Negative experience with Billyscards

[JoeDfan]

Recently, I made a deal with Billyscards for the Hanna Ruth bat he had listed here on Net54.
It was kind of an "odd" deal, because I had to wait to pay him like two weeks. But in the end, that deal went ok, and I got the bat just fine. So I have no problem with that. And I LOVE the bat.

But then he had a nice Gehrig photo for sale, and I emailed him to ask about it. We finally made the deal for the photo. He takes down his auction, but said we had to finalize the deal after the weekend.
Then I wait until after the weekend, and no word. So I email to ask about it.
He emails me back:

Sorry for delay. So here is the deal.. ALS and Gehrig hold a special spot with our family and I mentioned to the wife about selling these and she is giving me a hard time (even though the cash sounds nice). I need to work on her a little more but may end up hanging on to these. I’m sorry for misleading but hope you understand.

Ok. Fine, I understand. Some items I have I would have a hard time parting with. That makes sense, even though I am disappointed.

Until today, which is SEVEN DAYS LATER, and he has it RELISTED on eBay for TWICE THE PRICE.

I get it if you don't want to sell something, but as many of you know, I sold some of my stuff to finance the deal. That just feels SMARMY to me to not be enough of a stand up guy to tell me the real truth.

I am not saying he ripped me off, because no money changed hands.
I just guess that Gehrig and ALS holds a special spot with him, UNLESS HE CAN GET MORE MONEY.

I just wanted to let people know my experience, in case they were thinking of doing business with this person.

Since I am still fuming, I guess it is also totally possible that I am in the wrong here (I know, I could have waited to sell my stuff, so that one is on me, not him).
If I am, please feel free to let me know, and maybe I will calm down. Lord knows I have been wrong before! Lol.

[bnorth]

That sucks my friend. I would just add him to your list of people not to deal with and move on. If you don't have a list, make one, stuff shouldn't trump anything.

[bobbyw8469]

Smary move......he sounds like an ass.

[pokerplyr80]

Along the lines with the guy who agreed to sell a 51 Mantle here and then backed out because the one he was buying fell through. Only at least he didn't use his wife as an excuse to Jack up the price. Unless there is another side to this story this guy sounds like someone who should be permanently banned from the BST.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Along the lines with the guy who agreed to sell a 51 Mantle here and then backed out because the one he was buying fell through. Only at least he didn't use his wife as an excuse to Jack up the price. Unless there is another side to this story this guy sounds like someone who should be permanently banned from the BST.

Who did that, I am drawing a blank?

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Who did that, I am drawing a blank?

Gobucsmagic. He had another one listed recently I noticed.

[PolarBear]

Last time I was actively posting here a few years ago here some guy was reverse auctioning a green Cobb, then disappeared when the price went too low.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by PolarBear

Last time I was actively posting here a few years ago here some guy was reverse auctioning a green Cobb, then disappeared when the price went too low.

LOL, I remember that guy. My favorites are the ones that come on here and act like collectors with little knowledge. Then they turn out to be flippers or own card shops.

[Jim65]

Definitely a shitty move.

[Directly]

If the same photo is now listed on Ebay , and you still want the item send him a offer--

[wondo]

Maybe share this on the memorabilia side where more of the audience e is into this stuff?

[pokerplyr80]

I remember that green Cobb too. I don't remember who listed it though.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I remember that green Cobb too. I don't remember who listed it though.

filmmaker I believe.

[Billyscards]

Sometimes things in life happen that throw things off. The original poster didn’t mention that we just completed a transaction. I do apologize for going back on my agreement.

You don’t know what unexpected things are going to happen or what bills will show up in your mailbox.

I emailed him explaining and then got this post. Again, I apologize for any inconvenience.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Billyscards

Sometimes things in life happen that throw things off. The original poster didn’t mention that we just completed a transaction. I do apologize for going back on my agreement.

You don’t know what unexpected things are going to happen or what bills will show up in your mailbox.

I emailed him explaining and then got this post. Again, I apologize for any inconvenience.

Maybe try reading his post. He clearly mentions the bat purchase.

[pokerplyr80]

That is a most curious response. I'm not really sure why you would respond at all if you're not going to address what the OP actually wrote. As bnorth mentioned it's seems you didn't even read the post. Did you read the title only?

[Marchillo]

I guess I’m confused. You decide not to sell the photo (for reasons the OP states) which is fine. But then you have an unexpected bill and you didn’t go back to the OP to complete the sale? Now the photo sits on eBay unsold and assumedly the bill still isn’t paid. Will be curious to see how long it takes the item to sell on eBay.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Maybe they completed a more recent transaction than the bat.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Maybe they completed a more recent transaction than the bat.

No, I am good friends with the OP. I actually bought a awesome Wade Boggs bat from him to help pay for the Ruth bat.

[Billyscards]

I did jump the gun with my posting as I just read my email saying it was “posted”

I’ll own up to the fact that I pulled out of the offer based on personal reasons and then relisted as my situation changed unexpectedly.

I’ve done a lot of dealings on here and apologize for going back on the agreement. Not trying to be malicious or cause harm.

I removed the listing and will just deal with my situation and the photo.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

If it's for sale again why don't you honor your agreement? That's about the only way to come out of this without looking shady.

[Fred]

It sounds like sentimental value has a price these days....

[MULLINS5]

The OP says it was an auction. Where? Why not bid and see what happens? Did you try to get him to end the auction early with a cash offer?

The seller doesn't owe anyone an explanation.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by MULLINS5

The OP says it was an auction. Where? Why not bid and see what happens? Did you try to get him to end the auction early with a cash offer?

The seller doesn't owe anyone an explanation.

If you read the initial thread, that is precisely what happened. There was an auction, there was an offer, the auction got taken down after an agreement, and it then went south. I'd be pissed off too, Particularly if it was then relisted. Not shooting at the seller. Sometimes life happens, although I don't like that it was relisted a week later.

I had a similar thing happen to me, and that was one of the 2 negs I think I have ever given on eBay. Pretty big purchase, which I'm sure he wasn't happy with because he did a poor job of advertising it. So he cancelled it, lied about the reason, and, I'm sure, sold off-line for more. Some people are good for their word, some aren't. It is what it is.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

If you read the initial thread, that is precisely what happened. There was an auction, there was an offer, the auction got taken down after an agreement, and it then went south. I'd be pissed off too, Particularly if it was then relisted. Not shooting at the seller. Sometimes life happens, although I don't like that it was relisted a week later.

I had a similar thing happen to me, and that was one of the 2 negs I think I have ever given on eBay. Pretty big purchase, which I'm sure he wasn't happy with because he did a poor job of advertising it. So he cancelled it, lied about the reason, and, I'm sure, sold off-line for more. Some people are good for their word, some aren't. It is what it is.

Hey Kenny, but chance did you post the item here before you had it in hand? Just one of the caveats of online sales these days. Sad

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by MULLINS5

The OP says it was an auction. Where? Why not bid and see what happens? Did you try to get him to end the auction early with a cash offer?

The seller doesn't owe anyone an explanation.

Are you serious?

[MULLINS5]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

What a really dumb response!

Are you serious?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by MULLINS5

Are you serious?

Yes, I'm serious. You obviously have a reading comprehension problem. Go back and re-read the thread. If you still don't get it, ask a first grader to explain it to you.

[Leon]

I think if someone backs out of a deal on our forum they do owe, at least, an explanation. If it happens too often they won't be here. Stuff does happen and that is why there isn't a 0 tolerance policy. Now, if someone is out any money, that is another story.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Hey Kenny, but chance did you post the item here before you had it in hand? Just one of the caveats of online sales these days. Sad

Yes I did. It was a couple of years ago. I never had it in hand because the seller cancelled the auction and refunded my payment within a day. I'm still pissed about that.

[Republicaninmass]

Saddened, though Not surprised. I had someone I had considered a close friend do the same a few years back

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[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Saddened, though Not surprised. I had someone I had considered a close friend do the same a few years back

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I have sold sooooo many items for a loss it's not even funny. And these are HUGE losses, like $300+ 1954 Bowman Ted Williams.......1933 Sport Kings Babe Didrickson........Super Bowl ticket PSA 10. Every single item got shipped. Did I want to? HECK NO!!! There is something about honoring one's word though.

[Republicaninmass]

Sorry If I wasnt clear, this was after boasting about winning an item, my friend emailed the seller and offered more

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[glynparson]

Originally Posted by aquarian sports cards

if it's for sale again why don't you honor your agreement? That's about the only way to come out of this without looking shady.

this!

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Thanks Glyn, sometimes I wonder if I'm just a voice in the wilderness!

[JoeDfan]

The original deal for the Ruth bat started on the BST section here on Net54.
Although, I also saw it on eBay, so naturally, I figured out who the eBay seller was.
But, we made the deal for the bat via email, and not on eBay. During one of the last emails for the bat, I made a comment to the effect of "love that Gehrig photo"; because I had seen his other eBay items.
We finished the deal for the Ruth bat; and as I said, I was perfectly happy with that.
Then at some point either he or I inquired about the photo comment, we went back and forth on numbers, etc. I thought we had a deal, and he took the eBay listing down.
So, although his items were on eBay, our deals did not originate there, if that makes sense.
But perhaps that is a relevant fact; so I want to make sure my story is transparent.

To Leon's point: I did NOT lose any money.
The ONLY deal we COMPLETED went fine, and he sent the bat right on schedule. So I have no issue with the deal for the Ruth bat.

My issue is that we came to agreement for the photo, then he withdrew, citing it having a "special spot" with the family. Then, one week later, listing in eBay again for double the price.
I think that is just a jerk move.

But again, maybe because I am mad about it, perhaps I am wrong here somewhere. If I am, then for sure, someone tell me, because I would want to know it.

And HOLY COW, I totally didn't mean to start anything here between Mullins and Toppsguy! That was totally not my intention.

Sean

[Peter_Spaeth]

I think you're justified in being pissed. The guy backed out of a deal and in my opinion his conduct does not suggest a legitimate reason for having done so.

I also give you credit for naming the other party. So often guys don't and the information ends up being useless to the Board.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

If it's for sale again why don't you honor your agreement? That's about the only way to come out of this without looking shady.

This is the part of the story not adding up. If you just made a successful deal with a guy then backed out of a second for personal reasons, why not offer him the card before listing it again? I would be pissed if I was the buyer in this situation.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think you're justified in being pissed. The guy backed out of a deal and in my opinion his conduct does not suggest a legitimate reason for having done so.

I also give you credit for naming the other party. So often guys don't and the information ends up being useless to the Board.

What an ironic post, Peter. You claim to know much more information than you’re willing to share about the evils of this hobby, yet you hold back.

Again, I’m on your side, but if you truly want to fight the sh*t, share what you know.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

What an ironic post, Peter. You claim to know much more information than you’re willing to share about the evils of this hobby, yet you hold back.

Again, I’m on your side, but if you truly want to fight the sh*t, share what you know.

The only irony is you implying I am somehow doing less than my best in this effort when as far as I can tell you haven't done a damn thing.

Anyhow, as we discussed the last time you raised this, the people in a position to do something about this know who the card doctors are.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The only irony is you implying I am somehow doing less than my best in this effort when as far as I can tell you haven't done a damn thing.

I respect what you’ve done, but you have the ability to do so much more, but you don’t. You have names, but you won’t reveal them. I don’t have the history and background you do, so my ability to “do a damn thing,” other than make a bunch of noise, which is fu@king fruitless, is limited.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

I respect what you’ve done, but you have the ability to do so much more, but you don’t. You have names, but you won’t reveal them. I don’t have the history and background you do, so my ability to “do a damn thing,” other than make a bunch of noise, which is fu@king fruitless, is limited.

And just what are you or anyone else going to do, Sam, with a list of say 10 card doctors who don't sell directly but consign to auction houses or sell through PWCC or other ebay sellers?

My impression is that nobody, or not many, here listen anyhow, I've cautioned people for years about PWCC and the response largely has been to ignore or mock me. People including yourself I imagine just keep buying and buying and buying. So to what end am I going to name a bunch of names on a public chatboard and thereby expose myself to the risk of retribution from criminals? And make no mistake, these are criminals.

I'll just go about it my way, and sorry if it isn't good enough for you.

[JoeDfan]

Billyscards emailed me and apologized "for the inconvenience caused".

Then he did email again and offer to complete the deal; but I politely declined for two reasons:
1) I feel like I should listen to the advice of my good friends and just move on. If something went wrong during the transaction (and I am not implying that it would), then I feel like that would just be my own fault for sure.
2) He clearly wants more for it than I was willing to pay.

Perhaps my thinking here is wrong, and I should in fact pay when I was the one who complained in the first place. Some advice there would certainly be welcome.
However, I have no doubt he will be able to move the photo quickly if he wants. But just not to me.

In any event, Billyscards, thank you for the Ruth bat. It is one of the capstones of my collection, and I absolutely love it.
I sincerely hope that whatever issues, medical or otherwise, you are facing, they are not serious, and good luck buying/selling/collecting in the future.

Thank you everyone who gave me their opinion/advice. I appreciate it, even if you think I might be wrong (which, as I said, is certainly possible).

Also, I don't get to play in the sandbox of cards that involve PWCC, but I do also appreciate ANYONE who works to keep everything honest.

Sean

[JollyElm]

Class act, JoeD.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I understand where you're coming from, but if he offered to complete the transaction at the agreed upon price I would probably go ahead as he is attempting to do the right thing. Good of you to come on here though and give him a shout out instead of letting everyone think he's completely disreputable. I hope he appreciates that as around here trust is coin of the realm.

[JoeDfan]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I understand where you're coming from, but if he offered to complete the transaction at the agreed upon price I would probably go ahead as he is attempting to do the right thing. Good of you to come on here though and give him a shout out instead of letting everyone think he's completely disreputable. I hope he appreciates that as around here trust is coin of the realm.

That is a great point, and I thought about that for a long time this afternoon. I was really on the fence with it.
Ultimately, I feel like the best thing to do is just acknowledge the gesture, and let it go.
But you might very well be right, and maybe I am wrong with that decision. But I still have my money, and he still has his item. So even if I am wrong, at least everyone still has their stuff.

[pokerplyr80]

He canceled the transaction. You were under no obligation to go through with it after that, and your feeling of apprehension is understandable. It was the right thing to do for the seller to offer you the card at the agreed upon price, even if this happened a little late. It sounds like it would be best for both of you to move on at this point.

[Buythatcard]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I have sold sooooo many items for a loss it's not even funny. And these are HUGE losses, like $300+ 1954 Bowman Ted Williams.......1933 Sport Kings Babe Didrickson........Super Bowl ticket PSA 10. Every single item got shipped. Did I want to? HECK NO!!! There is something about honoring one's word though.

I feel your pain. I also honor all transactions whether I made money or not. I've had buyers who won cards and returned them 30 days later because they got a better deal somewhere else.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

I feel your pain. I also honor all transactions whether I made money or not. I've had buyers who won cards and returned them 30 days later because they got a better deal somewhere else.

And that sucks too.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by JoeDfan

That is a great point, and I thought about that for a long time this afternoon. I was really on the fence with it.
Ultimately, I feel like the best thing to do is just acknowledge the gesture, and let it go.
But you might very well be right, and maybe I am wrong with that decision. But I still have my money, and he still has his item. So even if I am wrong, at least everyone still has their stuff.

I think you handled this in an exemplary fashion. It's perfectly understandable why you didn't want to go another round.