manager and executive in a number of areas. Besides his 1957 rookie card, all of his other issues are generally wildly affordable. I picked up a nice upper mid-grade '61 Topps recently for I think less than $20. To me, that's insane - had Frank been a New York Yankee his entire career his cards would be ridiculously expensive.

2. Stan Musial. Will agree that at least in comparison to how I was brought up to think about Stan the Man in the 1980's, he's largely unappreciated today. You used to hear about how Ted Williams was the best hitter in the AL and Stan was the best in the NL, but most of that has gone by the wayside with people in more recent decades preferring to think of Williams as the greatest hitter who ever lived. I get it, I guess - but Stan was the real deal. Another whose cards besides the earliest issues are wildly affordable in comparison to someone like Mantle or Clemente.

3. Roy Campanella. Again, someone you just don't hear about that much anymore as compared to when I started collecting cards in the 1980's. Campy (who likely lost more at the beginning of his career due to the prejudice of the day than he did at the end due to the accident...) is still today routinely rated in the top 5 or so catchers who ever lived by polls taken by Sports Illustrated and other places online. But again cards mostly can be had on the cheap besides his RC.

4. Steve Carlton. In the 1980's many considered Lefty the greatest LHP of all-time. 300 game winner, 4x Cy Young winner, pitching triple crown winner, 2nd only to Ryan during his career on the all-time K list. There was accolade after accolade. Today though you can get a nice Carlton rookie for less than $100. I kind of don't get this one at all, it's like he fell totally off the radar once the Nolan Ryan mania set in for good in the early 1990's.

5. Willie McCovey. Let's face it, in SF with that Giants team, McCovey was a God - maybe even moreso than Willie Mays outside of New York. Yet today he's almost considered a 2nd tier HOF'er. Ask pitchers from back in the day who was the one NL slugger they really didn't want to face? Again, makes little sense to me - but ok.

I could keep going, but will stop with my first 5. Good idea for a thread...

[JackR]

What about Memo Luna? One inning, one game, one loss, one card (‘54B), but perhaps the coolest name in all of baseball...

[jerseygary]

Memo Luna has a great story. If he hadn't blown his arm out the winter before he made the majors 1954 might have been "Memomania" instead of 1981 being "Fernandomania"

I wrote and illustrated a piece on him which you can read Memo Luna: The Story Behind Card 222

His family in Mexico came across it and translated it for Memo. They wrote me a nice note and sent pictures of him signing a drawing I did of him.

[JackR]

What a terrific article on Memo Luna...thanks for sharing it! At a minimum, he deserves his own thread!

[pokerplyr80]

The ones that came to mind when I read the title have already been mentioned, but I would say Frank Robinson, Musial, and Ted Williams. As Orly mentioned the Williams RC in particular has always seemed very undervalued to me. Had that card been in color and as attractive as the 41 I think it would be a much higher priority for collectors.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by JackR

What about Memo Luna? One inning, one game, one loss, one card (‘54B), but perhaps the coolest name in all of baseball...

Memo Luna is an interesting name, but wasn't there a guy with a prewar card or two named Ten Million? That has to be the coolest baseball name.

[Robbie]

Billy Grabarkewitz. Not really. I just like saying the name.

Lots of very good players to borderline Hall of Famers, like Vada Pinson, Tony Oliva, Lou Whitaker, Al Oliver, Reggie Smith, Dave Parker, Luis Tiant, Ted Simmons... are all pretty much "commons."

[Leon]

Hogsett cards should be bigger. Any guy who sells liquor after his playing days are over gets my vote!! He claimed to be 1/32nd Indian on his mother's side too. (wiki)